T3G Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 I would be curious to see a cost/benefit analysis to explain why water logged 4471 and 4478 are still (ostensibly) active, while they (allegedly) gave up on 4468. It seems something similar happened to a much older 4206 in 2007 - and that one ran in service for another 8 years afterwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus_7246 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, T3G said: It seems something similar happened to a much older 4206 in 2007 - and that one ran in service for another 8 years afterwards! I don’t think 4206 ever saw service after that. In 2014, when I had done dispatch in duties in streetcars, 4206 was still sidelined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulated Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 53 minutes ago, bus_7246 said: I don’t think 4206 ever saw service after that. In 2014, when I had done dispatch in duties in streetcars, 4206 was still sidelined I was very thorough with photographing the ALRVs while they were active, although I didn't really start doing so until around 2009. 4206 was one of only two I did not get a photo of, so that lends a lot of weight to it never having returned to service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus_7246 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 19 minutes ago, Articulated said: I was very thorough with photographing the ALRVs while they were active, although I didn't really start doing so until around 2009. 4206 was one of only two I did not get a photo of, so that lends a lot of weight to it never having returned to service. 4206 was having repairs finally being done on the car for it to return to service in 2016 or 2017, when someone had ultimately changed their mind on the progress of the repairs. The car was subsequently retired and decommissioned afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3G Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, bus_7246 said: I don’t think 4206 ever saw service after that. In 2014, when I had done dispatch in duties in streetcars, 4206 was still sidelined It definitely ran after 2007. According to my roster notes it last ran in October 2014, which is confirmed by sightings posted on the same thread a few months later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1122 Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 Any sign of 4605? Also, 4604 has been hanging around Russell for weeks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 51 minutes ago, Tom1122 said: Any sign of 4605? Also, 4604 has been hanging around Russell for weeks now. It been over at Russell the last few weeks moving from one spot to another in the service bay like it was doing at the Barns. The 4403 was the first production car that spent over 2 months in the service bay before entering service with 4605 only 4 days short of 2 months being here. Expecting TTC doing a real toothpick look at the car before full production ramp up start for the other 58 and making sure 4606 has all the changes TTC wants before it ship. As to 4471 and 4478, will we every see them again or has TTC written them off already due to the cost to either rebuilt them or have them replace? Was expecting one of them would be the first car to arrived under Alstom name with some changes that TTC most likely wanted change or updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 4468 On 10/5/2023 at 2:12 PM, Xtrazsteve said: 4468 was involved with that overhead fire last year. https://www.cp24.com/news/no-injuries-in-ttc-streetcar-fire-delays-expected-in-west-end-1.6213267 I don't think it ever came back to service after being toasted No sign of it ever running after that. Transsee shows that last run ending at the fire location, a couple of hours before that CP24 report. No runs recorded since: https://www.transsee.ca/trippath?a=ttc&id=764706750 4534 On 10/5/2023 at 1:54 PM, PrimeTio said: 4534 had collision damage Looks like it's last trip was on January 19, 2023. And ended suddenly at Queen and Woodbine (501) 2:50 pm. - https://www.transsee.ca/trippath?a=ttc&id=780169779 I can't see much mention of anything happen, other than a Toronto Fire report 10 minutes later and the TTC Notice. I'd have thought we'd have seen some photos of damage that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3G Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 On 10/5/2023 at 11:03 PM, Tom1122 said: Any sign of 4605? Also, 4604 has been hanging around Russell for weeks now. 4605 is in Toronto. Likely to be unloaded Tuesday or Wednesday. https://www.instagram.com/hopkindesign/?img_index=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 2 hours ago, T3G said: 4605 is in Toronto. Likely to be unloaded Tuesday or Wednesday. https://www.instagram.com/hopkindesign/?img_index=1 It has a trolley pole? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3G Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 Manifestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrazsteve Posted October 9, 2023 Report Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Shaun said: It has a trolley pole? It’s the TTC. What did you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted October 9, 2023 Report Share Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Shaun said: It has a trolley pole? 4604 has it too. At this point it's safe to assume all 60 units of this order will come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 9, 2023 Report Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Orion V said: 4604 has it too. At this point it's safe to assume all 60 units of this order will come with it. Real dumb having it, but I guess TTC thinks the full conversion to pans will not be completed now until 2025 considering it was supposed to be 2019 2 months since 4604 arrived and still not in service and we will see a car 4606 in Dec. 4607 should arrive in Jan to start the 20 cars per year to be deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed T. Posted October 9, 2023 Report Share Posted October 9, 2023 Halton County obviously won't change over from trolley poles. So the TTC is thinking ahead to its donations some time in the 2060s. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted October 9, 2023 Report Share Posted October 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Orion V said: 4604 has it too. At this point it's safe to assume all 60 units of this order will come with it. It's a lot easier to get a lflrv off an insulator if you have the option of using the trolley pole to move it a few feet to get it off the insulator. Without the pole, you have to couple the stuck car to the one behind it, which isn't a 2 minute delay. It may just be a case of someone being afraid to make a decision, or that the extra cars on this order had to be the same exact specs as the original order. With some sections of overhead being hybrid or pole only when the order went through, it was probably safest to bring them here with both pole and panto. If one of those cars happens to be on a hybrid section of overhead and has a panto drop, they can still move it out of the way on pole. Even on a panto only section of overhead, they could walk the car clear of an intersection on pole if they needed to, using radios and a supervisor brave enough to take the responsibility of handling the pole to guide it. They have done that a few times on St Clair to position a car to make coupling quicker: the car being towed has to be pulled down the Davenport hill on Bathurst, it can't be pushed down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttc rider Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 On 10/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, T3G said: 4605 is in Toronto. Likely to be unloaded Tuesday or Wednesday. https://www.instagram.com/hopkindesign/?img_index=1 Thanks for the update. Car 4605 arrived at Lambton Yard yesterday October 8, but as of this evening, October 9, it has yet to be delivered to Hillcrest. Of note, it was defaced with a big graffiti that covers the first two sections of the car (on the side facing away from the photographer in those instagram pictures). It is being delivered using transporter QTTX 132049, the same used to deliver 4604 in August of this year. So it seems QTTX 132049 is the only transporter retrofitted so far for this new round of streetcar deliveries. Perhaps more will be added later, just like it was done in the past. If someone has access to CPKC's railcar tracking system, perhaps we could get more frequent updates on future movements and deliveries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-717 Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 14 hours ago, Ed T. said: Halton County obviously won't change over from trolley poles. So the TTC is thinking ahead to its donations some time in the 2060s. Then they should also spec the OL to use poles instead of pantos, as well as convert line 2 to pole operation as part of its life extension program 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 Not sure where to mention this so I'll put it here. What exactly went wrong with 4468 and 4534 for them to be retired? 4568 was in worst condition after its accident and 4471 4478 were sent out for major repairs after the flood as well an many units being sent back and completely stripped for rewelding so why did they give on 4468 4534? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Toro said: Not sure where to mention this so I'll put it here. What exactly went wrong with 4468 and 4534 for them to be retired? 4568 was in worst condition after its accident and 4471 4478 were sent out for major repairs after the flood as well an many units being sent back and completely stripped for rewelding so why did they give on 4468 4534? Well, here's the thing. At this point, there is zero official indication that those cars have actually been retired. All we have is an unsubstantiated rumour. Should the TTC have actually started to retire some of the cars, the first place it would be noticed is on the Service Summaries. Those fleet lists aren't necessarily completely current as to the date that the report is published, but they are accurate. Dan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 Someone jumped to conclusions and labelled them as RETIRED in the cptdb wiki. Perhaps it should be labelled as INACTIVE. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 Would it have been cheaper to fix the overhead than to equip the new cars with poles? Incompetence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Medic Posted October 11, 2023 Report Share Posted October 11, 2023 13 hours ago, Shaun said: Would it have been cheaper to fix the overhead than to equip the new cars with poles? Incompetence. You, of all people are not qualified to make that assertion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted October 11, 2023 Report Share Posted October 11, 2023 13 hours ago, Shaun said: Would it have been cheaper to fix the overhead than to equip the new cars with poles? Incompetence. Someone in an office somewhere decided to keep them equipped with poles for now, and for the new ones to be delivered with them. You would have to find those people responsible for that decision and ask them why. It's a question a person like Steve Munro could probably investigate if he writes up on the state of the overhead sometime in the future. My speculation has to do with the original order and cost to change specifications on such a contract. It's a lot cheaper IMO to keep that metal pole on the roof, and the associated wiring and relay panel than it would be to have them change the contract to deliver "modified" vehicles. Plus, like I said, the pole is handy to have when one of those things gets stuck on an insulator. Stand near McCaul and Queen eastbound and watch what happens on an average day there, and how the streetcars position themselves. That insulator there is a popular one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 Does anyone know if 4605 has been off loaded yet or has it arrive at Hillcrest at all?? 4604 is now sitting on track 24 as the lead car. It was place there early last night and the first time out in the yard in the last 2+ weeks it been at Russell after been sent over from the Barns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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