Bombardier/Alstom Flexity Deliveries

[ttc rider]

7 hours ago, drum118 said:

Maybe wrong, but looks like 4457 will be next to be off loaded after arriving May 4 in Lambton. 

Can I ask what the basis for that assumption is?

Please don't say it's because you're using nextbus-based applications such as Transsee or Pockettrack and you notice that 4457 is "tracking" at the loading dock at Hillcrest.

I've already explained several times here why cars that are in transit or have otherwise had their GPS units turned off cannot be tracked using those methods.

And in fact, you are wrong.

Car 4452 (not 4457) is the next car to be offloaded, likely tomorrow (i.e. Tuesday) morning. Car 4457 is still at CP's Lambton Yard.

I have been remiss in not reporting that railcar transporter XTTX 142012, carrying car 4452, has been delivered by CP to Hillcrest early Saturday morning - however, car 4452 has yet to be offloaded.

7 hours ago, drum118 said:

4452 racking a lot of time in Lambton since it arrival on March 23

Yes, indeed.

I was checking my records...4452 was loaded up at Hillcrest back on January 12...it arrived back in Toronto after retrofits were completed on March 23...so the entire process took only ten weeks...and then it took approximately eight more weeks for it to get from Lambton Yard to Hillcrest.

2 hours ago, yrt1000 said:

Spotted 4463 on a CP train a few moments ago leaving the CP yard in Scarborough 

Thanks for letting us know. 4463 was picked up from Hillcrest early Saturday and should be on its way back to the plant for retrofits - railcar transporter is ITTX 965335 if anybody wants to track its location.

[ttc rider]

Car 4452 is back on property.

It was unloaded at Hillcrest this morning (i.e. Tuesday, May 17, 2022). 

Car 4400 was used to tow it off railcar transporter XTTX 142012.

To recap, car 4452 had been loaded up for transport to La Pocatiere, QC on Wednesday, January 12, 2022, for a total turnaround time of 125 days, one day short of 18 weeks.

Car 4452 is  likely to return to Leslie tomorrow afternoon (May 18), based on past recent experience.

In turn, car 4464 is off-property as of this morning. It headed to Hillcrest under its own power earlier in the morning, and after car 4452 had come off, car 4400 was used to load car 4464 onto the same transporter (XTTX 142012) for the trip to La Pocatiere, QC.

The last day of service for car 4464 was Saturday, May 7, 2022 on 501 Queen during daytime, and on 504 King in the evening,

[drum118]

15 hours ago, ttc rider said:

Can I ask what the basis for that assumption is?

Please don't say it's because you're using nextbus-based applications such as Transsee or Pockettrack and you notice that 4457 is "tracking" at the loading dock at Hillcrest.

I've already explained several times here why cars that are in transit or have otherwise had their GPS units turned off cannot be tracked using those methods.

And in fact, you are wrong.

Car 4452 (not 4457) is the next car to be offloaded, likely tomorrow (i.e. Tuesday) morning. Car 4457 is still at CP's Lambton Yard.

I have been remiss in not reporting that railcar transporter XTTX 142012, carrying car 4452, has been delivered by CP to Hillcrest early Saturday morning - however, car 4452 has yet to be offloaded.

Yes, indeed.

I was checking my records...4452 was loaded up at Hillcrest back on January 12...it arrived back in Toronto after retrofits were completed on March 23...so the entire process took only ten weeks...and then it took approximately eight more weeks for it to get from Lambton Yard to Hillcrest.

Thanks for letting us know. 4463 was picked up from Hillcrest early Saturday and should be on its way back to the plant for retrofits - railcar transporter is ITTX 965335 if anybody wants to track its location.

Na, it was a 50-50 shot based on past moves with the first car remaining the last car to be off loaded. Nice to see it was wrong. 

2 more to be ship and will be done once 4458 is return with 4466 been ship the first week of June.

Don't use Nextbus for tracking cars.

Thanks for the update

[81-717]

What's the best way to catch one of those trams being transported by CP rail? Seems VERY hit & miss, don't know how @ttc rider always manages to catch most if not all of those sightings. Is there a specific train ID that usually takes them?

Edited May 18, 2022 by 81-717

[John Oke]

9 hours ago, 81-717 said:

What's the best way to catch one of those trams being transported by CP rail? Seems VERY hit & miss, don't know how @ttc rider always manages to catch most if not all of those sightings. Is there a specific train ID that usually takes them?

By luck I saw one on the Belleville sub at a park in Whitby once 

[ttc rider]

Railcar transporter XTTX 142012, carrying car 4464, has been picked up by CP from Hillcrest today (Saturday, May 21), and it is now at Lambton Yard.

In turn, CP has delivered railcar transporter XTTX 142489, carrying car 4457 to Hillcrest this afternoon.

Car 4457 to be unloaded next week.

[drum118]

May 24

4457 has been off loaded

I assuming 4464 has taken 4457 spot on the flat leaving 2 more car to be ship

[ttc rider]

9 hours ago, drum118 said:

May 24

4457 has been off loaded

That is correct!

Car 4457 is back on property.

It was unloaded at Hillcrest this morning (i.e. Tuesday, May 24, 2022). 

Car 4424 was used to tow it off railcar transporter XTTX 142489.

To recap, car 4457 had been loaded up for transport to La Pocatiere, QC on Tuesday, February 22, 2022, for a total turnaround time of exactly 13 weeks or 91 days.

Car 4457 is  likely to return to Leslie tomorrow afternoon (May 25), based on past recent experience.

9 hours ago, drum118 said:

I assuming 4464 has taken 4457 spot on the flat leaving 2 more car to be ship

That is incorrect - 4464 had left the property last week, after it was swapped last Tuesday with car 4452. Check back this thread - I have reported this last week.

The car that is off-property as of this morning (May 24) is 4465.

It headed to Hillcrest under its own power earlier in the morning, and after car 4457 had come off, car 4424 was used to load car 4465 onto the same transporter (XTTX 142489) for the trip to La Pocatiere, QC.

The last day of service for car 4465 was Tuesday, May 17, 2022 on 503 Kingston Road.

Therefore, if only the first 67 cars require retrofits, this only leaves one car (4466) that needs to be shipped off property.

[nfitz]

2 hours ago, ttc rider said:

Therefore, if only the first 67 cars require retrofits, this only leaves one car (4466) that needs to be shipped off property.

If.

When TTC mentioned the 67 (of 89) streetcars in October 2018, did it include prototype 4401, which had  only been sent to TTC as a prototype, and had been previously returned to Bombardier for completion in Spring 2018?

4400 first entered TTC service in 2014, with 4402 in in 2016. But 4401 first entered service in 2020.

[T3G]

18 minutes ago, nfitz said:

If.

When TTC mentioned the 67 (of 89) streetcars in October 2018, did it include prototype 4401, which had  only been sent to TTC as a prototype, and had been previously returned to Bombardier for completion in Spring 2018?

4400 first entered TTC service in 2014, with 4402 in in 2016. But 4401 first entered service in 2020.

4401 was shipped from La Pocatiere to Thunder Bay in May 2019, so... I hope so!

[nfitz]

15 hours ago, T3G said:

4401 was shipped from La Pocatiere to Thunder Bay in May 2019, so... I hope so!

Oh, I'm sure it's been fixed - but not technically warranty work, as it had never been completed. Did TTC include it in their count. I could go both ways on that.

I wonder if there are more recent vehicles that need warranty work.

[ttc rider]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:36 PM, nfitz said:

If.

When TTC mentioned the 67 (of 89) streetcars in October 2018, did it include prototype 4401, which had  only been sent to TTC as a prototype, and had been previously returned to Bombardier for completion in Spring 2018?

That's a good point and I have been wondering about it, too.

When 4401 left TTC property in May 2018, it was first sent to La Pocatiere (i.e. to the same location that the production cars were later sent for welding repairs).

It took close to one year for the work in La Pocatiere to be completed before 4401 was sent from there straight to Thunder Bay for final completion to production car standards.

The issue of the welding defects in the first 67 streetcars was first made public in early July 2018 (not October 2018), so less than two months after 4401 had been sent to La Pocatiere.

Regardless, we will find out very soon if 4401 was included in the total of 67 cars requiring welding repairs (as it was made public in July 2018), considering the recent turnaround times that we've seen,

[smallspy]

21 hours ago, ttc rider said:

That's a good point and I have been wondering about it, too.

When 4401 left TTC property in May 2018, it was first sent to La Pocatiere (i.e. to the same location that the production cars were later sent for welding repairs).

It took close to one year for the work in La Pocatiere to be completed before 4401 was sent from there straight to Thunder Bay for final completion to production car standards.

The issue of the welding defects in the first 67 streetcars was first made public in early July 2018 (not October 2018), so less than two months after 4401 had been sent to La Pocatiere.

Regardless, we will find out very soon if 4401 was included in the total of 67 cars requiring welding repairs (as it was made public in July 2018), considering the recent turnaround times that we've seen,

Another thing to keep in mind.....

 

Although it was announced in July that the cars were going to have to go back for remedial work, it had been known for much longer. There were rumours going around as early as December 2017 that the cars were going to have to be shipped out for some level of work to be covered under the manufacturer's warranty, although it didn't seem to be known just how bad the problem was.

 

Although I've never been able to get any indication from within the TTC as to whether 4401 got this work, I think it's fair to assume considering the timelines - and the fact that it went to La Pocatière for what seemed to be an extended period of time - that it did its frames redone.

 

Dan

[drum118]

4452 has reenter service on 512 after arriving May 10

As for 4464 error, I thought I fixed it to 4465 as I did else where.

From what I have been told, 4401 welds have been fixed like all the other cars that have been shipped La Pocatiere.  The reason it took so long before being shipped to Thunder Bay, a full inspection was done on the car as well the weld to make sure there were no other things to be fix under warranty work. 

Since 4401 was the first car to see welds fix, various option/method were looked at to see which was the best way to move forward on the other 66 cars as well make sure staff was doing the welding correctly. Aluminum welding is a lot different than steel or stainless steel welding that not every welder have the skill to do 2 or 3 methods, let alone aluminum.

[Tom1122]

4465 is still waiting to be picked up.

[drum118]

4458 is at the dock to be off loaded.

Another car in Lambton yard at the west end of the yard, but can't see the number as behind other cars. Could be 4465 or another car.

4466 should be the last car to be ship to QC after it replace 4458 spot on the flat.

[ttc rider]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:49 PM, Tom1122 said:

4465 is still waiting to be picked up.

4465 was only picked up from Hillcrest on Saturday night, almost two weeks after it had been loaded up.

It is now at Lambton yard, having been marshalled into a freight train, awaiting departure.

Railcar transporter is XTTX 142489, if anyone wants to track its location.

6 hours ago, drum118 said:

4458 is at the dock to be off loaded.

Another car in Lambton yard at the west end of the yard, but can't see the number as behind other cars. Could be 4465 or another car.

That's correct!

Transporter JTTX 604594, carrying car 4458, was dropped off at the Hillcrest siding after XTTX 142489 had been picked up.

Car 4458 to be unloaded this week.

As of this evening, 4465 is still at Lambton yard - see above.

[drum118]

4458 has been off loaded and 4466 has taken its spot on the flat. Should be in Leslie Yard on Wed.

Unless things have change, 4466 is the last car to be ship to QC. If short turn around remain for 4466, it should be back early Sept and reenter service either by the end of Sept or early Oct.

This well close the book for the weld issue.

Now we set back and wait for the return of 4471 and 4478 that are still in TB that have been off TTC property close to 1300 days. At the same time, we can look forward to the deliveries of 4604-4664 starting late 2023

 

[ttc rider]

3 hours ago, drum118 said:

4458 has been off loaded and 4466 has taken its spot on the flat.

You are correct in that car 4458 is back on property as of this morning (Tuesday, June 7, 2022). 

Car 4574 was used to tow car 4458 off railcar transporter JTTX 604594.

To recap, car 4458 had been loaded up for transport to La Pocatiere, QC on Tuesday, March 1, 2022, for a total turnaround time of exactly 14 weeks or 98 days.

Car 4458 is  likely to return to Leslie tomorrow afternoon (June 8), based on past recent experience.

You are incorrect about car 4466.

Car 4466 is still on TTC property, being used as a training car today.

No car was swapped at Hillcrest after 4458 had been unloaded this morning.

[drum118]

3 hours ago, ttc rider said:

You are correct in that car 4458 is back on property as of this morning (Tuesday, June 7, 2022). 

Car 4574 was used to tow car 4458 off railcar transporter JTTX 604594.

To recap, car 4458 had been loaded up for transport to La Pocatiere, QC on Tuesday, March 1, 2022, for a total turnaround time of exactly 14 weeks or 98 days.

Car 4458 is  likely to return to Leslie tomorrow afternoon (June 8), based on past recent experience.

You are incorrect about car 4466.

Car 4466 is still on TTC property, being used as a training car today.

No car was swapped at Hillcrest after 4458 had been unloaded this morning.

Thanks.

I assume 4466 was on site like the others and never check it. Since this is supposed to be last one unless things have change, 4466 will be place on the flat at some point.

4459 could be in Toronto this week or next if the 70 plus days is kept subject to CP timeframe for movement. 4460 is about 2 weeks behind 4459

[Gil]

15 hours ago, drum118 said:

...

4459 could be in Toronto this week or next if the 70 plus days is kept subject to CP timeframe for movement. 4460 is about 2 weeks behind 4459

I spotted 4459 being brought into Lambton a few minutes ago on my commute. It was still wrapped in an ad, I wonder how that works if the vehicle carrying the ad is out of service for an extended period of time?  Does the time out of service get added onto the end of the contract period for the ad?

[drum118]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:30 AM, Gil said:

I spotted 4459 being brought into Lambton a few minutes ago on my commute. It was still wrapped in an ad, I wonder how that works if the vehicle carrying the ad is out of service for an extended period of time?  Does the time out of service get added onto the end of the contract period for the ad?

Hard to say when 4459 will be off loaded as 4466 has been in the service bay the last few day. It could be next week if 4466 is loaded and CP Swap cars or the following week. Then, 4466 could not be going to QC and only the flats being remove to place 4459. Time will tell.

[drum118]

4457 has reenter service on 501 after arriving in Lambton May 4th and off loaded May 24

Looks like 4466 still in the service bay

[T15111]

4465 is the last car they are sending. 

4491 still waiting for panto parts

4488 newest car with bus fabric seats

 

[Orion V]

9 hours ago, T15111 said:

4465 is the last car they are sending. 

4491 still waiting for panto parts

4488 newest car with bus fabric seats

 

Would 4466 had its retrofits done back in 2018 since it came with the broken trolley pole and had to be sent back right away. Maybe it became the first car they did the retro?