GO Transit

[Articulated]

26 minutes ago, FlyerD901 said:

It's probably been mentioned already so I apologize in advance. Are there no Go buses on order currently? Or is there plans relatively soon?

No current orders on the books, as far as I'm aware or has been announced.

[Shaun]

6 hours ago, Articulated said:

No current orders on the books, as far as I'm aware or has been announced.

I'm surprised that they are fixing the MCI's to keep them in service. I guess they require them for places DD bus cant run or for lower ridership routes. 

But considering they had to cut Beaverton to serve that new route from Pickering to Square one through the airport, either they don't have enough equipment or drivers or both. 

[Articulated]

43 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I'm surprised that they are fixing the MCI's to keep them in service. I guess they require them for places DD bus cant run or for lower ridership routes. 

But considering they had to cut Beaverton to serve that new route from Pickering to Square one through the airport, either they don't have enough equipment or drivers or both. 

The service cuts that resulted in the elimination of service to Beaverton was a purely political decision and related to operating budget. It had nothing to do with availability of equipment. (Route 81 used a maximum of 1 bus, that is within the rounding error of GO's fleet).

Combining the 34 and 94 into one route did not save what you might think. While there may have been some peak hour savings, the new 94 had a service increase to now operate hourly service, 24 hours a day (which requires 4 buses), while the 34 was running every 2 hours with 1 bus during the evening/overnight. Budget-wise, I'd imagine it was somewhat of a wash.

There are very few places on GO's network that are not cleared for DDS buses; namely Bolton (38) and Orangeville (37), which were never cleared primarily as ridership does not warrant the use of higher capacity buses. But the reason the MCIs are hanging around is purely because GO has no new equipment to replace them. Given that the MCIs comprises roughly 35-40% of GO's current fleet, retiring those buses without replacement would involve significant service reductions.

[FlyerD901]

8 hours ago, Articulated said:

No current orders on the books, as far as I'm aware or has been announced.

If they do get new buses I wonder if they'll get the new D45 CRT LE buses. I know it was mentioned that apparently Go wasn't to keen on them. But things can change.

As a tall person, I hope they go back to MCI instead of continuing with the DDs. Or even Prevo, which is a stretch. 

 

[Doppelkupplung]

I believe I heard that GO is not super happy about the performance of the DDs? 

[Gil]

An investigative report by the CBC looks into inspection quotas for fare evasion: Ontario transit service wants inspectors to fine 6,000 riders a month for fare evasion

The article goes into concerns about racial profiling.  The inspectors check ALL riders, so I don't know where the bias comes in.  Metrolinx has implemented a sliding scale for fines related to fare evasion.  From what I've seen of fare evaders caught their name and/or PRESTO account are flagged as ID is also requested in order to issue the fine.  Subsequent fare evasions will trigger higher fines.  The only racial profiling that can be done that I've seen is letting the offender off with a warning instead of a fine, but if there's a quota it would discourage that practice.

The possible perceived racial profiling may stem from which lines are seeing the inspections.  The lines with the most inspections are by their nature the ones with the most service: Lakeshore East and West and Kitchener.

I really would like to see more regular inspections of train trips as I do see several people who ride without paying, even bragging about it.  I do like the procedure used on the Long Island Railroad where fares are checked repeatedly on a trip.  Instead of a fine, you are simply charged a higher fare for paying on board the train instead of pre-purchasing their tickets at the station or online.  A farecard like PRESTO doesn't currently exist for LIRR which would make paying fares quicker for the inspector.  I don't know which concept generates more revenue: sporadic inspection with fines or regular inspection with higher fares collected.

[nfitz]

I'd think that if you were going to get checked and fail, that you wouldn't "find" your Presto card. As then there's little they can do short of bringing in reinforcements.

[Gil]

4 hours ago, nfitz said:

I'd think that if you were going to get checked and fail, that you wouldn't "find" your Presto card. As then there's little they can do short of bringing in reinforcements.

If you can't "find" your PRESTO card it's lack of proof of payment, hence liable for a fine.  They'll ask for ID to be able to write up the fine for you to pay.  They can probably cross-reference it with the registered PRESTO cards and see if you have indeed paid or simply not the infraction on your card for the next time you can't "find" it.  Unless you plan on moving, changing your ID then travelling without tapping your PRESTO card until you get caught, which seems like a bigger headache just to evade your fare!

[nfitz]

7 hours ago, Gil said:

If you can't "find" your PRESTO card it's lack of proof of payment, hence liable for a fine.  They'll ask for ID to be able to write up the fine for you to pay.  They can probably cross-reference it with the registered PRESTO cards and see if you have indeed paid or simply not the infraction on your card for the next time you can't "find" it.  Unless you plan on moving, changing your ID then travelling without tapping your PRESTO card until you get caught, which seems like a bigger headache just to evade your fare!

Except they can't force you to show them ID or arrest you, without bringing in bigger guns. 

[smallspy]

59 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Except they can't force you to show them ID or arrest you, without bringing in bigger guns. 

Please let us know how it goes when you give it a try next.

 

Dan

[3302]

Out of curiosity, what are the low ridership routes GO currently has? I wonder if they begin doing more radical services (like route 17) would ridership increase people to use GO

[nfitz]

10 hours ago, smallspy said:

Please let us know how it goes when you give it a try next.

You hear reports about this all the time.

Still, when I've been caught with my pass I've taken my lumps, and gotten off and identified myself, so I can be written up. So I won't be testing it personally. I save that for when I'm heckling them for going after someone in need.

(for the record, half-way through the ticket, I found my pass ... it was in the don't have to tap era, so I thought I'd left it at home.

[KawarthaTransiteer]

7 hours ago, 3302 said:

Out of curiosity, what are the low ridership routes GO currently has? I wonder if they begin doing more radical services (like route 17) would ridership increase people to use GO

Hard to say what routes have low ridership since they don't publish ridership numbers. Routes 38 Bolton/Malton and 67 Keswick/North York are likely contenders since they only run during weekday rush hour.

[T3G]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:52 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

I believe I heard that GO is not super happy about the performance of the DDs? 

From a passenger perspective, they are terrible. Probably the worst transit buses I have ever ridden on.

 

[G.A]

2568 is wrapped for the holidays. It is in a ginger bread design for Kids GO Free. Currently in the Niagara Falls Parade

[GTAmissions1]

Go Transit has eliminated the weekend pass which was $15 and covered both Saturday and Sunday. For long weekends where the holiday falls on Friday or Monday, then it would cover the additional day. 

If the weekend pass still existed until the end of the year, it would have covered from 3 AM December 23rd until 3 AM December 27th or technically 4 days for $15. 

The weekend day pass for $10 valid on Saturday, Sunday and holidays is still available.

Final comments:

Go Transit did shift a few months ago instead of passes expiring a year after purchase, it shifted to one week after purchase. Usually, most people would buy on the day they need it and activate it before boarding a bus or train accounting for the 5 minute activation timer. 

Plus most people prefer opting for one-day in case they don't need to use it for the second day for an additional $5. 

Both passes and the weekday group pass products are good systemwide. You only have to provide a start and end destination since Go Transit is fare by distance. 

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

20 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit has eliminated the weekend pass which was $15 and covered both Saturday and Sunday. For long weekends where the holiday falls on Friday or Monday, then it would cover the additional day. 

If the weekend pass still existed until the end of the year, it would have covered from 3 AM December 23rd until 3 AM December 27th or technically 4 days for $15. 

The weekend day pass for $10 valid on Saturday, Sunday and holidays is still available.

Final comments:

Go Transit did shift a few months ago instead of passes expiring a year after purchase, it shifted to one week after purchase. Usually, most people would buy on the day they need it and activate it before boarding a bus or train accounting for the 5 minute activation timer. 

Plus most people prefer opting for one-day in case they don't need to use it for the second day for an additional $5. 

Both passes and the weekday group pass products are good systemwide. You only have to provide a start and end destination since Go Transit is fare by distance. 

I've been using the one-day (24 hour) weekend GO Transit pass for a while now (though I still use a PRESTO Card on many occasions) and I've been using that pass for my GO Train trips to/from the Union Station, where I connect to the TTC (with a separate fare) to College Stations where I went to an E-Sports event at a venue where the Maple Leafs used to play (though the building is now owned by Toronto Metro(?) University).

The same case is true when I use the pass for my trips on the train to/from the Exhibition GO Train station when the CNE was in season.

[Gil]

23 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit has eliminated the weekend pass which was $15 and covered both Saturday and Sunday. For long weekends where the holiday falls on Friday or Monday, then it would cover the additional day. 

If the weekend pass still existed until the end of the year, it would have covered from 3 AM December 23rd until 3 AM December 27th or technically 4 days for $15. 

The weekend day pass for $10 valid on Saturday, Sunday and holidays is still available.

Final comments:

Go Transit did shift a few months ago instead of passes expiring a year after purchase, it shifted to one week after purchase. Usually, most people would buy on the day they need it and activate it before boarding a bus or train accounting for the 5 minute activation timer. 

Plus most people prefer opting for one-day in case they don't need to use it for the second day for an additional $5. 

Both passes and the weekday group pass products are good systemwide. You only have to provide a start and end destination since Go Transit is fare by distance. 

Was there any indication on why the weekend pass was being discontinued?  It was great if you happen to work on weekends/holidays and needed to take GO.  Or it gave you the flexibility of say an overnight trip to Niagara Falls (buying two single-day weekend passes now is only marginally cheaper than paying a regular PRESTO fare).  The one tradeoff with using it to commute was that the co-fare wasn't included.  GO slashing service on the 21B branch to hourly meant either waiting for the bus/train or taking the 21C branch which runs every 30 minutes (most of the day) in tandem with the GO Train schedule.

[GTAmissions1]

3 minutes ago, Gil said:

Was there any indication on why the weekend pass was being discontinued?  It was great if you happen to work on weekends/holidays and needed to take GO.  Or it gave you the flexibility of say an overnight trip to Niagara Falls (buying two single-day weekend passes now is only marginally cheaper than paying a regular PRESTO fare).  The one tradeoff with using it to commute was that the co-fare wasn't included.  GO slashing service on the 21B branch to hourly meant either waiting for the bus/train or taking the 21C branch which runs every 30 minutes (most of the day) in tandem with the GO Train schedule.

No announcement was given. Only noticed when checking the website to purchase e-ticket passes, the weekend pass option was removed and only the one day option exists. 

Go Transit claims that there was lower uptake for the weekend pass with most people buying the one day option. I do agree that it gave a lot more flexibility for an overnight in Niagara Falls for example. Long weekends gave an additional day which gives more time to travel around without needing to purchase another day pass. 

Weekend ridership is a lot higher than pre-pandemic with the weekend pass products from the weekend pass products. Paying a fixed rate to travel anywhere along the Go Transit network depending on where you are looking to go. 

[Gil]

The death spiral for the 21 MILTON appears to be ongoing with the next round of Service Changes effective December 2 (it's the only one seeing permanent service reductions while the other routes are only seeing seasonal service reductions):

Service adjustments for Milton customers.
If you're travelling eastbound to Union Station: 

Two additional weekday early morning route 21 trips will travel from Milton all the way to Union Station Bus Terminal. 
GO Transit is operating additional GO Bus Route 27A service between Milton and Meadowvale GO. From this route, you can also connect to TTC Line 1 service at Yorkdale Bus Terminal and Finch Bus Terminal. 

In response to changing customer patterns on GO Bus Route 21, service frequency on this route has been adjusted. 

On weekdays: 

Most 21A trips between Oakville and Milton will now run hourly instead of every 30 minutes.  

On weekday evenings: 

21B trips between Clarkson and Lisgar GO will run hourly instead of every 30 minutes.  
On weekends: 

21B service will run hourly instead of every 30 minutes. 
Most 21C trips between Port Credit and Erindale GO on weekdays and weekends will run hourly instead of every 30 minutes. 

Check schedules before you travel. 

You can visit Triplinx.ca to plan your trip and understand your travel options.  

Milton Transit also offers on-demand transit options, with information available on their website. 

Local transit is free for riders connecting to and from GO Transit on municipal transit systems with GO Transit co-fare agreements. Participating agencies include Durham Region Transit, Milton Transit, Grand River Transit, Guelph Transit, Oakville Transit, MiWay, Brampton Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Bradford West Gwillimbury Transit, Burlington Transit and York Region Transit, and Barrie Transit.  

 

When direct bus service to Union Station was cut and restructured to feed into the Lakeshore West line travel time in some cases doubled (assuming no significant traffic on the Gardiner) on top of frequencies dropping to every 30 minutes to match the GO Train service from 15- (immediately before and after rush hour) to 20- (weekend) minute service.  People likely migrated to other services or returned to driving, further eroding the ridership resulting in additional reductions in frequency.  I thought it odd that they would actually CUT service in the lead up to the start of the school year.  That likely didn't get them many new passengers willing to try out the service for the first time.

I get that they were trying to mitigate delays from traffic on the Gardiner and in and around the USBT, but the route restructuring came at the expense of convenience and frequency.  Once the co-fare with the TTC kicks in there will either be another round of service adjustments or perhaps some restructuring to connect at Kipling.  Hopefully with the Province taking over the Gardiner and DVP (Will they become extensions of the QEW and 404?  The exit numbering seems to suggest that.) they can put in some HOV lanes to try and manage some of the traffic.

The Milton GO Line is likely to be one of the last ones to get all day/2-way service given its importance to CP without some significant investment in adding trackage to the the corridor.  Given that it cuts across a large portion of Mississauga I know there has been a push to build the Missing Link freight corridor along the 407 in order to shift freight traffic for more passenger rail service.  Between building a new rail line from scratch and widening an existing corridor to accommodate GO Trains I'm not sure which would be cheaper and who would be left footing the bill.  

[3302]

I'm not sure if this is a rumour or not, is Hamilton GO closing or being moved to West Harbour to make better connections with the Bus and Train. 

[brianc1981]

1 hour ago, 3302 said:

I'm not sure if this is a rumour or not, is Hamilton GO closing or being moved to West Harbour to make better connections with the Bus and Train. 

The station itself will still operate the rush hour train service. That part will not change. As for the bus service, I believe the plan in the future is when the Hamilton LRT is running and the bus service is changed and modified, the bus routes that service the GO station will be modified to stop near the LRT stations. The McNabb (or whatever it's called now) terminal is also going to be closed as most of the bus routes will be modified to stop at different LRT stations. So that means the Hamilton buses will be out of the GO station. 

The talk is that once the Confederation GO station is running and the through track is built at West Harbour, that some of the GO bus routes will be cancelled or modified. I have heard the 18 that goes to Aldershot will stop running, rumour is the 16 might be modified as well. The 40, 41, and 47 are possibly going to run to West Harbour instead of the Hamilton GO centre. I heard the 17 will be moved to Confederation or shortened to Aldershot. 

All of what I am mentioning here is just based on conversations I have had with people that work for GO or HSR. Nothing official. But these changes would make sense. 

[TheAverageJoe]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:07 AM, nfitz said:

Except they can't force you to show them ID or arrest you, without bringing in bigger guns. 

I seen the special constables carry people off the train

[nfitz]

On 12/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, TheAverageJoe said:

I seen the special constables carry people off the train

Exactly. The bigger guns. But not for inspectors

[TheAverageJoe]

6 hours ago, nfitz said:

Exactly. The bigger guns. But not far inspectors

Special constables are usually not more then a station or 2 away as they are well spaced out in the system.

6 hours ago, nfitz said:

Exactly. The bigger guns. But not far inspectors