Ontario Line (formerly Downtown Relief Line)

[Robert Lubinski]

They do bring out a few trains for the morning and afternoon rush from davisville, (>3) but there is always yard and supervisory staff involved.

Four trains run into Davisville after the AM peak, and the same four come out for the PM peak. There are additional trains stored overnight for the opening of service and a small number that come in after the PM peak, but none of these include the gap extras.

[6688]

To most passengers, walking down the platform is more like exercise than courtesy.

And for me, it means a less crowded car. Plus a 95% chance that I'll actually get on the train in rush hour. Let the other people stay at the north end of the platform.

With the TRs running fairly regular service nowadays, I'm surprised that passenger behaviour hasn't changed much to reflect the usability of the open gangway. I'm not sure if that has to do with the fact that not every run is a TR, or if the general public just takes much longer to catch on.

[Bus_Medic]

Walking is effort. People are lazy.

[2044]

The Commission will be discussing the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion at their meeting on October 24. The final report is available here:

[pccstreetcar4549]

And for me, it means a less crowded car. Plus a 95% chance that I'll actually get on the train in rush hour. Let the other people stay at the north end of the platform.

With the TRs running fairly regular service nowadays, I'm surprised that passenger behaviour hasn't changed much to reflect the usability of the open gangway. I'm not sure if that has to do with the fact that not every run is a TR, or if the general public just takes much longer to catch on.

heres the thing, ive only walked a TR from one end to other 1-2 times, the rest of the time i get in on one car and stay in the car, maybe because im used to that in the older cars where walking between cars wasnt possible and dont forget the t-1s arent going anywhere (other than shifting onto the BD over time)

[Tramguy]

Simplistic as it might seem, I recall years ago flexible working hours was a partial solution.

[pc8556]

heres the thing, ive only walked a TR from one end to other 1-2 times, the rest of the time i get in on one car and stay in the car, maybe because im used to that in the older cars where walking between cars wasnt possible and dont forget the t-1s arent going anywhere (other than shifting onto the BD over time)

People have a hard time changing. Very few even read the bus signs, they just get on where they are used. Also most of the time I have ridden TR's it is really difficult to walk the length..people,legs,bags, the odd standee or rather lots of standees plus trying to hang on around curves etc. Not the easiest of missions............

[Ed T.]

People have a hard time changing. Very few even read the bus signs, they just get on where they are used. Also most of the time I have ridden TR's it is really difficult to walk the length..people,legs,bags, the odd standee or rather lots of standees plus trying to hang on around curves etc. Not the easiest of missions............

I've done it a couple of times on uncrowded trains. I do agree that, when you're packed in at the crowded end of the train, it's almost impossible to make it to the other end--even assuming that it's not crowded either. (Unlike ALRVs or I guess high-floor buses, "there's space at the back" isn't a foolproof principle.)

It's quite amazing just how long these trains are when you walk them end-to-end!

By the way, Santiago Chile also has similar open-gangway cars (on at least one metro line), and while my experience riding these was very, very limited, I didn't see a whole lot of load-balancing movement there either.

Simplistic as it might seem, I recall years ago flexible working hours was a partial solution.

Years ago, sure. But off-peak riding is going up at least as fast as peak riding. I expect to have to stand on the lower reaches of the Yonge line, or west on Bloor out of Yonge, even at 8 PM. You'd have to put people on the graveyard shift....but wait, the Blue Night buses are often crush-loaded too!

[skyfirenet]

In case you missed your daily facepalm:

Fords put a Scarborough subway extension ahead of Downtown Relief Line

[shambala]

In case you missed your daily facepalm:

Fords put a Scarborough subway extension ahead of Downtown Relief Line

Yes, cause it's been a while since we had a pissing contest between these two.

[FlyerD901]

Ford is just getting ready for next year.To him its a way to get Scarborough votes.

[skyfirenet]

One has to wonder just how badly he thinks of the people of Etobicoke. I mean, the DRL west is less important than the DRL east segment. However, it still would be far more useful to them than the Sheppard line.

[Tramway]

Ford is just getting ready for next year.To him its a way to get Scarborough votes.

At the expense of votes in the rest of the city, apparently.

http://www.forumresearch.com/forms/News%20Archives/News%20Releases/67768_TO_-_Feeling_Congested_%28Forum_Research%29_%2820130225%29.pdf (Scroll down to page 14)

[38 Highland Creek]

In case you missed your daily facepalm:

Fords put a Scarborough subway extension ahead of Downtown Relief Line

That shoulda happened a decade ago when stickers for "Support The Scarborough Subway" went up. Or even three decades ago when the 2 Bloor-Danforth line got extended to Kennedy on the east side and Kipling on the west side in 1980.

[shambala]

That shoulda happened a decade ago when stickers for "Support The Scarborough Subway" went up. Or even three decades ago when the 2 Bloor-Danforth line got extended to Kennedy on the east side and Kipling on the west side in 1980.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Sheesh, We get it already. You're preaching to the choir.

[collegekid13]

Very good update on the DRL (including an interview with Andrew King, the TTC's DRL public relations officer)

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2013/04/ttc-narrows-down-drl-subway-route-through-torontos-core

[Articulated]

Very good update on the DRL (including an interview with Andrew King, the TTC's DRL public relations officer)

http://urbantoronto....h-torontos-core

Notice the date of the posting, and the fact that (Saint) Andrew King just happens to be the same as the two stations the DRL would connect to. It's actually a well thought out plan and a decent job at an April Fool's joke, although the names used seem to give it away pretty easily.

[Orion9131]

I thought Andrew Bay was the TTC DRL Public relations officer?

[collegekid13]

Notice the date of the posting, and the fact that (Saint) Andrew King just happens to be the same as the two stations the DRL would connect to. It's actually a well thought out plan and a decent job at an April Fool's joke, although the names used seem to give it away pretty easily.

I know, still funny (sad.)

[rollsign29]

I know the guy that made the article and maps. He even fooled me!

[Kenster102.5]

Hey what would happen to the PATH system under places like TD Centre and Commerce Court if they were to build? That was well thought out joke.

[Gil]

Hey what would happen to the PATH system under places like TD Centre and Commerce Court if they were to build? That was well thought out joke.

The connecting sections directly under the street aren't lined with shops. They're simply connecting tunnels. They're also pretty shallow, so if a subway line were built along say King or Queen Streets, they'd probably run beneath them. Keep in mind they do also have to cross the Yonge and University lines. Doing it at the PATH level would interfere with the station mezzanine. Queen has the added obstacle of the City Hall parking lot entrance on the south side. To my knowledge there isn't the same problem on King. Wellington, if we're going by the Urban Toronto plan would run into the parking garage sandwiched between University Ave. and the subway line.

To clear all of the utilities and existing subway lines, the DRL would likely be built even deeper. Of course, they'd have to navigate around all of the building foundations as well!

I like the idea of using the adjacent street for the station name, hence George (Jarvis could still work here, they can build at St. James Park), Peter and Victoria as well as Pecaut Square and Financial Core (not too fond of that one!). The Spadina station at Front could have been called Clarence Square. It'll definitely run aground on the TTC's updated naming conventions, and not to mention the possible confusion with St. George and Victoria Park. This is kinda how they deal with subway stations in Buenos Aires. The city is built on a 100-metre grid. With four parallel lines radiating from downtown you inevitably run into duplicate names. Where a suitable nearby attraction isn't available to name the station they simply use one of the adjacent streets and subtitle the name (like the University Line or Bay/Yorkville) with the major street. This is a more recent change as the earlier stations in the system do duplicate! The grid is so pervasive that ALL the streets are listed on the in-car strip map depending on the route in some of the older train sets. The cross street corresponding with the station in bold. (See attached cell pic)

[Guest]

Article in the Star today: TTC ponders using electrified GO corridors for a subway relief line

"The TTC wants to look at the feasibility of using GO’s Georgetown South and Lake Shore East lines as part of the solution for a downtown relief line (DRL).

If the Georgetown corridor and Lake Shore lines were electrified, different trains could be used either to make more frequent stops or offer express service within the city, potentially eliminating the cost of tunneling a new subway, said Stintz.

'If we could get the same service without having to dig, I think it’s something worth exploring,' she said."

Georgetown won't fly. You got GO on the Barrie, Milton and Kitchener corridors, the UP Express, and VIA. Byford is lieing through his teeth if he says there's capacity for TTC rapid transit. I could maybe see it north of Bloor, if they took over CP's lines, but why would CP do that? How else are they going to get between the North Toronto sub and Vaughan Intermodal Terminal?

[skyfirenet]

I could maybe see it north of Bloor, if they took over CP's lines, but why would CP do that? How else are they going to get between the North Toronto sub and Vaughan Intermodal Terminal?

You mean northern Ontario and western Canada.

Using the Georgetown corridor to Weston for a subway line isn't that crazy. it is fairly wide and it still may be able to handle two more tracks; assuming that the current grade seperation work can be expanded to handle it and it doesn't go to Union.

However, using the Lakeshore east line is nuts because not only is there no room in the corrdor for two more tracks but the first place you can link into the subway network is Kennedy which makes it useless as a downtown relief line.

[smallspy]

You mean northern Ontario and western Canada.

Using the Georgetown corridor to Weston for a subway line isn't that crazy. it is fairly wide and it still may be able to handle two more tracks; assuming that the current grade seperation work can be expanded to handle it and it doesn't go to Union.

However, using the Lakeshore east line is nuts because not only is there no room in the corrdor for two more tracks but the first place you can link into the subway network is Kennedy which makes it useless as a downtown relief line.

There is way more room in the Kingston Sub ROW than there is in the Weston Sub ROW. Even with all of the potential future expansion of the rail corridor, a subway would be relatively easy (save for the stations) to the east. The 8 projected future tracks to the northwest, however, would completely occupy all of the current ROW with no room left over for any subway. There is some debate whether there is even room for extensions to the railpath.

For the record, what was being suggested was not a subway per se in any case, but rather an "upgrading" of GO's lines and equipment to handle electrified stock and much higher frequencies. No mention was made of just what kind of rolling stock would run on these lines.

Dan