GO Transit

[Wayside Observer]

On 3/9/2021 at 5:21 PM, lip said:

Who knows this might not be the last we hear of it, more especially if the clown Del Duca (who initiated the hydrogen circus) gets elected as premier.

You know, I was thinking about this earlier today.  One of the justifications for the whole hydrogen train idea was that there's an abundance of hydrogen in Sarnia.

That's probably a byproduct of one of the industrial processes used by the petrochemical industry down there and if Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, goes through on shutting down the Enbridge Line 5 in a couple of months, that whole industry's going to be severely upended including hydrogen production.  I know the energy companies are looking at oil by rail or running tankers on Lake Superior (Is it the Exxon Fitzgerald or Edmund Valdez if things go wrong with that idea?) to get around it but it's still going to be painful if that happens and the idea of cheap, plentiful hydrogen for Go trains as an industrial byproduct is out the window.  The same applies if decarbonization of the economy happens in a big way to fight climate change.  There'll still be some byproduct hydrogen but not as much as the industry scales down, which means alternate sources will need to be found even if that means setting up specific manufacturing for it to break it down from petroleum or from water.  All of this is independent of the pitfalls and limitations of hydrogen fuel cell locomotives themselves.

If Del Duca becomes the premier, he needs to accept that Metrolinx researched the idea, it's far from ready for prime time, the source of the hydrogen itself is far from guaranteed, especially long term, and the best thing to do is start stringing wire.  The last thing anyone needs is yet another go round of expensive, unreliable proprietary Government of Ontario transportation garbage.  It never ends well.  Never.

[Ed T.]

With GO trains being six cars long instead of the usual 12, do the trains accelerate more quickly from a station stop, or it it about the same and the engines are taking it easy?

[Doppelkupplung]

31 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

With GO trains being six cars long instead of the usual 12, do the trains accelerate more quickly from a station stop, or it it about the same and the engines are taking it easy?

With half the usual weight gone, you can be sure they accelerate a bit faster. Whether they actually do that or not is up to the operator.  

[smallspy]

15 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

I’ve noticed dwell times at stations seems to be a little bit longer with 6 and 8 car trains compared to 12s, I assume that’s due to the quicker acceleration of the smaller trains.

It is, in part.

 

It's also because they are still having issues with people not lining up in the appropriate locations on the platforms, and so they need to wait for them.

 

Dan

[Wayside Observer]

Don’t know if you guys remember the snide remarks I made a while ago whenI mentioned that Go Transit had the opportunity to electrify at a steep discount when a short lived electrification in Mexico was shut down except we were in the middle of the “Common Sense Revolution” here with Mike Harris and company in charge, and common sense dictates you take a pass on the opportunity to get a big discount so you can pay full retail later, right?  Oh you bet it does.  Welcome to Ontariariario, a place too bland, a place too slow.

Anyhow, I’d heard about it. But I just came across proof in print.  Let’s turn back the clock 20 years to April, 2001 and take a peek at the Hatch Mott MacDonald Electrification Study - Update Lakeshore Line where there are some interesting tidbits near the top.

The locomotives were General Electric E60C that were a mix of lightly used and never used machines.  The locomotives and a lot of substation and overhead equipment would’ve come from that short lived electrification in Mexico.

More overhead catenary is also mentioned to be available from BC Rail. That’d be from the then recently canned Tumbler Ridge electrification. I don’t know if the GM GF6Cs were still available but those were purpose built as freight locos so no head end power, probably too steep a gear reduction ratio, and transformer work to convert them from 50 to 25 kv so I can see why Hatch didn’t consider them even if they were available.

Interestingly, looking at this April, 2001 report in April, 2021, there’s a passage in there referencing a 1992 electrification study and another mention that in 2001, at the time of writing, electrifying had been studied for 20 years.  That makes it 40 years now.  Forty years.  It’s been studied since 1981.  1981!  That’s pathetic.

Does anyone know if Metrolinx has gotten in touch with Hydro One to see if the deal on page iii still stands where Hydro One will pay for part of the substation and high voltage connection costs if they’re given a long term contract to supply the juice?

 

 

[Mike]

Similar to the discussion in the YRT thread about what happens to their routes when subway is extended on Yonge.  What do you think will happen to GO buses at Finch when subway is extended?

Would they mostly reroute them all to York Mills Terminal?

[Gil]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

Similar to the discussion in the YRT thread about what happens to their routes when subway is extended on Yonge.  What do you think will happen to GO buses at Finch when subway is extended?

Would they mostly reroute them all to York Mills Terminal?

Pre-pandemic there was still some decent traffic (passenger-wise) on the stretch between the 401 and Finch with the odd route branch diverting to York Mills.  I've only used York Mills once to catch a GO bus, unless they come up with some creative scheduling or interlining more routes I don't foresee them relocating there from Finch.  There are also the odd routes heading north along Yonge to the 407.  If YRT does move out of Finch or greatly reduces the number of routes, there will be plenty of room for GO Transit to use.  Perhaps reconfigure the terminal for nicer facilities?

GO is still the fastest way to get between the north ends of the Yonge and Spadina branches of Line 1.

[Articulated]

10 hours ago, Mike said:

Similar to the discussion in the YRT thread about what happens to their routes when subway is extended on Yonge.  What do you think will happen to GO buses at Finch when subway is extended?

Would they mostly reroute them all to York Mills Terminal?

The majority of the offices in North York Centre are located north of Highway 401; if all buses going into Finch were diverted to York Mills, many of the current passengers would be required to make an additional transfer to the subway, and at extra cost.

York Mills Terminal is also at capacity now, and since it's located underneath an office building there isn't room to expand without building an entirely new terminal on a different site.

[Mike]

8 minutes ago, Articulated said:

The majority of the offices in North York Centre are located north of Highway 401; if all buses going into Finch were diverted to York Mills, many of the current passengers would be required to make an additional transfer to the subway, and at extra cost.

York Mills Terminal is also at capacity now, and since it's located underneath an office building there isn't room to expand without building an entirely new terminal on a different site.

Thanks didn't think about the offices.  If it is office buildings along Yonge where most passengers are going then going to Finch can't be avoided. However, if at least some passengers were looking to transfer to YRT at Finch perhaps they should keep one route at Finch, for example 99.

[Wayside Observer]

The mail came today which included the March/April copy of the OACETT industry magazine and Metrolinx made the front cover:

I haven’t seen the new bus terminal yet but it sounds like they really cranked up the number of video displays.

[GTAmissions1]

Go Transit bus service changes effective May 1st (the list is pretty long):

Route 15 Brantford/Burlington: 15A trips on weekdays to McMaster University are suspended due to classes not running in-class

Route 16 Hamilton Express: Hourly service on weekdays except for peak periods and all day weekends. Service provided from Hamilton Go/West Harbour in the AM peak to Union and from Union to Hamilton Go/West Harbour during the PM peak/connection to Route 18 to connect to Lakeshore West train

Route 19 Square One/Finch: Frequency every two hours weekday late evenings with 8:10 PM until 12:10 AM from Square One and 8:50 PM until 12:50 AM from Finch. 

Route 21 Milton: Select trips will be combined which may involve serving more stops taking a bit longer.

Route 25 Mississauga/Waterloo: Schedule adjustments. 

Route 27 Milton/North York: Service reduced to hourly during the weekday daytime and every 2 hours during late evening. Service to York Mills Station will be discontinued.

Route 29 Guelph/Mississauga: Schedule adjustments and weekday late evening frequency reduced to every 2 hours. Last trip from Guelph Go Station is 10:20 PM and Square One at 12:20 AM. 

Route 31 Kitchener: On-request stop changed to between Mount Pleasant Go and Georgetown Go Station during late evenings on the 31E branch. 

Route 32 Brampton/North York: Rush hour service reduced to hourly along with schedule adjustments 

Route 34 Pearson/North York: Schedule adjustments 

Route 36 Brampton/North York: Schedule adjustment 

Route 40 Richmond Hill/Pearson: Late evening weekday service reduced to operating every two hours. 1:05 AM from Hamilton Go and 1:15 AM from Richmond Hill Centre. Resuming just after 3 AM the next day. 

Route 41 Hamilton/Pickering and Route 45 Streetsville/Square One/Highway 407 Terminal: Schedule adjustments 

Route 47 Hamilton/Highway 407 Terminal: Schedule adjustments and platform change at Square One from Platform 9 to Platform 8

Route 48 Highway 407: Schedule adjustments 

Route 54 Mt. Joy/407 Terminal: Schedule adjustments 

Route 66 East Gwillimbury/Yorkdale: Schedule adjustments 

Route 67 Keswick/North York: 12:10 PM and 3:10 PM afternoon weekday departures suspended 

Route 92 Whitby/Finch and Route 96 Oshawa/Finch: Schedule adjustments 

 

 

 

Final comments:

The biggest adjustment I noticed is the two hour frequency during late evenings when ridership is lower. I know off-hand Route 66 Yorkdale/East Gwillimbury Express operates every two hours during the daytime outside of peak periods. Being a challenge if waiting for a departure and two hours is a pretty long wait. It also depends on other options available such as local transit or routes available.

Having to manage costs with the current pandemic situation with the lower ridership. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by GTAmissions1
fixing typos

[Articulated]

6 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit bus service changes effective May 1st (the list is pretty long):

...

Final comments:

The biggest adjustment I noticed is the two hour frequency during late evenings when ridership is lower. I know off-hand Route 66 Yorkdale/East Gwillimbury Express operates every two hours during the daytime outside of peak periods. Being a challenge if waiting for a departure and two hours is a pretty long wait. It also depends on other options available such as local transit or routes available.

Having to manage costs with the current pandemic situation with the lower ridership. 

The list may be long, but the majority of changes are minor in nature - just adjusting schedules for running time, in most cases +/- 5 minutes.

GO already cut their service a lot at the start of the pandemic... almost all routes were brought down to hourly frequency. There's not many more places to find cost-savings or "efficiencies" without sacrificing service levels even more.

[Ultimate]

I noticed this today at Guildwood GO Station, a part of the north parking lot is closed yet again. Anyone know what these new digital signs are?

[nfitz]

7 hours ago, Ultimate said:

Anyone know what these new digital signs are?

[Bessarion]

Are there any plans on resuming the weekend Niagara Falls train?

[GTAmissions1]

1 hour ago, Bessarion said:

Are there any plans on resuming the weekend Niagara Falls train?

Eventually. Right now, the ridership still hasn't recovered noting most train lines on weekends have been replaced by bus service. Having to manage costs with COVID-19 with how some routes during the late evening are going to be reduced to every two hours next week. This is along with the current stay at home order too. 

[Bessarion]

7 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Eventually. Right now, the ridership still hasn't recovered noting most train lines on weekends have been replaced by bus service. Having to manage costs with COVID-19 with how some routes during the late evening are going to be reduced to every two hours next week. This is along with the current stay at home order too. 

I see, normally before Covid when do they normally resume the weekend service? I remember it being around March or so. 

[Gil]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:17 PM, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit bus service changes effective May 1st (the list is pretty long):

Route 15 Brantford/Burlington: 15A trips on weekdays to McMaster University are suspended due to classes not running in-class

Route 16 Hamilton Express: Hourly service on weekdays when trains aren't running to Hamilton and all day weekends

Route 19 Square One/Finch: Frequency every two hours weekday late evenings with 8:10 PM until 12:10 AM from Square One and 8:50 PM until 12:50 AM from Finch. 

Route 21 Milton: Select trips will be combined which may involve serving more stops taking a bit longer.

Route 25 Mississauga/Waterloo: Schedule adjustments. 

Route 27 Milton/North York: Service reduced to hourly during the weekday daytime and every 2 hours during late evening. Service to York Mills Station will be discontinued.

Route 29 Guelph/Mississauga: Schedule adjustments and weekday late evening frequency reduced to every 2 hours. Last trip from Guelph Go Station is 10:20 PM and Square One at 12:20 AM. 

Route 31 Kitchener: On-request stop changed to between Mount Pleasant Go and Georgetown Go Station during late evenings on the 31E branch. 

Route 32 Brampton/North York: Rush hour service reduced to hourly along with schedule adjustments 

Route 34 Pearson/North York: Schedule adjustments 

Route 36 Brampton/North York: Schedule adjustment 

Route 40 Richmond Hill/Pearson: Late evening weekday service reduced to operating every two hours. 1:05 AM from Hamilton Go and 1:15 AM from Richmond Hill Centre. Resuming just after 3 AM the next day. 

Route 41 Hamilton/Pickering and Route 45 Streetsville/Square One/Highway 407 Terminal: Schedule adjustments 

Route 47 Hamilton/Highway 407 Terminal: Schedule adjustments and platform change at Square One from Platform 9 to Platform 8

Route 48 Highway 407: Schedule adjustments 

Route 54 Oshawa/Oakville: Schedule adjustments 

Route 66 East Gwillimbury/Yorkdale: Schedule adjustments 

Route 67 Keswick/North York: 12:10 PM and 3:10 PM afternoon weekday departures suspended 

Route 92 Whitby/Finch and Route 96 Oshawa/Finch: Schedule adjustments 

I was looking at the new schedules and noticed the maps hadn't been updated to reflect the new changes that I've noted in red.  In the case of Route 15, it appears a different route map is used altogether both in the current and the revised schedules.  How hard is it to update the maps on the schedules?  With Route 27 the 27B branch is cancelled and should be removed from the map.  With Route 21 they've combined branches 21H and 21R into 21W and also eliminated the last 21J while the 21K was eliminated earlier in the pandemic.  The various branches still show up on the map except for the 21W.  I would hope that the signs at the various stations and terminals are also updated to prevent confusion as the printed schedules are no longer available for viewing.

I remember last year someone waiting at Square One for the 21K (express to Union) which wasn't running at the time.  The passenger was looking at the sign and there was no indication when the service operated, just that it served that particular stop.  The weekday 21W is probably going to cause some similar confusion.  And with the combined branches, it also effectively reduces service on the entire corridor since you no longer have two branches to choose from, resulting in a single arrival time at Union Bus Terminal.

[newflyerinvero]

8ve got two nitpicks.

The 16 doesn't have departures out if Hamilton between 3pm and 7pm on weekdays as 'the train runs TO Hamilton. Would make more sense if there were trains heading to Union at that time.

Lastly, Route 54 is Mount Joy/Hwy.407 and NOT Oshawa/Oakville.

[GTAmissions1]

2 hours ago, Gil said:

I was looking at the new schedules and noticed the maps hadn't been updated to reflect the new changes that I've noted in red.  In the case of Route 15, it appears a different route map is used altogether both in the current and the revised schedules.  How hard is it to update the maps on the schedules?  With Route 27 the 27B branch is cancelled and should be removed from the map.  With Route 21 they've combined branches 21H and 21R into 21W and also eliminated the last 21J while the 21K was eliminated earlier in the pandemic.  The various branches still show up on the map except for the 21W.  I would hope that the signs at the various stations and terminals are also updated to prevent confusion as the printed schedules are no longer available for viewing.

I remember last year someone waiting at Square One for the 21K (express to Union) which wasn't running at the time.  The passenger was looking at the sign and there was no indication when the service operated, just that it served that particular stop.  The weekday 21W is probably going to cause some similar confusion.  And with the combined branches, it also effectively reduces service on the entire corridor since you no longer have two branches to choose from, resulting in a single arrival time at Union Bus Terminal.

I always found the 21 very interesting since there are so many branches. Especially since it is pretty hard to keep track of which branch services which stops depending on which stop the passenger is going to. Route letters are important of course since each route services a different section of course.

1 hour ago, newflyerinvero said:

8ve got two nitpicks.

The 16 doesn't have departures out if Hamilton between 3pm and 7pm on weekdays as 'the train runs TO Hamilton. Would make more sense if there were trains heading to Union at that time.

Lastly, Route 54 is Mount Joy/Hwy.407 and NOT Oshawa/Oakville.

Noted and amended with the additional detail of Route 18 as a connection point for those who take the Lakeshore West to Aldershot to reach Hamilton/reach Union from Hamilton GO Centre when Route 16 isn't operating. I remember during the beginning of the pandemic how they eliminated most of the departures except for the final departure from Hamilton GO Centre. Now bringing back some of the service, but on a limited frequency. 

[Articulated]

2 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Noted and amended with the additional detail of Route 18 as a connection point for those who take the Lakeshore West to Aldershot to reach Hamilton/reach Union from Hamilton GO Centre when Route 16 isn't operating. I remember during the beginning of the pandemic how they eliminated most of the departures except for the final departure from Hamilton GO Centre. Now bringing back some of the service, but on a limited frequency. 

That last 16 trip in the old schedules was basically an "in-service deadhead" to bring a bus from Hamilton to Union Station for the late-night 18C trips out to Hamilton. The inbalance between inbound and outbound 16 trips is still maintained in the new schedules to allow for this.

[Shaun]

On 4/26/2021 at 10:57 PM, Articulated said:

That last 16 trip in the old schedules was basically an "in-service deadhead" to bring a bus from Hamilton to Union Station for the late-night 18C trips out to Hamilton. The inbalance between inbound and outbound 16 trips is still maintained in the new schedules to allow for this.

I always thought that it would make sense for the Niagara falls bus to leave from Aldershot or Oakville allowing better connections with VIA.  Otherwise you need to take the GO Train from Burlington to Aldershot or Oakville.

[Wayside Observer]

This is actually quite cute:

Metrolinx is using Morse code to prevent birds from crashing into their glass

The BlogTO article is derived from Metrolinx's Blog Metrolinx deploys Morse code in strategy to protect birds as part of the electrification program

It's actually a neat, well thought out idea.

[yrt1000]

Doesn’t look like this is reported here yet, but all of the Richmond Hill line trains are now being operated with only 4 cars (reduced from 6). Started in the beginning of May

[Wayside Observer]

Greyhound going bust gives Metrolinx an unexpected opportunity to horn in on territory that was previously off the table and engage in a nice little round of empire building.  Which former Grehound routes do you guys think Go is going to pick up?