GO Transit

[Transit geek]

3 hours ago, dowlingm said:

A Woodbine transfer station to an "Airtrain" would have solved a lot of issues around UPX like high platforms at Union, Bloor and Weston. But I guess without a direct link, it would have been harder to get 4 tracking and West Toronto separation in the first place. To my mind, with this and the grade separations west of Malton progressing, it's time to look again at truncating UPX to a shuttle and giving UPX slots over to more GO trains.

Of course, what's more likely to happen is that Woodbine will simply add a UPX platform and turn the airport train into a premium train to the casin... I mean... important mainstay of Ontario's horseracing industry...

How about extending the Pearson Link train to the casino instead? I'm sure that could be done at a much cheaper price without any sacrifices to the UPX travel time, and it would be a free journey too. Just imagine a rail link from Kitchener to Pearson, albeit at the cost of a transfer... but oh, how much time would be saved from forcing to travel to Weston or Union!

[Gil]

2 hours ago, Transit geek said:

How about extending the Pearson Link train to the casino instead? I'm sure that could be done at a much cheaper price without any sacrifices to the UPX travel time, and it would be a free journey too. Just imagine a rail link from Kitchener to Pearson, albeit at the cost of a transfer... but oh, how much time would be saved from forcing to travel to Weston or Union!

My personal preference when they were still planning the UPX would have been to extend the Link train (or have a different line seeing as it's cable-pulled) up to Malton and upgrade that station as a Regional Hub.  Increase the frequency of the trains along the corridor and have VIA stop there and then you'd have a way to get even more places.  Malton being an existing station would save on some of the costs involved and I'm sure the International Centre would appreciate the extra mobility in exchange for some of their parking space. 

MiWay, TTC, GO, Brampton Transit, YRT and VIA could all serve it given it's geographic location.  Hell, if given enough room they could throw in a check-in or pre-clearance similar to what's being planned for the new Pearson transit hub.  The one tricky part is getting a line up Airport Rd.  A shallow tunnel or trench within the airport grounds on the west side of the road would probably suffice, just as long as they build it to accommodate Pearson's needs.

[newflyerinvero]

Found this through On The Go E-news this morning. Rejoice, Burlington Transit, Oakville Transit and GO Transit riders! An actual terminal layout will be on its way!

On Monday, March 11, we'll be closing approximately 15 parking spaces in the Dundas St. @ Hwy 407 Park & Ride lot to start work on the parking lot and bus bay expansion. These spaces are located on the south side, closest to Dundas Street. Cars parked in these spaces after 9:00 p.m. on Sunday, March 10 will be relocated to a different area of the lot. These spaces are expected to remain closed until the project is complete in spring 2020, however we'll be opening 70 new spaces when the first phase of the project is finished in summer 2019.

Once fully complete in spring 2020, your Park & Ride lot will have nearly 300 new spaces, eight bus bays, and a Kiss & Ride. We will keep you informed about this project as it progresses. Thank you for your cooperation and patience while we make these improvements.

[Gil]

Thought this could probably go here since it's related.

GO Transit bus layover/garages

On 3/5/2019 at 9:55 AM, dowlingm said:

Does GO have a downtown layover area for its coaches similar to Don and Bathurst yards to store buses (if any) not required for all-day service?

Given the growth in downtown, is there any reasonable prospect of GO looking for a property to operate a garage for downtown-to-suburb commuting?

 

On 3/5/2019 at 11:39 AM, Doppelkupplung said:

I know GO will use the streets in the Port Lands neighbourhood to layover before the evening rush; Viliers street is where alot of them camp out. Ive also seen them take up some spots in the greyhound garage just west of Lakeshore and Carlaw. They rent some spaces for this purpose, and according to the wiki they do this elsewhere as well.

I dont think storing buses downtown is a huge issue, since both areas I mentioned are 5 mins from USBT, not to mention the relaxed parking rules there as well. There are also multiple layover bays for buses in the lane across the fence at USBT. 

Additionally, the post-rush hour train-buses tend to come off of other trips, I’ve seen numerous trips ie 19 and 45 head downtown to do evening work so again, storage isn’t a huge issue. 

 

On 3/5/2019 at 12:50 PM, smallspy said:

Indeed, the way GO's bus network is set up, there very seldom is any laying over for long periods of time like there is with the train fleet. There will be layovers between runs to allow for the drivers to get a break and ensure that they leave on time, but in a lot of cases the buses that are running the train-bus runs outside of rush hours are the same buses that are running the services that connect with the trains at the outlying stations at rush hours.

Dan

 

On 3/5/2019 at 9:35 PM, D40-90 said:

Plus most routes that enter the core/Union Station usually start and end there day in the suburbs. Away from the Downtown core, which reflects ridership patterns. Most people are going away from the downtown area at night, and at the end of the PM rush hours. And vice versa in the Morning And am rush

[Transit 20]

sad news coming out of Hamilton tonight.

 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9214571-police-investigating-pedestrian-fatality-at-downtown-hamilton-go-station/

[Doppelkupplung]

Seems like GO is testing out the Goodyear KMAX on the SuperLos, saw this yesterday. Curious as to how these would do in the snow; they’re primarily for higher mileage. 

 

[dowlingm]

Re- extension of LINK. My understanding was that LINK could be extended to the far end of    T1 but that ultimately GTAA were intending a retrofit to self propelled when demand required it. It does look to me like extending past Viscount is impeded by the parking garage structure.

having some kind of fast link (separate to LINK) to Malton makes sense given GTAA buying the International Centre but what does a focus on Woodbine mean for GTAA aspirations there?

[7575]

GO 2607 at the Auto show.

[yrt1000]

Starting April 8, the Stoufville line midday trains will be extended to Mount Joy. Check out the full schedule here

https://www.gotransit.com/static_files/gotransit/assets/pdf/TripPlanning/FullSchedules/06042019/Table71.pdf

Not sure if I’m right about this, but from looking at the schedule, the NB and SB train arrive at Unionville within 8 minutes of each other. So I assume the NB train will just hold at the siding just before Unionville GO station for the SB train to pass to allow for this change

 

[smallspy]

2 hours ago, yrt1000 said:

Not sure if I’m right about this, but from looking at the schedule, the NB and SB train arrive at Unionville within 8 minutes of each other. So I assume the NB train will just hold at the siding just before Unionville GO station for the SB train to pass to allow for this change

This is how the current schedule is written. Trains currently have a layover of 52 minutes at Unionville.

 

All this is doing is taking a shorter layover - 23 minutes - in Mount Joy.

 

Dan

[G.A]

Looking at the Wiki shows that 8122 is retired from the fire at the garage, but does anyone know the status of 8131 if MTB said forget it and scrapped it or will it come back to service. Last time I had seen it was at MTB missing all its windows as it looked to be in position of being fixed up. That was two years ago.

[Wayside Observer]

Short haul Go fare reduction

I get it. It's a popular idea. I've read about it a number of times on Steve Munro's blog among other places. After decades of woeful underinvestment in the TTC by all levels of government, it's a 'nice' idea to co-opt the commuter system to make up for shortfalls in Toronto.  What isn't mentioned in the headline though is that there's a 4% fare hike on trips over 10 km in length so the bill's effectively being handed to the long distance commuters to subsidize intra-416 travel on what's supposed to be the regional commuter system.  It's going to be interesting to see how this goes over outside of Toronto.

[nfitz]

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Short haul Go fare reduction

I get it. It's a popular idea. I've read about it a number of times on Steve Munro's blog among other places. After decades of woeful underinvestment in the TTC by all levels of government, it's a 'nice' idea to co-opt the commuter system to make up for shortfalls in Toronto.  What isn't mentioned in the headline though is that there's a 4% fare hike on trips over 10 km in length so the bill's effectively being handed to the long distance commuters to subsidize intra-416 travel on what's supposed to be the regional commuter system.  It's going to be interesting to see how this goes over outside of Toronto.

Though stations that are further than 10 km from Union include Kipling, Kennedy, Oriole, Downsview Park, Weston, and Long Branch.

So it's more for downtowners using Bloor, Danforth, Mimico, and Exhibition really. Though the Globe is reporting that Scarborough is included - which is rather odd, given it's further than Weston that Metrolinx is tweeting is not included (from Union).

[dowlingm]

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

What isn't mentioned in the headline though is that there's a 4% fare hike on trips over 10 km in length so the bill's effectively being handed to the long distance commuters to subsidize intra-416 travel on what's supposed to be the regional commuter system.  It's going to be interesting to see how this goes over outside of Toronto.

I think before deploring the impact on trips over 10km, we should consider the extent to which those trips are currently subsidised?

[Gil]

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Short haul Go fare reduction

I get it. It's a popular idea. I've read about it a number of times on Steve Munro's blog among other places. After decades of woeful underinvestment in the TTC by all levels of government, it's a 'nice' idea to co-opt the commuter system to make up for shortfalls in Toronto.  What isn't mentioned in the headline though is that there's a 4% fare hike on trips over 10 km in length so the bill's effectively being handed to the long distance commuters to subsidize intra-416 travel on what's supposed to be the regional commuter system.  It's going to be interesting to see how this goes over outside of Toronto.

We'll have to wait and see if it's a blanket 4% increase or if like in previous increases it will vary based on distance.  That being said, long-haul commuters are pretty much a captive audience, meaning they'll likely take the increase.  Does the drop mean that the base fare initially charged on a PRESTO card will also drop or will it just refund more of your fare similar to what happens currently for short-haul trips?

The 10-kilometre cutoff could have some additional benefits for cities with multiple stations (Burlington, Oakville, Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughan and Markham) with commuters hopping on for intra-city trips, which would also qualify them for a GO co-fare discount which I think resets their 2-hour transfer window.  Provided there's service in the direction you need at the time you're travelling!

I can see this as a bit of a headache for those trying to get into downtown in the AM rush as most trains are full and trying to accommodate the short-haul riders may be difficult.  On the other hand, outbound trips in the PM rush will have possibly thinned out by the time they enter 905.

[Wayside Observer]

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

Though stations that are further than 10 km from Union include Kipling, Kennedy, Oriole, Downsview Park, Weston, and Long Branch.

So it's more for downtowners using Bloor, Danforth, Mimico, and Exhibition really. Though the Globe is reporting that Scarborough is included - which is rather odd, given it's further than Weston that Metrolinx is tweeting is not included (from Union).

Ah, thanks for pointing that out.  I was thinking in miles since I was talking about trains and 10 km is a much shorter radius to work with than 10 miles.  If you go on the premise of using the commuter system for local travel within the GTA, outside of the fact that 10 km is a nice, easy round number it is a strange choice because of the number of in-Toronto stations it excludes if you use Union as one of the end points.

3 hours ago, Gil said:

We'll have to wait and see if it's a blanket 4% increase or if like in previous increases it will vary based on distance.  That being said, long-haul commuters are pretty much a captive audience, meaning they'll likely take the increase.  Does the drop mean that the base fare initially charged on a PRESTO card will also drop or will it just refund more of your fare similar to what happens currently for short-haul trips?

I went looking on the Go Transit website before posting hoping to find more detailed information than what hit the papers but couldn't find anything.  In hindsight, I didn't try the Metrolinx website though.  What I was hoping for specifically was a choice between present and future fares on the fare calculator page the way they did it a couple of years ago where you could set your start and end points and calculate the existing fares or select to calculate what the new fare would be after the increase being announced takes effect.

3 hours ago, dowlingm said:

I think before deploring the impact on trips over 10km, we should consider the extent to which those trips are currently subsidised?

Well, a couple of points.  Think about the overall absurdity of rejigging the commuter system for local in town travel meanwhile the premier's been on record in support of extending the subway to Pickering.  What I'm deploring is using the wrong tool in the wrong place for the wrong purpose.  It's like using a claw hammer instead of a hole saw.  You can do it.  I've witnessed it being done.  It even sort of works but by gosh the results are ugly.

I agree, we should think about the degree to which the >10 km length trips are subsidized.  The reason Go Transit was put in place was to try and get those cars off the road.  Since most of those trips end at Union Station, we can probably safely infer that most final destinations are somewhere within a reasonable radius of that within downtown Toronto which, as we all know all too well, is already a seriously congested mess.  If the Go train becomes a hideously expensive and nightmarish experience some people will say screw this, I'm driving to work.  Considering the state traffic's in throughout the GTA now, it would not take a large percentage to drive downtown instead of to the train station for an already bad situation to turn into a serious problem so in this respect, when you think about the opportunity costs and indirect costs involved, not subsidizing those longer trips is a very expensive proposition.

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Ah, thanks for pointing that out.  I was thinking in miles since I was talking about trains and 10 km is a much shorter radius to work with than 10 miles.  If you go on the premise of using the commuter system for local travel within the GTA, outside of the fact that 10 km is a nice, easy round number it is a strange choice because of the number of in-Toronto stations it excludes if you use Union as one of the end points.

Meanwhile though, things have gotten much more confusing. Earlier in the day, Metrolinx was tweeting to people asking about Weston to Union (only 12 km apart) by saying that they wanted to make it crystal clear to everyone it was only less than less than 10 km.

But then the Globe and Mail and Star both confirmed that Scarborough was included - which was 13 km from Union. Metrolinx then clarified that they are still using the old zone system, so there's exceptions, etc.

But that raises other complications. For example Eglinton is in the same zone (6) as Scarborough (and Danforth). While Bloor is in the zone (2) as Union. But wait ... that would make the 23-km Eglinton to Bloor run the minimum rate!

Metrolinx then further clarified that they are changing some of the zones.

I think the real answer, is they don't have a clue what they are doing, and who knows ... but it's not strictly going to be 10 km. Stay tuned!

[Wayside Observer]

55 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I think the real answer, is they don't have a clue what they are doing

I think you pretty much summed up Metrostinx in a nutshell right there.

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Meanwhile though, things have gotten much more confusing. Earlier in the day, Metrolinx was tweeting to people asking about Weston to Union (only 12 km apart) by saying that they wanted to make it crystal clear to everyone it was only less than less than 10 km.

But then the Globe and Mail and Star both confirmed that Scarborough was included - which was 13 km from Union. Metrolinx then clarified that they are still using the old zone system, so there's exceptions, etc.

But that raises other complications. For example Eglinton is in the same zone (6) as Scarborough (and Danforth). While Bloor is in the zone (2) as Union. But wait ... that would make the 23-km Eglinton to Bloor run the minimum rate!

Metrolinx then further clarified that they are changing some of the zones.

I think the real answer, is they don't have a clue what they are doing, and who knows ... but it's not strictly going to be 10 km. Stay tuned!

From their Twitter, It seems like they are removing the UPX (Weston/Bloor/Union) off the GO network. Everyone boarding the UPX taps on a seperate device. So a transfer to GO at Union would require tapping off the silver rader and then again on the GO reader. It seems like they don't want more riders on the UPX.

[nfitz]

22 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

From their Twitter, It seems like they are removing the UPX (Weston/Bloor/Union) off the GO network. Everyone boarding the UPX taps on a seperate device. So a transfer to GO at Union would require tapping off the silver rader and then again on the GO reader. It seems like they don't want more riders on the UPX.

Quite possibly. I haven't ridden the line in about a year, and it was standing room only at peak even then - not what I expected with kids after paying to go to the airport. And ridership has gone up. There's really no excuse in rush-hour when there are frequent 12-car GO trains for commuters not going to Pearson to be squeezing onto a 2-car airport train.

They really need to purchase a few more cars to get all the consists to 3-cars. Perhaps they can make the UP fares match GO fares for off-peak periods when there aren't the GO alternatives - and the trains aren't too full already.

[Xtrazsteve]

39 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Quite possibly. I haven't ridden the line in about a year, and it was standing room only at peak even then - not what I expected with kids after paying to go to the airport. And ridership has gone up. There's really no excuse in rush-hour when there are frequent 12-car GO trains for commuters not going to Pearson to be squeezing onto a 2-car airport train.

They really need to purchase a few more cars to get all the consists to 3-cars. Perhaps they can make the UP fares match GO fares for off-peak periods when there aren't the GO alternatives - and the trains aren't too full already.

Typically it's standing room during peak hours in both direction and before/after sports games. People just parks at the airport and use it to get into the city to avoid traffic. It somewhat has become a relief line on the west end oppose to an airport link. In peak hours and game days, more than half the riders don't have luggages. It's certain the Liberals/ML didn't plan it to be a subway with the initial pricing. Further price reduction will likely lead to it being stuffed full and removes the capacity for actual people headed for their airport. Off peak isn't as bad and could use a price reduction to fill up the spaces except around before/after games.

Built with such low capacity, it would require major station expansions to increase capacity and more frequent trains. It's almost like Toronto's version of the Canada Line.

[NewFlyerFan]

Spotted 2327 in the old livery this afternoon on I believe the 33, are there any others still in the old paint? 

And a side question that I apologize if it’s been asked before but is there a reason GO went with the typical coach doors instead of the commuter doors you see on majority of US commuter buses ( think NJT and MTA ) was there a logic to this or simply cost saving measures 

[dowlingm]

(re: UPX) Is it possible that the reason they don't want to purchase more DMUs is in part that they would rather not have to get into a public discussion of when, exactly, electrification is going to happen? Depending on what the final design of Woodbine station ends up being and the impact on demand of adding Mount Dennis station not yet known, they may be thinking it's better to kick the capacity can down the road.

There is also the possibility that the Ford crew may be reverting to what it seemed that the McGuinty crew planned - keep it separate from GO as much as possible and find a way to sell it off.

[Transit geek]

Well if they ever want to consider expanding the UPX fleet, it could be much harder now that the maker of our current DMUs has shuttered its North American operations. And also... https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/9001313-181/four-new-rail-cars-costing

[2044]

On 4/2/2019 at 1:44 AM, nfitz said:

Quite possibly. I haven't ridden the line in about a year, and it was standing room only at peak even then - not what I expected with kids after paying to go to the airport. And ridership has gone up. There's really no excuse in rush-hour when there are frequent 12-car GO trains for commuters not going to Pearson to be squeezing onto a 2-car airport train.

They really need to purchase a few more cars to get all the consists to 3-cars. Perhaps they can make the UP fares match GO fares for off-peak periods when there aren't the GO alternatives - and the trains aren't too full already.

I wonder if they could have special pricing on UP for weekends only. Keep accepting GO fares on UP, but only on the weekends. Travelling from Scarborough to High Park, the integrated GO fare has been a godsend.