Durham Region Transit

[brianc1981]

 

4 hours ago, Gamer Studios said:

New update from the fire, I've been hearing from multiple sources that DRT is apparently "in talks" with TTC to lease buses for the interim. This is coming from some DRT employees.

I have heard they are talking to YRT and MiWay and HSR as well. 

[Articulated]

5 hours ago, Gamer Studios said:

New update from the fire, I've been hearing from multiple sources that DRT is apparently "in talks" with TTC to lease buses for the interim. This is coming from some DRT employees.

1 hour ago, brianc1981 said:

 

I have heard they are talking to YRT and MiWay and HSR as well. 

I'm fairly certain that DRT management would be doing "due diligence" in talking with all of their neighbouring municipal systems to see who would be able to help out. Kinda like in professional sports, teams will call every other team about a potential deal, but it doesn't mean there are any realistic chances of anything occurring; both sides just need to "kick the tires" to see what their options are before committing to anything.

There are a lot of complicating factors involved here. Timing is a big one, especially given that September is two weeks away and a lot of agencies have planned service increases that would eat into any current spare ratios. Some agencies have larger spare ratios left over from COVID that could leave them in a position better suited to provide vehicles than other systems (i.e. Brampton, which is so desperate to increase service they're currently buying used buses). It would also depend on how long DRT needs vehicles for; there's an immediate short-term need for the next couple of weeks until any smoke-damaged units can be inspected, repaired and cleaned, then there's a separate longer-term need to replace any buses that were completely written off that will last until new ones can be ordered from the manufacturer. Other agencies would be in a better position to loan their buses (perhaps even somewhat newer ones) to alleviate the short-term need, while depending on the number of written-off buses the long-term need may need to be covered through reduced spare ratio or second-hand purchases if new bus deliveries are 2+ years away.

As mentioned elsewhere, another huge factor would be the vehicles and how well they integrate with DRT's existing fleet, both from a maintenance and operations perspective. MiWay could let DRT borrow some of their retiring 03/05xx D40LFs, but those are very worn out and may not be great replacements compared to say Hamilton's newer 07/08xx D40LFs. Buses in both of those series may have their MTOs expired/close to expiration, which could limit their usefulness. While DRT's Xcelsiors are a mix of Allison/Voith transmissions, the Novas are all ZFs, so that could discourage borrowing from YRT (whose buses are predominately Voiths) or TTC (whose LFS are all Allison). TTC's manual fareboxes might not work well with any revenue collection systems designed to work with DRT's existing GFI CENTSaBILL fareboxes. This post is not meant as an "exhaustive" list by any means, but it's mean to provide some context and insight into what kind of thinking would need to be done before securing any rental buses. A lot of things can be "made due with" for short periods of time, but start figuring in longer-term rentals and then maintenance and other incompatibilities start becoming larger issues.

[MorningsideExpress]

1 hour ago, Articulated said:

I'm fairly certain that DRT management would be doing "due diligence" in talking with all of their neighbouring municipal systems to see who would be able to help out. Kinda like in professional sports, teams will call every other team about a potential deal, but it doesn't mean there are any realistic chances of anything occurring; both sides just need to "kick the tires" to see what their options are before committing to anything.

There are a lot of complicating factors involved here. Timing is a big one, especially given that September is two weeks away and a lot of agencies have planned service increases that would eat into any current spare ratios. Some agencies have larger spare ratios left over from COVID that could leave them in a position better suited to provide vehicles than other systems (i.e. Brampton, which is so desperate to increase service they're currently buying used buses). It would also depend on how long DRT needs vehicles for; there's an immediate short-term need for the next couple of weeks until any smoke-damaged units can be inspected, repaired and cleaned, then there's a separate longer-term need to replace any buses that were completely written off that will last until new ones can be ordered from the manufacturer. Other agencies would be in a better position to loan their buses (perhaps even somewhat newer ones) to alleviate the short-term need, while depending on the number of written-off buses the long-term need may need to be covered through reduced spare ratio or second-hand purchases if new bus deliveries are 2+ years away.

As mentioned elsewhere, another huge factor would be the vehicles and how well they integrate with DRT's existing fleet, both from a maintenance and operations perspective. MiWay could let DRT borrow some of their retiring 03/05xx D40LFs, but those are very worn out and may not be great replacements compared to say Hamilton's newer 07/08xx D40LFs. Buses in both of those series may have their MTOs expired/close to expiration, which could limit their usefulness. While DRT's Xcelsiors are a mix of Allison/Voith transmissions, the Novas are all ZFs, so that could discourage borrowing from YRT (whose buses are predominately Voiths) or TTC (whose LFS are all Allison). TTC's manual fareboxes might not work well with any revenue collection systems designed to work with DRT's existing GFI CENTSaBILL fareboxes. This post is not meant as an "exhaustive" list by any means, but it's mean to provide some context and insight into what kind of thinking would need to be done before securing any rental buses. A lot of things can be "made due with" for short periods of time, but start figuring in longer-term rentals and then maintenance and other incompatibilities start becoming larger issues.

I wonder what feasibility exists for GO Transit to temporarily increase service on current routes in Durham Region, or introduce new routes until the DRT fleet is restored. Whether they are able to acquire loaners from other agencies or not, and then maybe offer free transfers for riders in order to ease demand for DRT. 

[Articulated]

Did some analysis of Transsee data from the past 7 days (so you don't have to!!). It appears that 101 of the 181 buses in the DRT fleet were active/in service since the fire. While I don't have an updated list of which buses are at which division, given the low service ratio, and how the buses are generally grouped in blocks, it strongly seems that none of the fleet based at Raleigh has seen any service since the fire (with the exception of units out for late night service on the N1/N2, which were mostly 8600s and 8585). This suggests that all of their fleet is still quarantined, either due to smoke damage or as part of the investigation.

This also means that trolling through Transsee data to determine which buses were the ones that were written off in the fire is likely useless at this point.

[ORION]

27 minutes ago, Articulated said:

Did some analysis of Transsee data from the past 7 days (so you don't have to!!). It appears that 101 of the 181 buses in the DRT fleet were active/in service since the fire. While I don't have an updated list of which buses are at which division, given the low service ratio, and how the buses are generally grouped in blocks, it strongly seems that none of the fleet based at Raleigh has seen any service since the fire (with the exception of units out for late night service on the N1/N2, which were mostly 8600s and 8585). This suggests that all of their fleet is still quarantined, either due to smoke damage or as part of the investigation.

This also means that trolling through Transsee data to determine which buses were the ones that were written off in the fire is likely useless at this point.

That explains what RO said about all drivers reporting to Ajax I guess..

[wt_enthusiast_photos]

Would this be one of the worst transit related fires we’ve seen?

[MCIBUS]

What's the possibility  of leasing buses from a Bus whole saller like ABC from the US? I'm not of the requirements regarding Transport Canada rules on buses in Canada though?

[smallspy]

6 hours ago, wt_enthusiast_photos said:

Would this be one of the worst transit related fires we’ve seen?

Depending on how old you are, this may be one of the worst in your history, yes.

 

But if you look back further in time, there are lots of stories and reports of entire streetcar and bus barns going up in flames, and the destruction of hundreds of vehicles at once.

 

Dan

[Ultimate]

13 hours ago, Articulated said:

Did some analysis of Transsee data from the past 7 days (so you don't have to!!). It appears that 101 of the 181 buses in the DRT fleet were active/in service since the fire. While I don't have an updated list of which buses are at which division, given the low service ratio, and how the buses are generally grouped in blocks, it strongly seems that none of the fleet based at Raleigh has seen any service since the fire (with the exception of units out for late night service on the N1/N2, which were mostly 8600s and 8585). This suggests that all of their fleet is still quarantined, either due to smoke damage or as part of the investigation.

This also means that trolling through Transsee data to determine which buses were the ones that were written off in the fire is likely useless at this point.

We are still doing a deep check of every bus in the fleet at Raleigh, we have to get a safety inspector to improve of the safety of each one aswell. Drivers are being sent to Ajax. Buses that were out of the division at the time for service were sent to Ajax for the night and will remain there for the time being. With all the buses scrambled and all the unknown issues we still done have a head count on which units are affected in which way. Alot of the “un-burnt units” have smoke or heat related damaged ie; damaged frames, windows, seat covering, paneling, doors being curved in, etc.

 

 

[ORION]

Latest word is Durham will be borrowing ten (10) TTC buses. Apparently the fire started from a New Flyer Bus in the garage.

[J. Bullock]

8 hours ago, G.A said:

Just wait for a full report..

People are allowed to make comments..

[Megabus Rider]

13 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

What's the possibility  of leasing buses from a Bus whole saller like ABC from the US? I'm not of the requirements regarding Transport Canada rules on buses in Canada though?

Not an option, has to be bought out right, a Broker needs to be paid and a Driveaway Company needs to be hired. DRT would be better off to take on TTC's retired Orion Buses at Queensway since DRT can put in a order for total loss buses with New Flyer or Nova Bus and operate the Orion's until the replacement buses arrive. If a US Agency wants to lease, its on that Agency but ABC Companies, Transit Sales International or even Gillig won't lease outside of the US.

[ilovettc]

1 hour ago, ORION said:

Latest word is Durham will be borrowing ten (10) TTC buses. Apparently the fire started from a New Flyer Bus in the garage.

What type of TTC Buses are going to Durham Transit : Orions OG, Orion NG buses, Novabus LFS, Novabus LFS HEV or articulated Buses? if you know.

[MCIBUS]

28 minutes ago, Megabus Rider said:

Not an option, has to be bought out right, a Broker needs to be paid and a Driveaway Company needs to be hired. DRT would be better off to take on TTC's retired Orion Buses at Queensway since DRT can put in a order for total loss buses with New Flyer or Nova Bus and operate the Orion's until the replacement buses arrive. If a US Agency wants to lease, its on that Agency but ABC Companies, Transit Sales International or even Gillig won't lease outside of the US.

Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if was possible or not.

[Young]

22 minutes ago, ilovettc said:

What type of TTC Buses are going to Durham Transit : Orions OG, Orion NG buses, Novabus LFS, Novabus LFS HEV or articulated Buses? if you know.

obviously not any Novas or Artics or Flyers  

[J. Bullock]

1 hour ago, Young said:

obviously not any Novas or Artics or Flyers  

Why obviously? Durham mechanics are already well versed with Nova Bus. It would be advantageous of the region to solicit these buses specifically from the TTC in any hypothetical deal.

[Young]

8 minutes ago, J. Bullock said:

Why obviously? Durham mechanics are already well versed with Nova Bus. It would be advantageous of the region to solicit these buses specifically from the TTC in any hypothetical deal.

Why would TTC give buses that they are currently using if anything they would send the retiring OG Orions or the OG hybrids 

[2044]

4 minutes ago, Young said:

Why would TTC give buses that they are currently using if anything they would send the retiring OG Orions or the OG hybrids 

DRT never had Orion VIIs and wouldn’t want those. Especially the hybrids.

[J. Bullock]

49 minutes ago, Young said:

Why would TTC give buses that they are currently using if anything they would send the retiring OG Orions or the OG hybrids 

 

59 minutes ago, J. Bullock said:

Durham mechanics are already well versed with Nova Bus.

 

[Young]

I guess we will see what TTC offers them when the time comes

[ORION]

3 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if was possible or not.

Very possible, but also a bit complex and time consuming. They need buses immediately. Buses get imported non stop into the states and into Canada.

[blue.bird.fan]

1 hour ago, Gamer Studios said:

DRT 8507 is active, was allocated to Raleigh for a while. Seems like they are slowly getting those quarantined units back.

Is the implication here that the unit is still allocated to Raleigh?

[Toro]

 

1 hour ago, Gamer Studios said:

It's was a Raleigh allocated unit. It will probably go back to Raleigh.

 

7124 & 7111 & 7113 & 8510  back on the road and out today

They should be based out of Westney, no? I don't think Raleigh is functioning in any way due to the investigation and damage so those units should've moved to westney

[Young]

I will admit I was wrong apparently Durham is looking to borrow some 8400s from the TTC 

 

[G.A]

1 hour ago, Young said:

I will admit I was wrong apparently Durham is looking to borrow some 8400s from the TTC 

 

If it comes down to it. There is a huge surplus of school buses.