Future TTC Bus Orders

[MK78]

13 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

TTC has yet to restore all prepandemic services.

True, but they had the large spare ratio before covid because of all the funding that provided a crapload of new buses just before covid hit.

[Xtrazsteve]

15 hours ago, MK78 said:

True, but they had the large spare ratio before covid because of all the funding that provided a crapload of new buses just before covid hit.

Using the scheduled buses for AM peak in January 2020 and what is left in the fleet excluding the unreliable ebuses, the spare ratio is 22%. With the current scheduled buses, the spare ratio is 31% in the busier PM peak.

If you take out 70 buses for rotating refurbishment, that leaves the spare ratio at 18% with January 2020 schedules. So there's not a lot left especially when the OGs are getting old and the SRT shutdown coming in less than year. TTC would likely continue to suppress bus requirements as downtown office ridership remains low.

Busitution really needs to stop happening. It's such a waste of resources. Those buses could be use for overflowing routes with much less streetcars replacing them. Hope KQQR is the last major project that needs long term busitiution but it seems increasing likely TTC keeps employing them permanently rotating between projects. They been doing it for over a decade and became routine behaviour just like weekend subway shutdowns. 

[MK78]

Yeah true the never ending bustitution is a problem, and yeah the SRT shutdown will demand a lot of extra buses...

But do they even have enough bus operators (or the budget for) extra service on the real busy routes?

[Kumiko Oumae]

This can go from bad to worse but Transport Canada has recalled a number of Nova LFS built from 2013 to 2019. This affects the whole artics, 84xxs-89xxs, 92xxs, 31xxs and hybrids since they were equipped with front auxiliary lamps of a non-standard colour, such as blue lights next to the front destination sign.

[2044]

“Auxiliary lamps of non-standard colour could distract or confuse other drivers and increase the risk of a crash.”

This just sounds like coddling stupid drivers. We already do too much of that in Toronto.

[T3G]

From bad to worse? They're lamps!

They'll be replaced and everyone will forget the whole thing ever happened.

[TechnicaProductions]

17 minutes ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

This can go from bad to worse but Transport Canada has recalled a number of Nova LFS built from 2013 to 2019. This affects the whole artics, 84xxs-89xxs, 92xxs, 31xxs and hybrids since they were equipped with front auxiliary lamps of a non-standard colour, such as blue lights next to the front destination sign.

How the hell is that an issue now? These have been standard on TTC buses for well over 20 years

[tommike]

maybe no issue but also the lights are not needed any more to. only they where add to say that is a wheel chair bus. 

[TechnicaProductions]

1 minute ago, tommike said:

maybe no issue but also the lights are not needed any more to. only they where add to say that is a wheel chair bus. 

Fair but they are an iconic defining feature of TTC's buses

[tommike]

is ttc the only nova bus with blue lights?

[Kumiko Oumae]

6 minutes ago, tommike said:

is ttc the only nova bus with blue lights?

11 minutes ago, TechnicaProductions said:

Fair but they are an iconic defining feature of TTC's buses

The TTC isn’t the only system with the blue sides on the sides, but NYMTA has the flashing lights for its buses in the +selectbusservice fleet. When did they introduced the conventional accessible buses in 1996 for its 135 Orion Vs (originally intended for the Nova Classics, but failed to deliver due to logistics but they did replace many of the 90 Orion IIIs), the original blue lights on the signs means they are accessible. The LED models were introduced in 2002 with the Orion VIIs.

[T3G]

19 minutes ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

(originally intended for the Nova Classics, but failed to deliver due to logistics but they did replace many of the 90 Orion IIIs

Uh, that's not what happened with the Nova Classics at all.

The order for Nova Classics was cancelled because of inter-provincial duties on transit buses. The governments of Ontario and Quebec could not agree on the relief of duties to be paid, and Orion was ordered from instead.

[FlyerD901]

3 hours ago, T3G said:

Uh, that's not what happened with the Nova Classics at all.

The order for Nova Classics was cancelled because of inter-provincial duties on transit buses. The governments of Ontario and Quebec could not agree on the relief of duties to be paid, and Orion was ordered from instead.

Correct me on this. I thought Quebec wanting to split in 1995 had something to do with it as well?

Then again , TTC got buses built in New Mexico a couple years later. 

[Kelvin3157]

Isn’t there an option or switch to just turn off the blue lights? I think physically disconnecting or outright replacing them is a waste of time and money, plus I don’t get why it’s a big deal now

[Bus_Medic]

3 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

Isn’t there an option or switch to just turn off the blue lights? I think physically disconnecting or outright replacing them is a waste of time and money, plus I don’t get why it’s a big deal now

They’re tied into the ignition on circuit.

9 hours ago, TechnicaProductions said:

How the hell is that an issue now? These have been standard on TTC buses for well over 20 years

This appears to be a jurisdictional standoff. There was an MTO variance that only covered Ontario, I guess Transport Canada was content to look the other way until now.

9 hours ago, TechnicaProductions said:

Fair but they are an iconic defining feature of TTC's buses

That’s not Transport Canada’s concern.

[G.A]

1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

This appears to be a jurisdictional standoff. There was an MTO variance that only covered Ontario, I guess Transport Canada was content to look the other way until now.

I wonder if the TTC will fight this decision by this.

[2044]

33 minutes ago, G.A said:

I wonder if the TTC will fight this decision by this.

Probably not. Time and money replacing the lamps (no matter how much of a waste of time and money) is definitely less than the time and money fighting it.

The whole fleet is accessible now. But I will say: I really like that I can easily tell my bus is coming with the blue lights.

[Xtrazsteve]

They would look rather strange if they replaced them with white LEDs. It is indeed easier to tell with blue lights at night.

I wonder which bunch of annoying ass group lobby for the change.

[Doppelkupplung]

Its ironic how Transport Canada will go after the blue LEDs, but still allow vehicles to use red lamps for rear turn signals. 

As others have said, its not worth fighting over, but good lord is this a pathetic argument against them. Like Xtrasteve, I also want to know who came up with this. 

12 hours ago, 2044 said:

This just sounds like coddling stupid drivers. We already do too much of that in Toronto.

Could not agree more.

[81-717]

1 hour ago, 2044 said:

But I will say: I really like that I can easily tell my bus is coming with the blue lights.

Exactly, and one would think that 99.99% of drivers on the road would also be able to easily recognize the blue lights in the distance as a bus approaching.

22 minutes ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Its ironic how Transport Canada will go after the blue LEDs, but still allow vehicles to use red lamps for rear turn signals.

I wonder if the orange destination signs would also be affected.

[T3G]

14 minutes ago, 81-717 said:

Exactly, and one would think that 99.99% of drivers on the road would also be able to easily recognize the blue lights in the distance as a bus approaching.

38 minutes ago, Doppelkupplung said:

You give the drivers in this country far too much credit.

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, 81-717 said:

Exactly, and one would think that 99.99% of drivers on the road would also be able to easily recognize the blue lights in the distance as a bus approaching.

I wonder if the orange destination signs would also be affected.

Anything amber is acceptable on the front of a vehicle.

Ironically, those red balios signs in Quebec would theoretically be a problem. Go figure. I guess the multi coloured signs would be a violation if anything but amber or white are used, taking the regulation to the absurd end.

(stream of consciousness post warning)

If the commission did want to dig in its heels, there’s still the argument that the lights are useful for partially sighted passengers waiting at stops to pick the bus out from other traffic….although taking that to its logical conclusion, they could mistakenly step out in front of snow removal equipment with horrifying results…It kind of reinforces both sides.
 

Red, Green and purple are also taken….

I would reason their needs should come before a motorist’s though, who had to pass a baseline visual cognitive test to drive in the first place.

Unfortunately, even attempting to persuade the government to see it that way is an expensive uphill battle with public money.

[Keee]

Orion, New Flyer, BYD......they all have the blue light in front. Cannot understand why only Novas get recalled.

[Bus_Medic]

27 minutes ago, Keee said:

Orion, New Flyer, BYD......they all have the blue light in front. Cannot understand why only Novas get recalled.

Flyer might come out with one yet for what it’s worth.

There’s some procedural formality at work here. It’s plainly obvious to anyone in the business that this so specific to only one customer in Canada.

Publishing a recall is a way of removing liability from novabus should an accident come of it. This is their fair warning to everyone else. 
At the end of the day, it’s up to the TTC wether or not to act, but now that the information is formally out in the public domain, nobody can hold novabus itself liable for future damages.

[Xtrazsteve]

Has there been proof these blue lights have caused or almost result in an accident? 

I would like to see the TTC not "recall" their buses if there is no harm..