Streetcar News

[Orion V]

2 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Thanks! My wife hasnt been on a streetcar before, so I wanted to take her on a ride from Long Branch like I did as a kid. GOOGLE MAPS says the 507 is a bus right now, but you know its a streetcar again, I will try the 507. Thanks for the update

Yes I can confirm 507 is streetcars too. Don't worry.

[nfitz]

The current map is relatively accurate for the current service. Other than there being only buses on 512, and with 504/505 replaced by a shuttle bus from Broadview and Sumach respectively, to Broadview station. (the 505 instead turns onto Gerrard/Coxwell/Queen to Woodbine (Kingston Road) loop.

Of course there'll be more changes to many routes on February 18.
  

So instead of one 501 streetcar from Long Branch to Neville Loop near Victoria Park, you take 4 streetcars (because of the Ontario subway construction at Queen/Yonge), pretty much in a straight line. A 507 streetcar to Humber loop. A 501C streetcar to the 504A at Roncesvalles. Then a 504A streetcar to the 501D streetcar somewhere between Dufferin and Sumach. Alternatively you could take the 501B replacement bus instead of a 504A which stays on Queen (mostly) from Bathurst to Broadview.

[ttc rider]

4605 was the first car to test out the new track on Broadview north of Gerrard this evening February 9.

[J_Meyer]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:48 PM, TTC7909 said:

Bolded fleet numbers at the front, with the non-patterned flush seats. If you're a transit worker like me though, you can look into the internal electronics and see visible upgrades. Nothing too flashy though.

 

Hope this helps!

How do I apply to become a contracted TBM cleaner like you to gain access to these internal electronics?

[TTC7909]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:04 PM, CJ. said:

Why would 4468 and 4534 be retired less than 10 years into their lifespan. Are you sure they are already retiring them? And were these accident cars?

 

I feel like they are on hold for parts from bombardier if they were accident cars. Or if these were the flood cars, I don’t know I don’t keep track of streetcars but it’s very interesting if they pull the switch on them already

I don't make the rules or the decisions, 4534 looks like a very troubling, but doable fix — 4468 however, not so much. Just because they're pulling parts off it doesn't mean it's retired, but it's how they're doing it makes me believe that the rumors are true.

[Byfold]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, J_Meyer said:

How do I apply to become a contracted TBM cleaner like you to gain access to these internal electronics?

Did you consult Google? 

[J_Meyer]

2 hours ago, Byfold said:

Did you consult Google? 

Yep.

13 hours ago, TTC7909 said:

I don't make the rules or the decisions, 4534 looks like a very troubling, but doable fix — 4468 however, not so much. Just because they're pulling parts off it doesn't mean it's retired, but it's how they're doing it makes me believe that the rumors are true.

I’m curious. Does this cleaning job eventually open opportunities to become a “transit mechanic”? I would love to know your pathway & experience!

[Articulated]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, J_Meyer said:

How do I apply to become a contracted TBM cleaner like you to gain access to these internal electronics?

25 minutes ago, J_Meyer said:

Yep.

I’m curious. Does this cleaning job eventually open opportunities to become a “transit mechanic”? I would love to know your pathway & experience!

There is a separate forum for employment-related questions, so that they do not clutter up the main topics. I recommend you move your discussion over there before an administrator does.

[Bus_Medic]

5 hours ago, J_Meyer said:

Yep.

I’m curious. Does this cleaning job eventually open opportunities to become a “transit mechanic”? I would love to know your pathway & experience!

Absolutely not.

[J_Meyer]

1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

Absolutely not.

Interesting. Great to know! So essentially, if I apply for the TBM streetcar cleaning job that TTC7909 has, it does not make me a so-called "transit mechanic" with no actual credible knowledge of streetcar parts and components.

Thanks!

[York Transit]

6 hours ago, J_Meyer said:

Interesting. Great to know! So essentially, if I apply for the TBM streetcar cleaning job that TTC7909 has, it does not make me a so-called "transit mechanic" with no actual credible knowledge of streetcar parts and components.

Thanks!

No, but it's a start if you want a career in transit. You never know where you will end up.

I became a TBM employee, though not at TTC. I was just happy to have a job. You get to drive buses through the wash, fuel them, top up the fluids. It was fairly rote, boring but the people I worked with were really cool.

After a year of cleaning buses, I simply walked into the office, told them I already work here and applied to become an operator. Another year after that, I unexpectedly became a Transit Supervisor. My one regret is not taking up their offer to go into the Control Centre, I was basically being forced to go but I said please for the love of god no lol. And right before I left for another transit agency, they asked me if I was interested in training new bus operators, which I absolutely would have said yes to but they asked me the day after my interview and there's no way I'm passing on a municipal job that pays $38/hour.

I would say this job opens the door more towards operations rather than maintenance. You never get to touch the internal electronics and stuff, you get to operate it though. I still don't know how a bus works You have to go to college to become a skilled mechanic before you can really get a job in maintenance. It's not something someone can walk in off the street and get hired for without any skills.

[dowlingm]

If we’re retiring Flexity streetcars, let’s put one on Queens Quay East and one on the New Cherry Bridge as an art exhibit “things you might see if you live long enough - like, 30 years”

[dover5949]

Seen someone's youtube video of 4612 being transported on CP #420. How many more is the TTC Expecting?

Thanks

[Xtrazsteve]

20 minutes ago, dover5949 said:

Seen someone's youtube video of 4612 being transported on CP #420. How many more is the TTC Expecting?

Thanks

10% of the order is complete now. 4663 will be the last one

[drum118]

9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

10% of the order is complete now. 4663 will be the last one

4612 is waiting to be off loaded at Hillcrest 

4611 may entre service around March 15 once the SWIS is install 

4610 has crap out twice  so far and has yet to see a full day of service, Been in the service bay again since Thursdays when it crap out after spending 2 days from the first crap out.

4608 has seen 3 crap out within day of entering service

If they keep the rolling in cars at the current rate, all 60 cars maybe here by end of 2024 to mid March 2025

Still like to know what is plan for the 2 cars that have been in TB for the past year to either they will be rebuilt or scrap, leaving TTC a few cars short for the next 26 years.

On 2/16/2024 at 7:45 AM, dowlingm said:

If we’re retiring Flexity streetcars, let’s put one on Queens Quay East and one on the New Cherry Bridge as an art exhibit “things you might see if you live long enough - like, 30 years”

[dover5949]

Thanks for your info as it is very much appreciated. Are these for service expansion? Nice to see the TTC spend some money verses Translink out here in Vancouver!

[GTAmissions1]

12 minutes ago, dover5949 said:

Thanks for your info as it is very much appreciated. Are these for service expansion? Nice to see the TTC spend some money verses Translink out here in Vancouver!

4604 to 4663 are indeed for service expansion beyond the base order of 204 streetcars to meet growing demand. 

204 streetcars were the base order to completely replace the CLRVs/ALRVs. 60 additional streetcars were to ensure that future ridership growth can be accommodated without the risk of cutting service or deploying streetcar shuttle buses. 

[Xtrazsteve]

Some history here.

Back in the 2000s there were 195 CLRVs and 52 ALRVs. It was known that 204 LFLRVs were able to replace their capacity but at a much wider headway. 

In order to bring the headway back to what it was, they needed more cars. At the time, TTC didn’t exercise the option for more cars as delivery was plagued with problems. At the time Bombardier seriously underbidded to win the order and TTC missed out on the great pricing of the base order vehicles.

By the time service implementation time, they quickly realize these vehicles are slower to operate. Same as artics replacing standard buses as there are more people boarding with wider headways. 

Today, lines operated at least 10 percent slower making these new cars more desirable. However, the post Covid downtown workforce is weaker than before. They really didn’t need these streetcars after all for the foreseeable future.

—-

Of topic but when ML renegotiated the vehicles for the Crosstown (which was originally an option to the original contract), they ended up paying a ton more for nothing. They feared when the line was to open in 2020, there will be no vehicles. So let’s laugh at those idiots wasting our tax dollars like eating salad.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

13 hours ago, drum118 said:

4612 is waiting to be off loaded at Hillcrest 

4611 may entre service around March 15 once the SWIS is install 

4610 has crap out twice  so far and has yet to see a full day of service, Been in the service bay again since Thursdays when it crap out after spending 2 days from the first crap out.

4608 has seen 3 crap out within day of entering service

If they keep the rolling in cars at the current rate, all 60 cars maybe here by end of 2024 to mid March 2025

Still like to know what is plan for the 2 cars that have been in TB for the past year to either they will be rebuilt or scrap, leaving TTC a few cars short for the next 26 years.

Is there something wrong with these new ones?

[drum118]

20 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Is there something wrong with these new ones?

From what I have seen from tracking them and compared to the existing fleet I will say yes starting with quality control.

Major of them have to be tow to the barns compare been driven for the major of the current fleet. The current fleet was taking 8-12 days to entre service with a number been higher, but not one of the new cars have yet to see service under 26 days yet. TTC may not be spending as much time preparing the car for testing as they have to make sure there are cars from the current fleet that need to be done first to put service on the road.

4610 is still in the service bay where it been since Thursday afternoon when it crap out the 2nd try for service after a few hours. It crap out less an hour after enter service and then spend 2 days in the service bay.

Don't know at this time if 4612 has been off loaded that been at Hillcrest dock since Thursday

[drum118]

On 3/10/2024 at 6:37 AM, Xtrazsteve said:

Some history here.

Back in the 2000s there were 195 CLRVs and 52 ALRVs. It was known that 204 LFLRVs were able to replace their capacity but at a much wider headway. 

In order to bring the headway back to what it was, they needed more cars. At the time, TTC didn’t exercise the option for more cars as delivery was plagued with problems. At the time Bombardier seriously underbidded to win the order and TTC missed out on the great pricing of the base order vehicles.

By the time service implementation time, they quickly realize these vehicles are slower to operate. Same as artics replacing standard buses as there are more people boarding with wider headways. 

Today, lines operated at least 10 percent slower making these new cars more desirable. However, the post Covid downtown workforce is weaker than before. They really didn’t need these streetcars after all for the foreseeable future.

—-

Of topic but when ML renegotiated the vehicles for the Crosstown (which was originally an option to the original contract), they ended up paying a ton more for nothing. They feared when the line was to open in 2020, there will be no vehicles. So let’s laugh at those idiots wasting our tax dollars like eating salad.

All you were doing was moving from from one cattle car to another going to 204 cars with no expansion for increase of pent up demand for service, more strollers, bikes and most of all the accessibility community. 252 cars should have been order on day one doing a 1:1 replacement and that has been my position since day one.

There was no real bidding for the new fleet as it was known in early 2000's that the order was going to TB for job protection as well MPP seats. Unless another bidder had a plant setup in Canada, TB was going to get a real bid for the new cars.

BBD try to pull the stunt that they used on Minneapolis cars since they didn't have streetcars to know better like TTC and got caught with their pants down since TTC had been dealing with streetcar since 1911. BBD had no choice to pull the work from Mexico to meet TTC standards at great cost and delays, Ordering the more cars was to happen by x date and the 60th car that was never meet. BBD fail to meet all the new dates they said to meet the contract. August 29, 2014 was the reopening of service on 510 and all service to Union Station where all 14/18 cars for 510 would only be the new cars. When it open, only 2 cars were on hand for the line that day and this change TTC plan how it was to put the new cars into service since it was to be a line by line. It ended up as a mix bag with the ALRV's not seeing service over a year once winter hit and the first to be fully scrap.

TTC planning has always been bottom line and not moving to the right equipment to meet the line and that is where the artic's come into play. TTC had bad experience with artic's in the past and why it took so long before showing up

TTC did go to the market to see what could be had for the new 60 cars, but job protection got in the way.

Yes service is slower today that is caused by more traffic on the road as well riders themselves trying to get on peak and crush load cars than wait for the next one.

[FlyerD901]

3 hours ago, drum118 said:

 

BBD try to pull the stunt that they used on Minneapolis cars since they didn't have streetcars to know better on TTC and got caught with their pants down since TTC had been dealing with streetcar since 1911. BBD had no choice to pull the work from Mexico to meet TTC standards at great cost and delays, Ordering the more cars was to happen by x date and the 60th car that was never meet. BBD fail to meet all the new dates they said to meet the contract. August 29, 2014 was the reopening of service on 510 and all service to Union Station where all 14/18 cars for 510 would only be the new cars. When it open, only 2 cars were on hand for the line that day and this change TTC plan how it was to put the new cars into service since it was to be a line by line. It ended up as a mix bag with the ALRV's not seeing service over a year once winter hit and the first to be fully scrap.

How true is the statement that BBD was caught with their pants down regarding the Minneapolis LRVs? From what I remember, city council wanted to go 100% low floor so they couldn't use those cars anyways. They would need another model. Plus the Minneapolis LRVs cars was just a demo, they new it was just an idea of what to get. It's well known by BBD and TTC that those cars wasn't going to fit in the existing network. And a modified version of them would be made for TTC. 

As for the current cars being too slow, which is a another major contributing factor is TTCs operating procedures, and to be honest the cars being way too long. I get the capacity to operator ratio reasoning. But it's still makes for a negative experience. I think the only area that should have been taken into consideration was bidirectional cars. It doesn't mean you have to make crossovers at end of the line locations, it could have been done over time.

Also, TTC was the one that said it's best to stick with BBD for the extra cars than go searching for another manufacturer.

Probably some politics behind the scenes, with everything regarding TTC business. 

 

 

[drum118]

9 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

How true is the statement that BBD was caught with their pants down regarding the Minneapolis LRVs? From what I remember, city council wanted to go 100% low floor so they couldn't use those cars anyways. They would need another model. Plus the Minneapolis LRVs cars was just a demo, they new it was just an idea of what to get. It's well known by BBD and TTC that those cars wasn't going to fit in the existing network. And a modified version of them would be made for TTC. 

As for the current cars being too slow, which is a another major contributing factor is TTCs operating procedures, and to be honest the cars being way too long. I get the capacity to operator ratio reasoning. But it's still makes for a negative experience. I think the only area that should have been taken into consideration was bidirectional cars. It doesn't mean you have to make crossovers at end of the line locations, it could have been done over time.

Also, TTC was the one that said it's best to stick with BBD for the extra cars than go searching for another manufacturer.

Probably some politics behind the scenes, with everything regarding TTC business. 

 

 

TTC did an RFQ for the 60 cars with a number of suppliers wanting the order, but politics got in the way.

BBD and Siemens S70 cars could not work in pairs after Siemens got the order of the extra cars. Siemens has ended up with most of the LRV's been built in the US since BBD  botch Minneapolis order. Even though council wanted 100% low floor, they got 70% that is standard for other systems in the US. 

The cars should have been bidirectional cars with a lot of crossover to deal with road closures and short turning. It would got rid of the problem loops and free up land use using stub end tracks.

The cars are not long compared to the 42-55m cars found in Europe that do run in mix traffic in a number of locations. They will operate better in the ROW on 512, 510, 509, the Queensway, Cherry St and the plan QQE extension. Phoenix and Minneapolis run 3 100 car train sets with Phoenix running 2 cars at various times. Until quality of service improve on most routes after construction is finish, service will be poor in the long run. Some of those issues start with some drivers who like to drive as a Sunday driver

As for ROW in Europe, they just have a line painted on the road telling traffic to keep out and only use it when there is a problem in their lane for a large number of routes. Even with a true ROW, they still run at the speed limit of the road from my trips on them.

All future orders for TTC should go to the market, but the problem doing so is the fact that there are only 2 suppliers in Canada with a plant. Unless you follow what Ottawa did by going off shore for their LRV, it will be hard for other suppliers to get their foot in the door. The province going off shore for the OL cars has open that door for the next order of T2's to replace the TR1's that will replace the T1's

[81-717]

11 hours ago, drum118 said:

The province going off shore for the OL cars has open that door for the next order of T2's to replace the TR1's that will replace the T1's

Nitpick: there's no such thing as a T2 (unless the T1s were to be rebuilt with modifications significant enough as to not be considered T1s anymore). The TRs are most certainly not T2s, and neither are the hypothetical T1 replacements (I assume you really meant "the next order that will replace the T1s" rather than "the next order that will replace the T1 replacements").

[drum118]

3 hours ago, 81-717 said:

Nitpick: there's no such thing as a T2 (unless the T1s were to be rebuilt with modifications significant enough as to not be considered T1s anymore). The TRs are most certainly not T2s, and neither are the hypothetical T1 replacements (I assume you really meant "the next order that will replace the T1s" rather than "the next order that will replace the T1 replacements").

I use TR2 as the next generation and miss the R when I type T2 and never noticed it. 

As in the past, the T1's will be replace by the TR's that will move from Line 1 and they will be replace by the TR2's that should be 500' long 7 section trains. The talk of going to 7 section has been around a long time since they are needed on Line 1 years ago.

Depending who you talked to, some say the TR2 will go to Line 2 while other say Line 1 and it makes no different to me as to which Line will end up with the new fleet other the T1's are removed. If 7 section, needs to be Line 1.