GO Transit

[81-717]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:48 PM, Ed T. said:

"Citation needed" also according to wiki.

Yes I saw that. Still gives a rough idea though.

On 2/20/2024 at 12:48 PM, Ed T. said:

And that's with both side doors open. Without toxic smoke and a fire blocking possibly one or both ends. And conveniently at a station with a platform and stuff.

I'm assuming the 90 seconds was referring to an emergency evacuation (i.e. as fast as possible), and not a regular boarding/disembarking in service. I'm sure they could open doors on both sides in an emergency, nor do I see why they couldn't evacuate to track level, since even subway evacuation in the tunnel would also take place on track level (that's what the TR emergency ramp is for), despite subway tracks being an even more restricted space than railway tracks (the SRT derailment evacuation being one example, which wasn't even underground, but out in the open, right beside the GO tracks too).

On 2/20/2024 at 1:33 PM, T3G said:

and there tends to be quite a bit of clutter, from what I've noticed, by the lineside (extra rails, sleepers, etc) that people could trip over.

Same thing south of Rosedale station.

Edited February 23 by 81-717

[T3G]

27 minutes ago, 81-717 said:

nor do I see why they couldn't evacuate to track level, since even subway evacuation in the tunnel would also take place on track level (that's what the TR emergency ramp is for), despite subway tracks being an even more restricted space than railway tracks.

On the subway, there aren't many places in the tunnel where evacuating from the side would occur. I think the Sheppard line may have a few sections where there is a wide walkway to the side of the train, but don't quote me on that.

Thus, most subway trains that would be evacuated would be evacuated from one cab end or the other, and there will be an employee that will tell people where they can go (that is, until capitalism's death cult removes employees from all trains). As well, many, though certainly not all, tunnels are somewhat segregated from the opposite direction tunnel.

No such luck in the case of GO; someone leaping out of a burning BiLevel will find themselves on a 2, 3, 4 track line, there is no employee to tell them where it is safe for them to go unless the fire conveniently happens in the accessibility coach, a train going in the other direction might hit them, and there tends to be quite a bit of clutter, from what I've noticed, by the lineside (extra rails, sleepers, etc) that people could trip over. Imagine someone leaping from a BiLevel right down this overgrown embankment:

 

[Ed T.]

3 hours ago, 81-717 said:

Yes I saw that. Still gives a rough idea though.

I'm assuming the 90 seconds was referring to an emergency evacuation (i.e. as fast as possible), and not a regular boarding/disembarking in service. I'm sure they could open doors on both sides in an emergency, nor do I see why they couldn't evacuate to track level, since even subway evacuation in the tunnel would also take place on track level (that's what the TR emergency ramp is for), despite subway tracks being an even more restricted space than railway tracks.

The wikipedia statement reads, to me, how quickly everyone can get off with all four doors open.

Quote

They hold 136–162 seated passengers and 276 standees (depending on coach series and seat configuration) and have two pairs of doors on each side that allow the entire coach to be emptied in 90 seconds.

Obviously with the TTC, evacuation to track level will be slow, and should only happen after a power cut which would both stop all trains in the area as well as make the third rail safe. However, that's all under the control of the TTC. I have no idea how quickly train traffic can be halted on one of GO's tracks to handle and evacuation.

I believe I have read stories about people being trapped on GO trains between stations when there were incidents halting trains. People were not allowed off. I would hope that the training and procedures for a critical incident will allow the staff to actually make the decision to abandon train.

Finally, subway cars mostly don't hold that many people, and passage is a lot easier without single-file stairs. I'm not saying that a fire in a subway train would be easy to deal with, but at the same time I think a fire would be harder to deal with on a GO bi-level. And furthermore I don't think TTC subway trains have anywhere near the number of e-bikes on at one time as the Kitchener line.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2024/02/food-delivery-bikes-go-trains/

See the pics in that blogto article.

[nfitz]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:13 PM, Ed T. said:

I would hope that the training and procedures for a critical incident will allow the staff to actually make the decision to abandon train.

I'd think in a critical incident it's quite likely that the one attendant for the 12-car train would no longer be able to communicate to all the passengers. Especially if cars become detached. 

We've seen before that passengers know how to get out the windows when there's an incident. 

[Gil]

22 hours ago, Ed T. said:

The wikipedia statement reads, to me, how quickly everyone can get off with all four doors open.

Obviously with the TTC, evacuation to track level will be slow, and should only happen after a power cut which would both stop all trains in the area as well as make the third rail safe. However, that's all under the control of the TTC. I have no idea how quickly train traffic can be halted on one of GO's tracks to handle and evacuation.

I believe I have read stories about people being trapped on GO trains between stations when there were incidents halting trains. People were not allowed off. I would hope that the training and procedures for a critical incident will allow the staff to actually make the decision to abandon train.

Finally, subway cars mostly don't hold that many people, and passage is a lot easier without single-file stairs. I'm not saying that a fire in a subway train would be easy to deal with, but at the same time I think a fire would be harder to deal with on a GO bi-level. And furthermore I don't think TTC subway trains have anywhere near the number of e-bikes on at one time as the Kitchener line.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2024/02/food-delivery-bikes-go-trains/

See the pics in that blogto article.

There's a difference between trains being halted between stations for an incident at track level (collision, debris on tracks, frozen switch) where passengers are kept on board and one that requires an evacuation of the train, which I believe a fire would constitute as such.  I've been on the odd GO train where the bottom level is so full of bikes that some have been hauled up to the middle level on both ends of the train.  Battery fires tend to be catastrophic and will likely cause other e-bikes to catch fire in a chain reaction.  If the exits are blocked because of the sheer volume of e-bikes on board and egress to adjoining cars is hindered then this is going to turn into a larger issue.  I can only imagine what would happen if the hoard of e-bikes coincided with a game or concert and a fire broke out.  Your only option may be to jump from the windows on the upper level of a train coach which has hopefully come to an emergency stop.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:42 PM, T3G said:

I disagree. To me, the actual number of trains is irrelevant (what if it was a line that was served by only one freight train at 1 am? That would cause more disruption than 100 freight trains in the daytime if you are a light sleeper).

If one moves to the biggest city in the country, and buys a house by a railway line, and then cries foul about trains using that line, they might be an idiot of biblical scale. If they want peace and quiet, there's plenty of tiny villages up north that may be more their speed - and there's plenty of leafy, tree-lined streets lined with single family homes all over the city, too.

Maybe for folks who are privileged enough to work 9-5. These new lines running through old neighbourhoods don't exactly have new dwellings built to modern standards and Metrolinx isn't spending a dime to help people upgrade their homes.

I'll still disagree. Actual number of trains matters. Expanded GO and VIA service along a mainline corridor would have been reasonably expected. People justifiably have beef with a new service using necessarily high frequency mini trains over new segregated infrastructure which was on nobody's radar or agenda until the day before yesterday when Metrolinx arrived on the scene and held everybody up at gunpoint.

 

[GTAmissions1]

Go Transit and Union Pearson Express is planning to update their digital information screens to be better modernized. 

Right now, they will be rolled out at Union Pearson Express Stations. Before rolling out to Union Station and then eventually all Go Train station. A total of 1,400 digital info screens to update to the new format. 

Here are the differences with the new digital screen info:

• Unique colours for each line (ex. Kitchener Line is green, Barrie Line is blue)
• Icons to identify accessibility features
• Lightning bolt symbols to indicate express trains
• Screens will also display how long your train is

Link below:

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-up-express-digital-screens-getting-a-makeover

[Gil]

1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit and Union Pearson Express is planning to update their digital information screens to be better modernized. 

Right now, they will be rolled out at Union Pearson Express Stations. Before rolling out to Union Station and then eventually all Go Train station. A total of 1,400 digital info screens to update to the new format. 

Here are the differences with the new digital screen info:

• Unique colours for each line (ex. Kitchener Line is green, Barrie Line is blue)
• Icons to identify accessibility features
• Lightning bolt symbols to indicate express trains
• Screens will also display how long your train is

Link below:

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-up-express-digital-screens-getting-a-makeover

I do hope they also switch to a scrolling list of stations instead of cramming as many as they can before displaying the next set.  If you're not paying attention to the period at the end of the list and are unfamiliar with the stations, it's a lot of reading if you miss seeing your station.

I'd also love to see somewhere in the station a display listing of all the stations (along with the appropriate colour coding) and the departure time for the next train or two along with the platform number.  The Bay St. Concourse has line maps, but you still need to know which line your station is on. 

Something similar too for the bus terminal.  If they can coordinate it with the other carriers, it'd help people looking to get to say Niagara Falls or Montreal where you have multiple carriers wanting to take the next one available. 

[Ed T.]

Some questions!

1. I was heading to Union to catch the 22:17 LW train. There was an extra 22:02 LW listed, presumably for the Leafs game that just got out. I was going to ignore it as usual, but it was an all-stops train....usually these evening extras run express to Port Credit. Is this something new they're trying? Train was going only to Burlington.
2. Is there a historical record of running times? Union to Long Branch and vice versa is now 25-26 minutes typically. I seem to recall 23 minutes when stopping at Exhibition, 21 if not stopping there. And last nights 22:02 pulled into Long Branch, after stopping at Exhibition and Mimico. at 22:22. So 20 minutes flat. Wish they were all like that.
3. Is there some secret to wifi on GO trains? My laptop picks up wifi all over, libraries, stores, VIA rail trains. But for GO, there is nothing listed in the available networks when I check (multiple times and trains). Is this some kind of cell-phone only, bluetooth, something or other?

[Ed T.]

And there was an extra LW train Saturday night, scheduled for 22:30. It was of the express-to-Port-Credit variety. Fortunately I could catch the 22:14 and be on my way. Now I'm wondering if Thursday evening's all-stops extra was a one-off.

And I'm still wondering about the wifi.

[GTAmissions1]

From the recent newsletter here: https://mailchi.mp/metrolinx.com/toronto-west-newsletter-aug-18-13367688?e=1223569a25#Service Changes

At the bottom regarding service changes/impacts noted below:

Starting Sunday, April 28, GO rail will see the largest service expansion since 2013, with increased service on Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East, Kitchener, Stouffville and Milton lines. There will be 308 new weekly rail trips, which is a 15% increase (from 1,999 to 2,307 total weekly trips) from current state. See below for details by line.

Bus and some rail services will change on April 27; however, most rail service changes will take place on April 28 to align with our operating crew’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, as a result of such a large weekend service enhancement.

Overview of GO train service changes (April 28)

· On the Lakeshore West line, service will increase to 15-minute frequency on weekend afternoons and evenings between Oakville GO and Union Station.

· On the Lakeshore East line, service will increase to 15-minute frequency on weekend afternoons and evenings between Durham College Oshawa GO and Union Station.

· On the Kitchener line, we’re introducing approximately 30-minute weekday service in the midday and evenings between Bramalea GO and Union Station.

· On the Stouffville line, evening train service after 7 p.m. returns seven days a week.

· On the Milton line, one additional morning rush hour trip to Union Station and one afternoon rush hour trip to Milton GO.

· Some trips on the following lines will be adjusted to depart up to nine minutes earlier or later to better align with actual travel times, and new and connecting services: Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East, Milton, Kitchener, Barrie, Stouffville.

· Some weekend Kitchener line service trips will be increased to 10 cars long to provide more space for customers.

Final comments:

This is pretty massive working to add more frequent service along Lakeshore West and East lines along with Kitchener noting the capacity issues they have been facing with passengers boarding with bikes in large volume. 

[nfitz]

I wonder what "afternoon" means.

[Orion V]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I wonder what "afternoon" means.

After 12pm

[WoodbineSecondExit]

20 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

From the recent newsletter here: https://mailchi.mp/metrolinx.com/toronto-west-newsletter-aug-18-13367688?e=1223569a25#Service Changes

At the bottom regarding service changes/impacts noted below:

Starting Sunday, April 28, GO rail will see the largest service expansion since 2013, with increased service on Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East, Kitchener, Stouffville and Milton lines. There will be 308 new weekly rail trips, which is a 15% increase (from 1,999 to 2,307 total weekly trips) from current state. See below for details by line.

How does that compare with pre-pandemic levels?

[Articulated]

21 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

How does that compare with pre-pandemic levels?

It is difficult to compare. Some of these changes are simply returning to pre-COVID levels, such as evening service on Stouffville; some changes are beyond anything pre-COVID levels (Lakeshore never had service above 30 min on weekends); and yet many parts of the network are not back to pre-COVID service levels (namely rush hour service on all lines, plus Lakeshore used to have 15 min service weekday middays).

That being said, we're now arriving at 4 years since COVID hit, and we need to stop thinking about getting "back to how things used to be" and start orienting the future to how society has evolved.

[Gil]

14 minutes ago, Articulated said:

It is difficult to compare. Some of these changes are simply returning to pre-COVID levels, such as evening service on Stouffville; some changes are beyond anything pre-COVID levels (Lakeshore never had service above 30 min on weekends); and yet many parts of the network are not back to pre-COVID service levels (namely rush hour service on all lines, plus Lakeshore used to have 15 min service weekday middays).

That being said, we're now arriving at 4 years since COVID hit, and we need to stop thinking about getting "back to how things used to be" and start orienting the future to how society has evolved.

The downward spiral of the 21 MILTON GO bus service since it was restructured to feed into the Lakeshore West line which used to run every 20 minutes on weekends, to every 30 minutes to match the train schedule.  The transfer and travel time caused ridership to fall which then resulted in the schedule dropping to hourly (which surprised me given they implemented that change at Labour Day).

I'd rather be stuck in traffic with 20 or even 30 minute frequencies if it means a single seat ride.  With the One Fare program now including the TTC, maybe running into Kipling with the upcoming work on the Gardiner?  The 29 GUELPH/MISSISSAUGA connects at Erin Mills Transitway and Square One, but I don't think the schedules are coordinated with the 21 MILTON. 

With the Lakeshore going to 15 minute service I hope they restore the minimum 30-minute frequency with possibly an alternate 30-minute service to Kipling.

[nfitz]

5 hours ago, Orion V said:

After 12pm

I'm surprised - though I don't know why they wouldn't restore the service from 9 am to noon.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

15 hours ago, Articulated said:

It is difficult to compare. Some of these changes are simply returning to pre-COVID levels, such as evening service on Stouffville; some changes are beyond anything pre-COVID levels (Lakeshore never had service above 30 min on weekends); and yet many parts of the network are not back to pre-COVID service levels (namely rush hour service on all lines, plus Lakeshore used to have 15 min service weekday middays).

That being said, we're now arriving at 4 years since COVID hit, and we need to stop thinking about getting "back to how things used to be" and start orienting the future to how society has evolved.

I know the Lakeshore service is overall new but it was the 2,307 weekly trips I was thinking about. With Metrolinx framing it as "the largest service expansion since 2013" I was interested in how it compared to prior service levels to determine if their announcement was in the same vein as the TTC's 1984-esque messaging and self-congratulatory back-patting.

[Cityflyer]

How come they cannot extend the 15min service on weekends to Burlington GO Stn since Metrolinx owns the track up to slightly west of this station?

Between Burlington GO Stn and Aldershot GO Stn, even though CN owns this section of the track, is it possible for GO to run all day frequent trains? Are there enough tracks there with CN running their mainline freight trains through this section?

[brianc1981]

My assumption with this, would be that on weekends when there are events, a lot of trains get fairly full from Burlington area as it is. Then with the 15 minute service from Oakville to Union it would mean more seats available for people getting on east of Oakville station. 

That is my only thought, otherwise it doesn't really make sense. 

[Ed T.]

Maybe it's a case of how they could schedule trains and keep them out of each other's way.

[John Oke]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:38 AM, Cityflyer said:

How come they cannot extend the 15min service on weekends to Burlington GO Stn since Metrolinx owns the track up to slightly west of this station?

Between Burlington GO Stn and Aldershot GO Stn, even though CN owns this section of the track, is it possible for GO to run all day frequent trains? Are there enough tracks there with CN running their mainline freight trains through this section?

It's easier to turn a train at Oakville than Burlington without blocking tracks.

[newflyerinvero]

In addition, there's a reason that Metrolinx is moving forward with the Burloak Grade Seoeration for that kind of high frequency GO service, but haven't said anything about what to do with the Kerr Street Grade Seperation.

[Oc4526]

Found this in my news feed. 
 

Metrolinx moves to ban some e-bikes from GO trains

[Ed T.]

April 8.....

 

The QEW is guaranteed to be an utter disaster. Why not take GO? They must have plans, huh?