PRESTO - GTA Discussion

[Transit geek]

16 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They cannot guarantee the bus will always have internet. There can be also sorts of problem such as general equipment failure, presto server problem, network downtime, VISION equipment failure, GPS failure, etc. They need to be able to do things offline.

Of course, offline functionality would remain as a backup. In fact, this could apply to all the transit agencies, but I don't this is possible currently with the PRESTO equipment they are using. As an example, there are a number of occasions when I got free rides on a GO bus because the PRESTO unit was not working and the operator received authorization from the dispatcher to not charge any fares for that particular trip. I understand how this is critical because GO fares are heavily variable based on distance travelled; however, I believe the TTC's offline functionality would be of benefit to the local transit agencies, which almost entirely charge flat fares for rides, varying only by age.

[Xtrazsteve]

Most of the Presto functionality must be able to be performed offline. It should be pretty simple. The op simply chooses what fares to charge and the presto reader will deduct the same amount of fare. Of course those paying fare in York Region must inform if they intend to pay YRT only or  YRT+TTC. This situation would likely end within a decade when YRT starts operating most TTC contracted routes. 

Even with internet, the readers shouldn't be updating databases every minute. You can't expect the data to be updated the minute someone loads money on their presto card. It will take significant cpu usage to do such tasks and consume lots of cellular data. As presto matures, the size of their database increases and so will the number of entries. I wonder what would be the increase annual cost of all these new technology.

The VISION unit would need internet itself for its functionality that has nothing to do with presto. Hopefully they will have a almost perfect uptime unlike the presto readers.

[Flalex72]

On 2017-06-09 at 7:56 PM, Transit geek said:

Regarding potential implementation of YRT/VIVA fare payment by PRESTO on TTC vehicles brought up in another thread, I came up with this interesting observation (correct me if I get anything wrong, please and thank you):

I'd like to add to the above by remarking that the VISION system would provide a great means of a user interface to monitor the activity of the PRESTO reader. However, I'm not too sure if the VISION supports this, as I've seen Oakville Transit use the separate Thales operator terminal and readers, which I assume are constantly in wireless communication with the PRESTO server to instantly deduct fares from the cards, so that it is reflected on subsequent trips by any agency. The TTC, however, uses only standalone readers at each door which function independently (I've seen one with a BSOD while the other was operating normally), and feature no operator UI whatsoever. I suppose that the way they work is that they simply record the details of the cards into their internal storage, and are uploaded to the PRESTO server only when the bus returns to the garage, so the fare might not be immediately updated if the user is connecting from another vehicle and/or agency (and that is probably why the readers do not show the updated card balance upon tapping).

Since the VISION terminals are always connected to the Intranet, it would make sense for the PRESTO data to be transmitted via their network, and the touchscreen would provide an ideal means of performing the same kind of functions that the Thales operator terminal would do, possibly via the creation of an internal network specific to each vehicle, if not wired. All in all, this systems integration would make it fairly straightforward to configure the reader to charge different fares, such as the Downtown Express premium or cross-border YRT/MiWay fares, thus avoiding the need for passengers to carry supplementary fares and hence easing the transition away from physical tokens and passes.

In Ottawa, the readers function independently, but are connected to the Clever Devices CAD/AVL system. That allowed the fare to automatically be set as regular or express when that was still a thing, and the status of the front door reader was shown on the driver's Clever Devices screen.

[newflyerinvero]

46 minutes ago, Flalex72 said:

In Ottawa, the readers function independently, but are connected to the Clever Devices CAD/AVL system. That allowed the fare to automatically be set as regular or express when that was still a thing, and the status of the front door reader was shown on the driver's Clever Devices screen.

Oakville Transit uses Clever Devices as well. I would suspect that the same setup is with Oakville except that there's no difference with local or express fares as there aren't any. Just one set of fares. Only difference is when people are coming off the GO bus or train at Oakville, Brone or Clarkson GO Stations for the co-fare program to/from GO.

[Xtrazsteve]

On 6/12/2017 at 11:46 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Oakville Transit uses Clever Devices as well. I would suspect that the same setup is with Oakville except that there's no difference with local or express fares as there aren't any. Just one set of fares. Only difference is when people are coming off the GO bus or train at Oakville, Brone or Clarkson GO Stations for the co-fare program to/from GO.

The co-fare is automatic. The presto card stores the last GO trip ridden and when it's tapped on the MiWay, Oakville or what transit system that has a co-fare discount, it checks for a recent GO trip and if it qualifies, a the discounted fare is charged. There is no need for the operator to do anything nor do you have to tell the operator. The current standalone TTC setup is enough to support a co-fare, any discounts or transfers. It's just when you want to pay for multiple zones on YRT (which is being discontinued), express YRT extra fares or multiple passengers, those actions would need the operator to override the reader's default settings. GO buses will also need the operator to set the location/route for fares to be charged correctly during tap on and tap off.

[Antarctica]

Need to say the cost of the TTC's PRESTO installation budget is going up to $385 million?

[Xtrazsteve]

Apparently tapping on the 46 bus (#1204 former Malvern) in Etobicoke yesterday results in a record location on Nugget Rd (a stop along the 131) in Scarborough. This is the new record of how bad these presto locations are for me. Usually it's just the bus garage.

[YYZ Rampdog]

On 8/12/2017 at 9:11 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

Apparently tapping on the 46 bus (#1204 former Malvern) in Etobicoke yesterday results in a record location on Nugget Rd (a stop along the 131) in Scarborough. This is the new record of how bad these presto locations are for me. Usually it's just the bus garage.

That was very common the first couple years Presto was on Miway. The tap locations have gotten much better now and are pretty accurate as far as my account goes. As with new installations on anything it takes a while to work the kinks out.

[Bob2]

https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.asp?WCE=Show&TAB=3&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=PR424664&src=osr&FED_ONLY=0&ACTION=&rowcount=&lastpage=&MoreResults=&PUBSORT=2&CLOSESORT=0&IS_SME=N&hcode=%2bVn9goLeuBMBnrZ0gXx8ow%3d%3d

[GTAmissions1]

28 minutes ago, Bob2 said:

https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.asp?WCE=Show&TAB=3&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=PR424664&src=osr&FED_ONLY=0&ACTION=&rowcount=&lastpage=&MoreResults=&PUBSORT=2&CLOSESORT=0&IS_SME=N&hcode=%2bVn9goLeuBMBnrZ0gXx8ow%3d%3d

Going through he proposal and one of the major things that stand out is the necessary requirement of barcoded transfers and a scanner for readability.

The open payment system (debit and credit) has already been talked about for years. Not sure what the status is for that knowing the capability does exist. 

A lot of modernization knowing that the needs have changed and hoping the successful bidder can deliver on what is needed. 

[Flalex72]

19 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Going through he proposal and one of the major things that stand out is the necessary requirement of barcoded transfers and a scanner for readability.

The open payment system (debit and credit) has already been talked about for years. Not sure what the status is for that knowing the capability does exist. 

A lot of modernization knowing that the needs have changed and hoping the successful bidder can deliver on what is needed. 

All of OC Transpo's transfers now print with machine readable QR codes. Bus operators still verify them the traditional way, but they can be scanned at the new faregates, which are the same model the TTC has installed. The Barcode route is a good way to go as it allows tremendous flexibility to create one-off ticket media, for sporting events or special events that might include transit access.

[GTAmissions1]

For those interested, Presto has unveiled a new card in the black matte format. 

http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/10/presto-makeover-ttc-toronto/

Currently, they are only available at select Shoppers Drug Mart stores in Toronto. Eventually, all locations that distribute Presto cards (transit agencies and stores) will get them eventually in the new stock batches. 

Final comments:

This literally reminds me of the American Express Centurion card (metal black card), World Elite MasterCard or the Visa Infinite Privilege cards that sport the black matte finish. At the same time, I do collect the Presto cards.

Still have my original, Union Pearson Express card and soon this one. 

[Ed T.]

7 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

For those interested, Presto has unveiled a new card in the black matte format. 

http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/10/presto-makeover-ttc-toronto/

I thought I heard that GO vehicles--buses and trains--were being repainted those nasty two shades of green to show the same corporate colours as the Presto card. So now they'll all be matte black?

[Kelvin3157]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

I thought I heard that GO vehicles--buses and trains--were being repainted those nasty two shades of green to show the same corporate colours as the Presto card. So now they'll all be matte black?

I wonder if they will also re-label all the readers to the new brand..

[Articulated]

11 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I thought I heard that GO vehicles--buses and trains--were being repainted those nasty two shades of green to show the same corporate colours as the Presto card. So now they'll all be matte black?

Not to show the same colours as Presto - to show the corporate colours of Metrolinx, which was amalgamated with GO in 2009. And now since Metrolinx has begun to rebrand itself...

I suspect that with the tender for new Driver Control Units that was linked 5 posts above, this will form the "third generation" of readers that will be part of the Presto/Metrolinx rebrand. Although why not wait until the contract is awarded, in case the current cards are not compatible with new readers...

[Flalex72]

7 hours ago, Articulated said:

Not to show the same colours as Presto - to show the corporate colours of Metrolinx, which was amalgamated with GO in 2009. And now since Metrolinx has begun to rebrand itself...

I suspect that with the tender for new Driver Control Units that was linked 5 posts above, this will form the "third generation" of readers that will be part of the Presto/Metrolinx rebrand. Although why not wait until the contract is awarded, in case the current cards are not compatible with new readers...

The current cards are based on the standard commonly used around the world for transit cards, and the tender states that the new DCUs must support those cards, as almost any product on the market would.

[Transit geek]

Perhaps a coincidence? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/2017/10/03/go-transit-users-to-get-half-price-fares-on-ttc.html

[TheAverageJoe]

36 minutes ago, Transit geek said:

Perhaps a coincidence? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/2017/10/03/go-transit-users-to-get-half-price-fares-on-ttc.html

Election year next year and the Liberals need every vote in the GTA that it can get.

[Kelvin3157]

I got one of the newer cards, and the back looks pretty boring and bland.

[Oc4526]

Found this on the Presto site ( Which is currently offline till Nov 20th) 

A fix is currently being rolled out to address the issue of some PRESTO cards being incorrectly cancelled but it will take time to update the whole system. While many customers' cards are now working, some customers may continue to experience issues. If your card is still affected, please tap and ride as you normally would. If you're a TTC customer who is impacted by this issue, you can visit your nearest GO Transit Station to have the issue corrected, or contact PRESTO for more information.

[dowlingm]

On twitter last night including TTCHelps it was mentioned that only registered cards would be fixed...

[tomsbuspage]

Time-based transfers coming to TTC next year for PRESTO users

Quote

By fall next year, TTC riders using a PRESTO card will be able to hop off along their route and do some errands before continuing on their way – all on a single fare.

[Kelvin3157]

3 hours ago, tomsbuspage said:

Time-based transfers coming to TTC next year for PRESTO users

Finally.

 

But considering that it said only PRESTO users, will the people paying cash/ticket/token still apply to the regular TTC transfer rules?

[Streety McCarface]

7 minutes ago, Kelvin3157 said:

Finally.

 

But considering that it said only PRESTO users, will the people paying cash/ticket/token still apply to the regular TTC transfer rules?

Aren't Tokens/Tickets supposed to be phased out next year?

[Kelvin3157]

34 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

Aren't Tokens/Tickets supposed to be phased out next year?

Most likely, but payment with cash or anything applicable still allows you obtain a paper transfer.