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Streety McCarface

CPTDB Wiki Editor
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About Streety McCarface

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    Streetcar

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  • Location
    Waterloo Region
  • Interests
    Streetcars, Rail transit, Public Transit

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  1. Definitely think it's an improvement, it's just different. Too bad the Eglinton and Finch LRVs aren't going to have a dash of red on them. That to me is the crime in vehicle design.
  2. Does the 506 really have super low ridership on weekends? I always found it to be about the same as other routes in the system with the exception of King. I'd say cars like that would be far more useful on the 507 (501L). The question is whether you can actually store these vehicles efficiently in existing carhouses.
  3. It's not economically feasible keeping a small section of the CLRV fleet when so many parts and specialized crew are required to upkeep it. The solution is to just get more streetcars. The argument for keeping them is that queen will eventually get a King-style pilot project, thereby enticing Kingston Road riders to use the 502/503 services even more. Removing the services and ripping out the tracks before these changes come would be silly, especially since the Danforth line is seeing increased usage over time, and it'll be a few decades before we see the relief line relieve Bloor. Between the two routes, they remove close to 8,000 people from Line 2/1, While it seems insigificant, it's the equivalent of 6 trains full of people no longer transferring at Bloor Yonge station or St. George. You could always expropriate a few properties to make room for a small parking lot and remove parking from the southern section of Victoria Park avenue. Perhaps dedicate a section of the Vic Park station parking lot to residents and give all of them passes that allow them to ride the 502/503 free indefinitely to access their vehicles. There aren't many cars stored down there. You could also run the 502 down Main St. to Main St. Station (Question is where would you put a second streetcar platform in the bus loop), and keep the 503 running to Bingham. These are very low use areas, even for vehicles. You don't need 4 lanes of traffic.
  4. Going by Steve's numbers, totally forgot about tripper buses. My bad.
  5. The 506 requires 28 CLRVs to run today, they'll probably half it and run 14 LFLRVs or worse. The 505 will likely still require some buses for the foreseeable future, or perhaps king/Queen riders will shift back north when the line returns. Only time will tell. Either way, that's another 12-14 LFLRVs required to run that route. It'll be doable, but these lines are going to be insanely overcrowded. The 502/503 are worrying me. Both routes should stay alive, but I don't think it's currently in the TTC's best interest to do so. If one was going to go away, it'd bet money on the 502, but I wouldn't be surprised if both hit the chopping block in 2020 and the 502/503 fade into history. Either way, it's not economical running 50 ton behemoths down Kingston rd, especially when the TTC is trying so hard to make the 22 the dominant route in the are. Is there any bit on news on the future streetcar order?
  6. But they still don't have to tap if they're getting on the 509/510 at Union, the 510 at Spadina, the 511 at Bathurst, the 504/505 at Broadview and Dundas West, the 506 at Main St, and the 512 at St Clair/St Clair west, which account for the majority of transfers. Do they have counters at platforms? I also recall that the new streetcars count passengers through door sensors. Could those be over counting?
  7. Petition to rename the 501L to 507. Also, https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Q1-Ridership-APTA-1.pdf Apparently the streetcar ridership grew 82% to 486,800 PPD over the entire network during the first quarter of 2019. Does anyone know how this happened?
  8. I presume the added buses are for the 206's introduction and other Cambridge changes, or are these just replacements at the Kitchener Garage?
  9. Definitely don't disagree with you with regards to the CLRVs and ALRVs, but we are living in times that are a little different. Sure, the PCCs were plentiful, but they were in operation for like 70 years, and there were many iterations of the car. During their run, I don't believe subway cars or buses had air conditioning either (except as they aged, but even then, AC was still a new concept overall for public transit). The CLRVs were very similar to the layout of the PCCs from a passenger's perspective, and therefore, I think it's safe to say that there wasn't the same resentment for the PCCs as there is now for the CLRVs. Even avid railfans/transit fans, and transit enthusiasts I know that may foam at the mouth to ride an H6 are writing the CLRVs and ALRVs off as garbage. To me, that's just very sad. We also have to consider the fact that streetcar systems were dying out throughout North America during their run. With the PCCs leaving at around the same time the TTC was considering abandoning parts of the network, it makes sense that people were more nostalgic for the cars back then and would want to preserve some pieces of history. With the streetcar network being an integral part of our public transit network, we don't really see that nostalgia these days.
  10. Lol, I'm an engineer, just not an electrical engineer. I too have a love-hate relationship with MATLAB : P But this is exactly why I'm here, you almost never learn things outside your field in a uni classroom dedicated to your field, especially in engineering, so getting some practical knowledge outside your field is very useful. But back to Halton, they generally have 3 cars powered at any given time, of which, 2 are idle, and one is running. Obviously an idle car is going to use significantly less power than a running one, but it's still important to note this. It would make sense that replacing a legacy streetcar with a much heavier and larger ALRV under these operating conditions might require surplus power which the museum may not have available. It's unlikely, but certainly possible. Eventually I'll inquire further but that will have to wait a few months.
  11. While it's true that maximum power output for a CLRV is higher, the fact still remains that an ALRV weighs almost twice as much. Remember, these are museum conditions, I doubt the power output required to run a CLRV or ALRV at Halton would be anywhere near the maximum the motors could handle. After all, they have the interest of preservation on their side. With the better traction motors on the CLRV, it's also worth noting that the acceleration is greater for the CLRV than the ALRV. With all this in mind, almost everything (average power consumed, total power used per day, etc) would increase linearly with mass simply because the vehicle would have much more kinetic energy than a comparable CLRV. The one in question would be peak current draw but thats only assuming the CLRV and the ALRV are accelerating at their max speeds (1.5 m/s^2 and 1.2 m/s^2 respectively). This obviously would not happen at Halton, and both would probably be limited to the same acceleration each. @nfitz raises a good point regarding the Interurban Car running on the railroad, of which, it is about 50 tons (almost 15 tons heavier than an ALRV). But it should be noted that the car has far fewer electrical components than a CLRV/ALRV, and accelerates far slower than any streetcar used by the railway. Let it be known that I am not in any way an electrical engineer, so I am not qualified to make claims on the electrical systems or mechanisms, this is again, my educated guess based on my knowledge. I'm really only relying on speculation because there aren't any hard numbers available for the dimensions of the Halton line, and even if there are, they'd be somewhat inaccurate due to the shape of their line. I'd have to go back and check their archives for power consumption information as well, so I don't have much to work with. In terms of actually saving vehicles and donating to Halton, my general assumption is that people tend to have more of a disdain for the CLRV/ALRV family than previous generations of streetcars, likely fueled by the Ford fiasco, the age of the cars, the lack of AC, the overhaul program failure, the lack of unique characteristics distinguished by the public (compared to the wooden nature of the Peter Witts, or the historical significance of the PCC in Toronto) and the whole bombardier fiasco. If people see something that they believe is worth saving, they'll save it. The lighthouse preservation societies in the US are a great example of this.
  12. There are a few senior members I talked to, and they were the ones that noted that they were receiving cars, and would likely store them outside or in temporary barns until a more permanent structure is built. More of the part time volunteers claimed that they wouldn't receive any cars because of the lack of storage. However, I do not know for certain if the senior members are main contributors to the museum, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two were. What's certain is that if they get an ALRV, they will not be running an ALRV along the current line, and that barn space is at a premium with funds being needed to store future vehicles. Currently, they do not know where they are going to construct a barn, or whether they're going to reconstruct barn 1. What's also pretty certain is that the public will not really go out of their way to "save" any CLRVs by funding barn space like they did in saving one of the Witts. It's relatively flat but you have to remember that this is a museum line, with limited available power to the vehicles, and really bad track/ties. Apparently the PCCs are power hogs compared to the Witts so they generally don't run those because they use too much electricity. While the power systems may provide enough current to supply an ALRV going at a flat grade, they likely do not supply enough to run one going up even a 0.5% incline. Again, just speculation, please take with a grain of salt.
  13. They mentioned that the Bellows was the limiting factor for turns and that because of the weight of the ALRV, it would not be able to handle the grading along the existing HCRR line. This is speculation, please take it with a grain of salt: The loops at Halton are smaller than those used on the current TTC lines, so while the two may have a defined minimum turning radius that's the same, practically, I'm assuming the CLRV can manage tighter curves than it's rating. There's also the fact that a minimum turning radius on paper doesn't mean that an ALRV ever went under that minimum turning radius while in service with the TTC. Because of the smaller loops, the Halton loops might be approaching that minimum turning radius.
  14. Talked to some people at Halton today, there is absolutely no consensus between what cars will be saved, some saying that the museum will get none, while others saying they'll get 4 and the TTC will keep a further 3. Apparently, the big thing that's preventing cars from being stored now is the lack of a new barn at Halton, which they are a decade behind in funding. Assuming they had/will get the space to store streetcars, the goal is to obtain 4 streetcars altogether (3 of which at least will be donated). Of these, 1 will be an ALRV (static, cannot run along the existing tracks or through their loops, and there are no plans to increase their size), 1 will be an original CLRV for operations, 1 will be a UTDC built CLRV for operations, and 1 will be a UTDC built CLRV for parts. Some have stated that the TTC will likely save 3 cars for future charters and parades, these being an ALRV (if they can get the air pressure systems working), an original CLRV, and a UTDC built CLRV. Whether any of this happens or not remains to be seen, but if you want to ensure that Halton has room for some CLRVs/ALRVs, I would encourage you to donate to the museum to ensure that they will have the room to store them in the future. https://hcry.org/donations/#general
  15. God I hope it doesn't, because not building a subway on this corridor and not having the line extend to Sheppard would be a disaster for the city long term.
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