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BYD "E-Bus"

MaT

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Rotidua

Rotidua

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Somewhere in April of this year, one of the demonstration models made its debut in Hawaii, starting with Honolulu county. It was tested on some routes featuring various running environments in a span of a month. After that, it was shipped over to the counties of Maui, Hawaii (the Big Island), and Kaua'i (timeline respective) during the summer, then shipped back to BYD. I believe that a purchase for a K9M model was made for the purpose of shuttle duty for the Honolulu/Daniel K. Inouye Airport, which is appropriate for its range. 

I made a very short video about it. Least to say, the ride didn't leave me with any good impressions (suspicion of quality control, what with it being Made in China). The mention of numerous mechanical and technological flaws recorded by Cali's Long Beach Transit and Albuquerque's Rapid Transit reinforces that suspicion. To add to the range issue, I'll refer to this post. 

 

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M. Parsons

M. Parsons

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15 hours ago, Rotidua said:

I made a very short video about it. Least to say, the ride didn't leave me with any good impressions (suspicion of quality control, what with it being Made in China). The mention of numerous mechanical and technological flaws recorded by Cali's Long Beach Transit and Albuquerque's Rapid Transit reinforces that suspicion. To add to the range issue, I'll refer to this post. 

But... that bus wasn't made in China. That was one of the 2 demo buses built for Edmonton's winter testing and came from the US plant.
Certainly, some components are coming from China, and as I understand it even the frames come from China but then are assembled in the US.

The post you refer to contains hearsay. We don't know who the driver was and what "didn't last long around the island" means. Was it 2 hours? 4 hours? 6 hours? 8 hours? 
This particular bus managed to run for 6-8 hours per shift with ETS which is about what they're advertised for. 

However, and this is a big however, Edmonton's testing was during the winter and the bus is fitted with a diesel fuel heater. In all likelihood the bus was running the air conditioner in Hawaii which uses electricity, so, I would expect a bit lower range vs. Edmonton.

And not that I'm being a BYD apologist. In fact, I'm very skeptical of the BYD product overall vs. Proterra and New Flyer's offerings. 

 

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  • 2 months later...
MAX BRT

MAX BRT

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BYD in the news:

Internal documents reveal issues with IndyGo Red Line buses

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investigators/call-6-internal-documents-reveal-issues-with-indygo-red-line-buses

"In the 14 tests completed between October and January, the range average 205 miles, 70 less than the required amount by the Red Line contract. In the tsting, the furthest the bus traveled was 256 miles and the shortest distance was 178 miles."

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  • 4 weeks later...
MAX BRT

MAX BRT

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IndyGo’s new electric buses can’t go the distance

"IndyGo says the electric buses it intends to use on the Red Line are falling short of expectations in an important way: Drivers have been unable to squeeze more than 256 miles out of a fully charged vehicle, despite the 275-mile charging range promised by manufacturer BYD Ltd.

And on the coldest days, the range falls well below 200 miles, IndyGo test results show.

IndyGo says it’s working with BYD to resolve the problem, which will likely involve adding in-route charging stations and additional buses—at BYD’s expense."

Source: https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buses-cant-go-the-distance

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Buzz2kb

Buzz2kb

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I have a question following my spotting of BYD K9S buses with CARTA of Chattanooga: Why is BYD having such a hard time selling their electric buses outside the West Coast other than isolated orders with Columbia (Missouri), Chattanooga and RTA of Central Maryland?  My personal theories are a) The dominance of Proterra due to its HQ in Greenville, South Carolina, whereas BYD is stronger in the West due to its Lancaster, California HQ and b) Widespread concerns over the quality of its buses.  So which one is more plausible?  Any insight is appreciated!

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M. Parsons

M. Parsons

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5 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

I have a question following my spotting of BYD K9S buses with CARTA of Chattanooga: Why is BYD having such a hard time selling their electric buses outside the West Coast other than isolated orders with Columbia (Missouri), Chattanooga and RTA of Central Maryland?  My personal theories are a) The dominance of Proterra due to its HQ in Greenville, South Carolina, whereas BYD is stronger in the West due to its Lancaster, California HQ and b) Widespread concerns over the quality of its buses.  So which one is more plausible?  Any insight is appreciated!

That's complicated me thinks. 

Certainly to an extent there might be some regional advantage, however, Proterra has not one, but two facilities in California. A battery facility and a bus manufacturing facility. I know I read the capacity of each facility somewhere, and certainly the South Carolina facility is by far higher capacity than the California facility.

There's also the simple fact that Proterra was first to market between them.

And then there's tenders. Without an understanding of all of the electric bus tenders that have been issued to date, it's tough to say if Proterra or BYD ever didn't win a tender because they didn't meet the requirements. The only one I can tell you for sure is ETS. BYD could not meet the specs, and trust me, they tried to get accommodations so that their buses would be acceptable but those deviations were not granted.

And while the build quality of BYD's is certainly up for debate, and their ability to deliver on what they promise, just delivering a bus seems to be a challenge. St. Albert's were late, and while I don't think I commented online, I certainly did privately with the BYD timelines for Toronto. Had a good laugh at that one. I wouldn't be surprised if Proterra had a bus in Toronto before BYD. And Proterra was supposed to be be delivered last. 

 

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MAX BRT

MAX BRT

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18 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

I have a question following my spotting of BYD K9S buses with CARTA of Chattanooga: Why is BYD having such a hard time selling their electric buses outside the West Coast other than isolated orders with Columbia (Missouri), Chattanooga and RTA of Central Maryland?  My personal theories are a) The dominance of Proterra due to its HQ in Greenville, South Carolina, whereas BYD is stronger in the West due to its Lancaster, California HQ and b) Widespread concerns over the quality of its buses.  So which one is more plausible?  Any insight is appreciated!

As someone who follows news of electric buses closely, (I'm a big fan) I can't help but have concern over the quality of the BYD product. Too many stories of over-promising and under-delivering.

As for your point a)

Proterra moved its headquarters to California in 2015 (according to the timeline on Proterra's website), but I'm sure the proximity of their South Carolina factory is a selling point as they market their buses in the Southeastern US. So they have a strong presence in Cali, but also in the Southeast.

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Buzz2kb

Buzz2kb

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16 minutes ago, MAX BRT said:

As someone who follows news of electric buses closely, (I'm a big fan) I can't help but have concern over the quality of the BYD product. Too many stories of over-promising and under-delivering.

As for your point a)

Proterra moved its headquarters to California in 2015 (according to the timeline on Proterra's website), but I'm sure the proximity of their South Carolina factory is a selling point as they market their buses in the Southeastern US. So they have a strong presence in Cali, but also in the Southeast.

So who do you think is making the best electric buses so far?

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MAX BRT

MAX BRT

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3 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

So who do you think is making the best electric buses so far?

I don't have any direct experience, so take what I say with that in mind. But I read everything I can find and I can say that both Proterra and New Flyer make electric buses that have avoided reports of  promises broken.

Proterra is especially interesting, since their bus is built from the ground up to be electric (unlike the New Flyer Xcelsior platform) and uses a composite bus body in order to be lighter and perhaps even more durable. I also like that Proterra packages the traction batteries below the floor of the bus, delivering a low center of gravity for vehicle stability. They also have the longest history and the most miles racked up here in North America.

I believe that NY MTA, Toronto TTC and others will soon be testing buses from all three of these manufacturers, so I'll be watching for the results of those tests over time.

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7575

7575

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22 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

I believe that NY MTA, Toronto TTC and others will soon be testing buses from all three of these manufacturers, so I'll be watching for the results of those tests over time

Yes. TTC has one of the New Flyers delivered. The Proterra and BYD (Build Your Disasters) are supposed to be delivered in Q3 2019.

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Centralsmt

Centralsmt

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There are many BYD buses operating in the UK with no problems whatsoever, including on intensive routes in London, maybe it is certain North American operators inability to adapt to new technology that is the problem. There is also an element of xenophobia where Chinese manufacturers are concerned too.

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MVTArider

MVTArider

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On 5/5/2019 at 3:15 PM, Centralsmt said:

There are many BYD buses operating in the UK with no problems whatsoever, including on intensive routes in London, maybe it is certain North American operators inability to adapt to new technology that is the problem. There is also an element of xenophobia where Chinese manufacturers are concerned too.

To be fair though a chunk of the UK ones are only BYD propulsion/chassis with the bus body coming from ADL. IIRC some of the issues with BYD in NA were due to poor build quality of the bus. For range issues I suppose another factor could be lower average speeds in UK cities vs. NA cities. I.e. range is probably better plugging along at 20mph in London than at 45mph on a main access street in the US.

Nonetheless though I agreed the technology seems to be a success over there, so I also have to wonder why some agencies seem to struggle with their electric buses (BYD or other).

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WMATAC40LF

WMATAC40LF

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Thought I'd share this link. It was only a matter of time until the same cybersecurity and trade complaints being hurtled at CRRC by various US politicians also hit BYD. However, BYD has been spared (at least for the time being) by good old fashion American interest group politics. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy managed to get "bus manufacturers" removed from a bill that would have blocked federal funding for transit vehicles built by Chinese companies. McCarthy's intervention is significant because BYD's bus factory is located in his California district. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/despite-national-security-concerns-gop-leader-mccarthy-blocked-bipartisan-bid-to-limit-chinas-role-in-us-transit/2019/05/21/24bb0f72-7813-11e9-b7ae-390de4259661_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.44fee1c76faf

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martin607

martin607

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 3:19 PM, Buzz2kb said:

So who do you think is making the best electric buses so far?

If you mean the best battery-electric buses, I would suggest that New Flyer seems the most reliable. For example in the tests in New York they seem to have performed well, while the Proterra trial buses were withdrawn. Proterra seems to do well in some places e.g. Seattle but not so impressive in other places e.g. in Philadelphia it took them six months to get their first few buses into service. 

Now if you mean electric buses of all categories, I would nominate the Swiss Trolley Plus, a battery -trolleybus built by Hess with a cutting-edge electric traction package from ABB.

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Michael Marriott

Michael Marriott

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22 hours ago, translink fan said:

West Coast Sightseeing has received 2 loaner 35 foot coaches before their 2 45 footers arrive anytime. Heard one may have broken down on trials today. Will see how they turn out on doing their tours. 

Saw one drive by Nanaimo/Broadway this morning.

632706468_May2019-Ending010.thumb.JPG.0a5d1d79e81b3f3e596d58b4fd5fc913.JPG

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MAX BRT

MAX BRT

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Marin Transit says their 2 electric buses (I believe they are BYD buses) are performing well:

(quote) In an update to the Marin Transit Board of Directors in July, Whelan said the electric buses were performing better than expected and were able to travel between 80 to 100 miles using less than half of the battery power.(unquote)

Source: https://www.marinij.com/2019/08/26/golden-gate-transit-rolls-out-68m-hybrid-bus-fleet/

About Marin Transit's electric buses:

https://marintransit.org/projects/two-battery-electric-buses

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