General Subway/RT Discussion

[Turtle]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:54 PM, Shaun said:

This area has been a problem since before the T1's arrived. The H5's used to scrape the pole when travelling slowly.

Scrape the pole? Huh, wtf are you talking about?

 

It is pretty common through there that the workzone flags installed on the poles would contact the train, but it wasn't anything to do with how fast the train was going through there.

 

IF a train actually contacted a pole (lighting or signalling) in that area it would be a big issue. That you are complaining a train contacted a flag mounted in a holder on a pole is basically a non issue. It has been a thing for the past (forever) that a train makes contact with a workzone flag in that area.

[nfitz]

I was in the subway yesterday.

I was wondering about these hanging pieces of something under the third rail. At first glance, it looks like metal, but I'd think it must be some kind of insulator. But why does it all seem to appear to be falling out?

    

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, nfitz said:

I was in the subway yesterday.

I was wondering about these hanging pieces of something under the third rail. At first glance, it looks like metal, but I'd think it must be some kind of insulator. But why does it all seem to appear to be falling out?

    

Can't really answer this because I don't know exactly what the purpose of those things are, but I would assume they are a non conductive material. i.e. the main reason why racoons don't get zapped when crossing near Davisville under the third rails.

 

As far as the last question about why it looks like everything is falling apart. That's just a ttc thing.

[tensorflow]

On 2/7/2024 at 7:35 PM, nfitz said:

I was in the subway yesterday.

I was wondering about these hanging pieces of something under the third rail. At first glance, it looks like metal, but I'd think it must be some kind of insulator. But why does it all seem to appear to be falling out?

    

IIRC TTC does top conduct, so I think this must be insulator.

Insulator can made of ceramics, which when covered in dust & looked far away can indeed look like metal

[Bus_Medic]

its fibreglass.

[Turtle]

3 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

its fibreglass.

I still don't get how a fat racoon can crawl under the third rail on a rainy day and not get zapped. Somebody mansplained it to me that their fur isn't conductive, but I don't believe it.

[Mike]

Any thoughts on what has been causing the noticeable deterioration of run times on Line 1 last 3-4 weeks?  It used to be 35 minutes travel time between King and Finch northbound in pm rush (5:30-6:30pm), now if I manage to make it north in 45 minutes I consider myself lucky.

[Articulated]

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

Any thoughts on what has been causing the noticeable deterioration of run times on Line 1 last 3-4 weeks?  It used to be 35 minutes travel time between King and Finch northbound in pm rush (5:30-6:30pm), now if I manage to make it north in 45 minutes I consider myself lucky.

There are a massive number of slow zones on Line 1. It's gotten to the point where the TTC has started listing them on their website; currently there are 14 separate orders on the line.

Even on the non-affected portion of the line, trains are also operating slower than normal. Not sure if it's simply because trains are catching up to each other with all the slow orders, if the normal operating speed has been reduced, or another "safety" rule such as slower entry into stations.

[Turtle]

26 minutes ago, Articulated said:

Even on the non-affected portion of the line, trains are also operating slower than normal. 

So, you mean to tell me that it wasn't the fixed block signal system that was causing service issues on line 1? Omfg, I'm so happy that it wasn't the human operators that were screwing things up for the past few decades, the computers can't do much better.

 

Just to let you know, if you haven't realized this already...a bunch of useless turds in suits just walked away with millions of taxpayers money for promising something that was never delivered (better, more reliable service). I wish I was one of those useless turds with connections, I would have nothing to worry about financially right now.

[IRT_BMT_IND]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Any thoughts on what has been causing the noticeable deterioration of run times on Line 1 last 3-4 weeks?  It used to be 35 minutes travel time between King and Finch northbound in pm rush (5:30-6:30pm), now if I manage to make it north in 45 minutes I consider myself lucky.

It seems that almost the whole open cut section on line 1 is under a slow order. The open cut sections were always problematic for slow orders, but its become intolerably bad recently. I wonder if these sections are going to need a total rebuild which would require a multiple month closure (I know the TTC was making public statements about this in the Andy Byford era).

[Mike]

26 minutes ago, IRT_BMT_IND said:

It seems that almost the whole open cut section on line 1 is under a slow order. The open cut sections were always problematic for slow orders, but its become intolerably bad recently. I wonder if these sections are going to need a total rebuild which would require a multiple month closure (I know the TTC was making public statements about this in the Andy Byford era).

I wish they would just do that - shut it down fully for a rebuild so that we can go back to "normal" service times.  Southbound from Finch to King usually takes about 28min, its the northbound that needs some serious work.  Luckily the entire line on Yonge is essentially duplicated on the University/Spadina side so if they run more frequent service there during shutdown we should be ok.

How can they have a slow order on the line between Hwy 407 and Vaughan Centre - the extension isn't even 10 years old.  Was the quality of the build so bad that it already needs major repairs?

Another question:  Are all slow orders on different parts of line mandate the same speed?  What is that speed relative to normal operating speed?

 

[buswizzard]

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

I still don't get how a fat racoon can crawl under the third rail on a rainy day and not get zapped. Somebody mansplained it to me that their fur isn't conductive, but I don't believe it.

What's the difference between mansplained and explain?

[Turtle]

3 hours ago, buswizzard said:

What's the difference between mansplained and explain?

If I were to tell you, it would be mansplaining

[raptorjays]

4 hours ago, IRT_BMT_IND said:

It seems that almost the whole open cut section on line 1 is under a slow order. The open cut sections were always problematic for slow orders, but its become intolerably bad recently. I wonder if these sections are going to need a total rebuild which would require a multiple month closure (I know the TTC was making public statements about this in the Andy Byford era).

Southbound Yonge line doesn't seem to be that bad, but the Northbound is absolutely terrible..

I had to go up to Sheppard-Yonge today and it typically takes 15-20 minutes from Bloor/Yonge, and it took me little over 30 minute. which is almost the double. 

The train was crawling from Bloor-Yonge to Davisville.. 

[Shaun]

I thought they were doing track work at Davisville to fix the problem with the ballast? 

There is a slow order at the Sheppard cross over as well. 

[MorningsideExpress]

Question of the day:

 

Is there any feasibility in merging Line 4 into a branch of line 1 as a means of eliminating the transfer at Sheppard-Yonge? With or without extending the trains to 6-car sets, I've often wondered about if line 4 would also generate more ridership if it were simply one train in to and out of Downtown. I'd imagine there would be some service changes to the existing line 1, but I'm curious to see what the thoughts are on this. 

4 minutes ago, MorningsideExpress said:

 

Or perhaps maintaining line 4 and adding a branch. 

[Articulated]

33 minutes ago, MorningsideExpress said:

Question of the day:

 

Is there any feasibility in merging Line 4 into a branch of line 1 as a means of eliminating the transfer at Sheppard-Yonge? With or without extending the trains to 6-car sets, I've often wondered about if line 4 would also generate more ridership if it were simply one train in to and out of Downtown. I'd imagine there would be some service changes to the existing line 1, but I'm curious to see what the thoughts are on this. 

Or perhaps maintaining line 4 and adding a branch. 

Because of the physical arrangement of the wye at Sheppard-Yonge, through-routing would not be very practical. The only links between Lines 1 and 4 are two connecting tracks in the southeast and southwest quadrants of the station, which link in between the crossovers on both lines. Westbound trains would need to cross over to the south side platform, pull through into the tunnel west of the station, change ends inside the tunnel, and pull onto the wye track to head south on Line 1. I can't imagine this move being faster than the current arrangement. Northbound trains would take the wye track directly to the eastbound Line 4 track, requiring trains to skip Sheppard-Yonge entirely.

Integrating the less frequent Line 4 service in between the Line 1 trains would also be difficult to manage. It would lead to gaps north of Sheppard-Yonge, or require trains to be held to properly space the line. We already know how terrible TTC is at managing a single line, try having them integrate branches together seamlessly. Also, with an integrated service, now delays on any portion of Line 1 will cause issues on Line 4, reducing its reliability for any local trips.

Despite Line 4 being a retrofit, Sheppard-Yonge Station is designed very well to facilitate transfers between Lines 1 and 4. I don't think requiring a transfer between the two lines is that big of a hindrance that through-routing would cause enough of an improvement in ridership to offset all of the drawbacks and operational issues that interlining would bring.

EDIT: To add on, you can see the arrangement of the wye tracks in this image from Transit Toronto. The switches for the wye tracks are in between the switches for the crossovers on both lines; therefore, you can't simply take the wye track and switch to an opposite track without a reversing move.

Edited February 10 by Articulated

[Ed T.]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:38 AM, Articulated said:

There are a massive number of slow zones on Line 1. It's gotten to the point where the TTC has started listing them on their website; currently there are 14 separate orders on the line.

Even on the non-affected portion of the line, trains are also operating slower than normal. Not sure if it's simply because trains are catching up to each other with all the slow orders, if the normal operating speed has been reduced, or another "safety" rule such as slower entry into stations.

I have to go to Sheppard and Yonge tomorrow, and I was planning to stop at College and Yonge to do some other business.

If I took the subway from College to Sheppard, I'd experience slow zones from College to Wellesley, Summerhill to St. Clair, St. Clair to Davisville, Lawrence to York Mills, and York Mills to Sheppard. That's going by what's on the list of slow zones right now.

I think I ought to take my chances with the 401 instead, and worry about the College and Yonge business some other day.

[ttc rider]

The Yonge Line has been particularly slow this week, including this weekend.

Very crowded trains both ways during the daytime yesterday (on a Saturday), particularly south of Bloor. 

Part of the problem are the slow zones, and the closure of the University Line this weekend made things worse. 

They had 15 trains in service this weekend during the daytime on the Yonge side of the line from Finch to St Andrew, which one would expect to be enough, but the extended run times due to the slow zones caused the line to be quite crowded.

[raptorjays]

4 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I have to go to Sheppard and Yonge tomorrow, and I was planning to stop at College and Yonge to do some other business.

If I took the subway from College to Sheppard, I'd experience slow zones from College to Wellesley, Summerhill to St. Clair, St. Clair to Davisville, Lawrence to York Mills, and York Mills to Sheppard. That's going by what's on the list of slow zones right now.

I think I ought to take my chances with the 401 instead, and worry about the College and Yonge business some other day.

I was going to Sheppard Yonge from Bloor/Yonge, and it took me little over 30 minute.. and typically it takes around 17-18 minute.. and it took me close to 20 minute to get to Eglinton..

I don't understand why the TTC is hiding that disruption to the riders? This is absolutely ridiculous that riders are blindsided about those slow zones like why is it happening and when will it end. 

[Shaun]

14 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

I was going to Sheppard Yonge from Bloor/Yonge, and it took me little over 30 minute.. and typically it takes around 17-18 minute.. and it took me close to 20 minute to get to Eglinton..

I don't understand why the TTC is hiding that disruption to the riders? This is absolutely ridiculous that riders are blindsided about those slow zones like why is it happening and when will it end. 

I think the bigger issue is more about the fact that they don't do enough preventative maintenance to prevent this cascade of events to happen at the same time. 

All of those closures for maintenance didn't resolve anything?

[81-717]

5 hours ago, Ed T. said:

slow zones from College to Wellesley, Summerhill to St. Clair, St. Clair to Davisville, Lawrence to York Mills, and York Mills to Sheppard

fixed: College to Wellesley, Summerhill to Davisville, and Lawrence to Sheppard

[Articulated]

2 hours ago, 81-717 said:

fixed: College to Wellesley, Summerhill to Davisville, and Lawrence to Sheppard

That's not "fixed"; the original post was correct. There are separate slow orders over those sections, and it's not necessarily a continuous slow order between all of those stations. 

 

[81-717]

7 hours ago, Articulated said:

That's not "fixed"; the original post was correct. There are separate slow orders over those sections, and it's not necessarily a continuous slow order between all of those stations. 

 

Unless those slow orders affect only a fraction of the distance between 2 neighbouring stations (and even then), they'd surely significantly slow down the whole trip between those 2 stations. Passengers wouldn't care if there's a separate slow order between every pair of stations, they'd only care that the entire line is slow the whole way and their trip took twice as long as normal, so from a passenger perspective it would, in effect, be a single continuous slow order.

[2044]

Someone made a visual of all the slow orders.