Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[smallspy]

14 hours ago, Orion V said:

Anyone old enough to remember or know where pictures are of Kennedy Stn from 1980 to 1984 prior to RT opening? Transit Toronto don't have pics of this station in this period it seems.

Did they always had that top level built or was that level added on once they started the RT? How did it looked after it opened but prior to adding the RT infrastructure?

While I wasn't old enough to remember what the station looked like before the SRT opened, there are some images of the station during that time frame at Station Fixation: https://www.stationfixation.com/2015/01/kennedy.html

 

Dan

[WoodbineSecondExit]

Speaking of operators playing games, a big FU to the Malvern op on the 503 last Sunday. You thought you were being sly on your last trip for following your partner out from the loop and leaving him to get soaked at King station while you drove around him and put your pedal to the floor on your race to the other end of the line and back to Malvern? I'd report you if I wasn't sure it would fall on the deaf ears of scum like Leary.

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Speaking of operators playing games, a big FU to the Malvern op on the 503 last Sunday. You thought you were being sly on your last trip for following your partner out from the loop and leaving him to get soaked at King station while you drove around him and put your pedal to the floor on your race to the other end of the line and back to Malvern? I'd report you if I wasn't sure it would fall on the deaf ears of scum like Leary.

Since when was there a shortage of passengers east of Yonge, on King? How wide was the previous gap?

[Elijah bey]

Are 8650-8659 coming back to the ttc or no and also what do the buses look like if they are staying in drt.

[TransitFan88]

26 minutes ago, Elijah bey said:

Are 8650-8659 coming back to the ttc or no and also what do the buses look like if they are staying in drt.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/apta_2050/53159841449/in/photolist-2oZy5Nv-2oZynL3-2oZzvpy-2oYRJeD-2oYfDRp-2oYfDRu-2oYfDRj-2oYiDoP-2oXABFf-2oXt6k8-2oZvQtg-2oXcNTR-2oXbpEe-2oXcNys-2oWK9YD-2oWK7pZ-2oWHTjY-2oWBeFo-2oWBDAW-2oWTqdg-2oXBNrq-2oVM4yr-2oVPzTT-2oVLRSA-2oVLT55-2oVN6Lo-2oVP9Xn-2oVPsro-2oVPwmC-2oVMYkb-2oVHGfS-2oVLKRs-2oVLL4M-2oVPhkS-2oVLWUp-2oVLXb6-2oVMZuF-2oVP23K-2oVPstn-2oVPtxb-2oVMVx2-2oVMZxS-2oVPwmY-2oWC6AY-2oVLXeC-2oVLXjs-2oVMZDy-2oVMZLh-2oVP3e2-2oVP3qz

[Doggosareamazing]

29 minutes ago, Elijah bey said:

Are 8650-8659 coming back to the ttc or no and also what do the buses look like if they are staying in drt.

Afaik they are only leased so I’d imagine yes. 

[Byfold]

13 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Speaking of operators playing games, a big FU to the Malvern op on the 503 last Sunday. You thought you were being sly on your last trip for following your partner out from the loop and leaving him to get soaked at King station while you drove around him and put your pedal to the floor on your race to the other end of the line and back to Malvern? I'd report you if I wasn't sure it would fall on the deaf ears of scum like Leary.

And do you think the operator is on this forum to read it?   Send in a official complaint or quit complaining. 

[WoodbineSecondExit]

12 hours ago, nfitz said:

Since when was there a shortage of passengers east of Yonge, on King? How wide was the previous gap?

King station is the busiest stop east of Yonge. If it's Sunday evening and a 504 has been through then volumes will be light if you bypass the busiest stop. More true now that the Pape shuttle covers the eastern dog leg of the street. I know you like playing devil's advocate but let's shut that down. The previous gap was around 12-13 minutes which is within the TTC's on time parameters. An op who was laying over on the street for an extended period of time and about to do his last trip before heading back to the garage just happened to follow another guy out from the loop and let him take the busiest stop before taking off? Are you looking to buy a bridge too?

I've seen such a huge variance in operator quality on this route in the last 3 months even compared to previous periods when this route was running on bus. I can't recall anything like it. You have those who do things by the book of course but there are too many who have a lead foot driving above the 40 kph speed limits, the ones who drive fast and rough when elderly customers are trying to maintain their balance and avoid breaking a hip, the ones in la-la-land who miss multiple stop requests (sometimes on the same trip), and the ones who don't bother pulling up to curb and just stay in the track lane even when grey haired ladies are waiting to board. I'm not even talking about areas where idiots parked too close to the stop and not leaving enough room to safely pull in. Like just straight up driving and staying on the track at all times even outside of the pilot area.

 

1 hour ago, Byfold said:

And do you think the operator is on this forum to read it?   Send in a official complaint or quit complaining. 

Relax Mr. or Mrs. forum police. In a thread where people have been talking about employees playing games I'm just venting about an employee who was playing games. I've never seen you around when people have been complaining about Rick Leary. Shouldn't you be demanding that we file complaints with the TTC board and our councillors instead of complaining about Rick Leary here?

I've sent in complaints before but who knows if they're even looked at because on a few occasions I've requested the contact option and nobody has ever gotten back to me. But since you think I'm using this as a substitute for official complaints because I believe people back at the division are reading this then could you folks kindly go track down the guy who was driving 1355 on August 28 and lock him up in the Malvern dungeon for 30 days please?

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

King station is the busiest stop east of Yonge. If it's Sunday evening and a 504 has been through then volumes will be light if you bypass the busiest stop. More true now that the Pape shuttle covers the eastern dog leg of the street. I know you like playing devil's advocate but let's shut that down. The previous gap was around 12-13 minutes which is within the TTC's on time parameters. An op who was laying over on the street for an extended period of time and about to do his last trip before heading back to the garage just happened to follow another guy out from the loop and let him take the busiest stop before taking off?

Hey, I've seen it too - there's some crap operators out there - and I really get the impression that those who know this best - the other operators - are failing in their duty in reporting the bad operators.

On the other hand, skip stopping is the one advantage buses have in filling stops. The bus that overtook will then pick up future passengers, making the (now) second bus faster, and leading to a shorter gap.

Hard to say really without looking a the performance data on the day/time in question. Perhaps the bus that skipped the stop was already running late? Perhaps Transit Control were too busy having coffee.

I'm happy to pull the data out of Transsee if you give me the times.

But as I pointed out to TTCHelps the other day, 504 service on Roncesvalles is a failure when there's only a pair of streetcars running together, once an hour.

[QueenswayOp]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Hey, I've seen it too - there's some crap operators out there - and I really get the impression that those who know this best - the other operators - are failing in their duty in reporting the bad operators.
 

More like not wanting to be seen as a rat and a snitch. As operators, we try to address the game playing amongst ourselves. But reporting one another to management is the biggest taboo and a line that we don't want to cross (At least most of us anyway).

[nfitz]

5 hours ago, QueenswayOp said:

More like not wanting to be seen as a rat and a snitch. As operators, we try to address the game playing amongst ourselves. But reporting one another to management is the biggest taboo and a line that we don't want to cross.

If passengers can report anonymously, so can operators.

[81-717]

On 8/6/2023 at 2:24 PM, ilovettc said:

Source?

On 8/6/2023 at 2:51 PM, menath said:

Source?

On 8/8/2023 at 10:04 PM, MRD10 said:

No.

Be patient and wait if you need a "source"

 

[Someguy3071]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:27 PM, QueenswayOp said:

More like not wanting to be seen as a rat and a snitch. As operators, we try to address the game playing amongst ourselves. But reporting one another to management is the biggest taboo and a line that we don't want to cross (At least most of us anyway).

How exactly are you addressing game playing between yourselves? Im curious because one of the biggest gameplayers I've seen moved to Queensway earlier this year. 

[QueenswayOp]

2 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

How exactly are you addressing game playing between yourselves? Im curious because one of the biggest gameplayers I've seen moved to Queensway earlier this year. 

If another op does something that results in me getting screwed and slammed on a route, at the next available opportunity,  I will personally let him know that his actions had a negative impact on me, that he can't do that, and that we need to work as a team so that both our runs flow as smoothly as they possibly can. Whether he listens to me or not, that is his decision. 

 

On 9/4/2023 at 8:33 PM, nfitz said:

If passengers can report anonymously, so can operators.

With passengers it is different, as it is expected for them to file complaints about anything,  even when they are lying through their teeth. In other words, the us vs them mentality. Plus, through my time at the TTC, I have seen that reporting anything will just fall on deaf ears most of the time, so I don't even bother.

 

One other thing to point out, the game playing by the TTC ops that is seen out there, it is a symptom of a much larger issue, the cancerous TTC culture that has become so embedded in the workplace, that the rot from it has spread all across the board and is now impossible to get rid of without gutting and demolishing everything and starting all over again. From the upper and middle management, the union, supervisors,  all the way down to the operators. Those operators who play games, you can safely say that they are truly a product of their environment. 

 

As the Russian saying goes, the fish rots from the head. When the top is corrupt,  everything else from it rots downward. The TTC is a prime example of it.

[Someguy3071]

1 hour ago, QueenswayOp said:

If another op does something that results in me getting screwed and slammed on a route, at the next available opportunity,  I will personally let him know that his actions had a negative impact on me, that he can't do that, and that we need to work as a team so that both our runs flow as smoothly as they possibly can. Whether he listens to me or not, that is his decision. 

I would be careful doing that if I were you. Even if you talk to that operator in a nice and calm way they can and some do call transit control and say they they've been confronted by you and now you're the bad guy and have to deal with management. I've seen it happen over very minor comments. These ops play games any way they can. Some will even book off saying you've caused they mental anguish. 

1 hour ago, QueenswayOp said:

If another op does something that results in me getting screwed and slammed on a route, at the next available opportunity,  I will personally let him know that his actions had a negative impact on me, that he can't do that, and that we need to work as a team so that both our runs flow as smoothly as they possibly can. Whether he listens to me or not, that is his decision. 

I would be careful doing that if I were you. Even if you talk to that operator in a nice and calm way they can and some do call transit control and say they they've been confronted by you and now you're the bad guy and have to deal with management. I've seen it happen over very minor comments. These ops play games any way they can. Some will even book off saying you've caused they mental anguish. 

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, QueenswayOp said:

One other thing to point out, the game playing by the TTC ops that is seen out there, it is a symptom of a much larger issue, the cancerous TTC culture that has become so embedded in the workplace, that the rot from it has spread all across the board and is now impossible to get rid of without gutting and demolishing everything and starting all over again. From the upper and middle management, the union, supervisors,  all the way down to the operators. Those operators who play games, you can safely say that they are truly a product of their environment. 

 

As the Russian saying goes, the fish rots from the head. When the top is corrupt,  everything else from it rots downward. The TTC is a prime example of it.

Ouch. And although I've advocated against it, what you describe makes a good case for Metrolinx taking over local transit and/or contracting out TTC operations to private companies.

[2044]

19 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Ouch. And although I've advocated against it, what you describe makes a good case for Metrolinx taking over local transit and/or contracting out TTC operations to private companies.

Does it though? I’ve heard my share of horror stories regarding YRT and their contractors as well as Metrolinx and Alstom.

[QueenswayOp]

47 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Ouch. And although I've advocated against it, what you describe makes a good case for Metrolinx taking over local transit and/or contracting out TTC operations to private companies.

I would not mind Metrolinx taking over the TTC. Although they have their own issues as well, their bus operations do not have the game playing issues that the TTC has, in addition to having a much better culture where the bus drivers are generally very happy to be there. 

 

As far as contracting out to private companies,  that is a nasty spider cobweb of its own.    *cough YRT cough*  .  Miway has everything in-house, and the workplace culture there still appears a lot better than what the TTC has going on. 

[nfitz]

33 minutes ago, 2044 said:

Does it though? I’ve heard my share of horror stories regarding YRT and their contractors as well as Metrolinx and Alstom.

I've never seen anything close to the schedule adherance issues when using Metrolinx, than I have with TTC. Yeah, stuff get's late some times - but you don't see the bunching. Nor vehicles running early!

Looking at the last 3 hours of rush-hour on the YRT 24 Woodbine/Victoria Park route data in Transsee to the TTC 24 Victoria Park route, it's easy to see that YRT is holding their schedule far better than TTC. Gosh a 30-minute gap on TTC 24 at Steeles today!

 

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=ttc&r=24&date=2023-09-06&starttime=14%3A00&endtime=17%3A00&ok=OK

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=yrt&r=24&date=2023-09-06&starttime=14%3A00&endtime=17%3A00&ok=OK

[QueenswayOp]

30 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I've never seen anything close to the schedule adherance issues when using Metrolinx, than I have with TTC. Yeah, stuff get's late some times - but you don't see the bunching. Nor vehicles running early!

Looking at the last 3 hours of rush-hour on the YRT 24 Woodbine/Victoria Park route data in Transsee to the TTC 24 Victoria Park route, it's easy to see that YRT is holding their schedule far better than TTC. Gosh a 30-minute gap on TTC 24 at Steeles today!

 

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=ttc&r=24&date=2023-09-06&starttime=14%3A00&endtime=17%3A00&ok=OK

 

The YRT 24 does not see the same level of crowding and crush loads like the TTC 24 does though. The only time YRT's 24 is standing room only is on peak hour trips that service the office/business parks close to the Hwy. 7/404 area. Other than that, it is smooth sailing and not much people get on. The TTC 24 though, the amount of people an op would collect in one trip alone, a YRT op MAY collect in a week.  

[Bus_Medic]

4 hours ago, QueenswayOp said:

I would not mind Metrolinx taking over the TTC. Although they have their own issues as well, their bus operations do not have the game playing issues that the TTC has, in addition to having a much better culture where the bus drivers are generally very happy to be there. 

https://youtu.be/4EoAHdwGBvU?feature=shared

[nfitz]

4 hours ago, QueenswayOp said:

The YRT 24 does not see the same level of crowding and crush loads like the TTC 24 does though. The only time YRT's 24 is standing room only is on peak hour trips that service the office/business parks close to the Hwy. 7/404 area. Other than that, it is smooth sailing and not much people get on. The TTC 24 though, the amount of people an op would collect in one trip alone, a YRT op MAY collect in a week.  

Tell me which two routes to compare then.

[yrt1000]

14 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Tell me which two routes to compare then.

Maybe like the 35 Jane and 20 Jane? But the frequency on the 20 Jane is like 15+ minutes for the most part- nowhere near the equivalent of the TTCs but most trips are quite busy when I ride it. 
 

From riding YRT for the past 13 years, operators don’t play the same “games” that some TTC operators do as referenced above. I’m not sure if it’s because of the culture there, but moreso because the frequencies are nowhere near the TTCs, so a driver won’t be able to wait to travel in a “pack”. It’s also probably partly because the YRT schedules are quite padded with lots of layover time, so drivers do often get a 5+ minute break at the end of a trip.
 

A lot of the times when a YRT bus is late, it’s honestly because of a skill gap. Don’t really know a better term to use than that, but it’s not really them doing it on purpose. Like drivers who drive slowly, accelerate slowly, turn painstakingly slow, slow to merge etc. causing them to fall behind in the schedules and not being as skilled drivers. I’m sure people here have encountered drivers like that. But with that being said you very rarely will see bunching on YRT routes, outside of maybe Viva Blue in rush hours because that’s the only route where it’s really possible. Elsewhere, a bus could be 10 minutes late but the one after it might still be 45 minutes behind it.

I guess my point of this is, it’s not the private contractor’s making YRT a great transit system that’s better than the TTC. I think in a way, you kinda get what you pay for. Less skilled drivers because they’re paid far less than a TTC driver would be. I also think you’ll find bad apples anywhere you go. The vast majority of people at my company, who I think is a good employer and compensate the average person well for the job they do (not transit related in any way) try to find ways to do as little work as possible, complain constantly etc. Kinda the equivalent to the TTC operator taking an extra 7 minute break at the end of the route

[nfitz]

38 minutes ago, yrt1000 said:

Maybe like the 35 Jane and 20 Jane? But the frequency on the 20 Jane is like 15+ minutes for the most part- nowhere near the equivalent of the TTCs but most trips are quite busy when I ride it. 

I'm not sure 35 Jane is a great example. Perhaps a busy YRT route versus a quieter TTC one.

Say the TTC 160 Bathurst North (an afternoon frequency of about 25 minutes which runs up into York Region, near the 407) versus the YRT 88 Bathurst (which runs to Finch Station - a frequency of 20 minutes, becoming 15 at peak).

Honest, I didn't look at the graph until after I chose the routes. 

Incredible, the TTC 160 is bunching - leaving a 1-hour gap!

Meanwhile you can see rush-hour problems with YRT 88 but far smoother.

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=ttc&r=160&date=2023-09-06&starttime=15%3A00&endtime=18%3A00&ok=OK

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=yrt&r=88&date=2023-09-06&starttime=15%3A00&endtime=18%3A00&ok=OK

Looking at other days, sometimes 180 works ... but there seems to be a much better attempt to control YRT 88 bunching, as if they arrive at the terminal bunched, they don't leave bunched.

 

(BTW, YRT 20 does look better than TTC 35 - today at least. TTC 35 was truely atriocious with a 35-minute gap leaving Jane after 5 pm, on a route scheduled for every 6 minutes!)

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=ttc&r=35&date=2023-09-06&starttime=15%3A00&endtime=18%3A00&ok=OK

https://www.transsee.ca/operatechart?a=yrt&r=20&date=2023-09-06&starttime=15%3A00&endtime=18%3A00&ok=OK

[T3G]

16 hours ago, nfitz said:

Ouch. And although I've advocated against it, what you describe makes a good case for Metrolinx taking over local transit and/or contracting out TTC operations to private companies.

I've spent my entire adult life working in retail. It's not a 1:1 comparison with transit, but being privatized is no guarantee that the job will be done efficiently or that the employees will at all care. Despite what neoliberal shills will claim every time there's a story about the TTC union in the news!