TTC New Flyer Hybrid Electric Buses

[CJ.]

33 minutes ago, 7749 said:

*This is by no means a reliable post, take with a grain of salt*

A source (employee I know) has told me they've heard that the 9400 series should be going to Arrow Road division

AGAIN TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT

They kept saying arrow got a new bus. It must be 9400

[Genius101]

23 hours ago, wheelindealin said:

9400 on the 77... it means queensway IS getting them xD

One can only dream man I wish this was true 

[Young]

1 hour ago, CJ. said:

They kept saying arrow got a new bus. It must be 9400

Can anyone actually confirm if it’s at Arrow Rd?

[TechnicaProductions]

Who cares where it is? It's not gonna enter service for at least a couple months

[Articulated]

25 minutes ago, AmiralRises said:

Question: When 9400 is entering service?

11 minutes ago, G.A said:

Not for a very long time. They have to train mechanics and drivers first before anything. Don't worry about rushing around to see if you can find it they will enter service in time.

Also, if it's like any of the previous pilot buses received by the TTC, it may need to go back to the factory first for retrofits to match any changes the TTC wants made before the rest of the production order arrives. Both 1200 and 9000 were the same way, as pilot buses for their orders.

[81-717]

Does 9400 have the blue lights, or did they switch to white, or drop them entirely?

[FlyerD901]

2 hours ago, 81-717 said:

Does 9400 have the blue lights, or did they switch to white, or drop them entirely?

I notice 7200 has room for the blue light. 

[Young]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:54 PM, CJ. said:

It ended up at arrow road (apparently) not 100% though if it is 9400

I rode the 99 Arrow Rd bus through the garage and there was no XDE60 outside and I asked the driver if they heard about a new bus at Arrow and they said no so maybe it was delivered to a different garage or to a warranty shop because Michigan is 5 hours away and that picture was from Saturday so the bus must be in Toronto by now

[PrimeTio]

It’s at a sublet contractor in the GTA. 

[GZ6113PHEV5]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:45 AM, AmiralRises said:

Question: When 9400 is entering service?

Not yet already. It is just the only new bus in Toronto now.

[wt_enthusiast_photos]

I got photos WITHOUT TRASPASSING of some TTC XDE40

 

51 minutes ago, Young said:

Dumb question but why are they shipping to the states do they do other things in the USA factory then what they do at the Winnipeg factory?

Winnipeg only makes what you see In the photo. Only the shells and other stuff. Everything else is finished in the Cranston

[Young]

Does anyone have interior pictures of the XDE40s or XDE60s? If not you don’t have to answer rudely or at all

[Mar_AC_23]

When the hybrid artics enter service, artic allocation would logically look like this:

Arrow: 36 Finch West (pre-Line 6)

Malvern: 905 Eglinton East Express, 985 Sheppard East Express, 986 Scarborough Express (partial)

McNicoll: 939 Finch Express, 953 Steeles East Express

Mount Dennis: 29 Dufferin, 35 Jane (partial), 927 Highway 27 Express, 929 Dufferin Express, 935 Jane Express, 941 Keele Express

Wilson: 7 Bathurst, 960 Steeles West Express

The 35 shouldn't be a full conversion because of how busy Jane is and artics on any route usually widens headways, which creates a potential for unnecessary gaps along the route resulting in longer wait times, and jam packed buses. The 36 only needs them until line 6 opens, then they can be reallocated to another route, which might be the 939. For the 960, it should be a 1:1 replacement while keeping the route at the same headway. When it comes to the 986, that route can definitely benefit having artics, but maybe only some runs because even at the current headway, the route is usually jam packed most of the time.

[Crix]

Off-topic question, why doesn't a route like 54 Lawrence get the artics? 

[Articulated]

4 minutes ago, Crix said:

Off-topic question, why doesn't a route like 54 Lawrence get the artics? 

Because the TTC only has so many artics to go around, and there are a lot of busy routes in the city.

Also, 54 Lawrence East is operated out of Eglinton garage, which is not equipped to handle or maintain articulated buses.

[Xtrazsteve]

TTC prefers that express routes get artics only as it adds additional run times. That just makes the route worse. You have to wait longer for a bus to drive slower.

[Young]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

TTC prefers that express routes get artics only as it adds additional run times. That just makes the route worse. You have to wait longer for a bus to drive slower.

The slow part should change since the XDE60s are a bit faster than the Nova artics. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but they do seem faster than the novas at least in Mississauga 

[Articulated]

Artics don't have a lower top speed - they have slower acceleration.

The same engine (largely) as a 40 foot bus is having to push 20 extra feet, but once it gets up to speed it can maintain it just as well. This is the reason why TTC prefers to use them on Express routes, as they generally spend more time at speed in between stops.

Hybrid artics could benefit in acceleration speed over a diesel artic, but hybrid 40 footers also accelerate faster than diesel 40 footers; unless an extra axle is powered, it's difficult for artics to go faster than standard buses.

[981]

4 minutes ago, Articulated said:

Artics don't have a lower top speed - they have slower acceleration.

The same engine (largely) as a 40 foot bus is having to push 20 extra feet, but once it gets up to speed it can maintain it just as well. This is the reason why TTC prefers to use them on Express routes, as they generally spend more time at speed in between stops.

I wonder if this is true for pullers, like a Van Hool AG300

Edit: Cummins seems to have ditched the 330hp L9 for diesel artics, and I believe you can only get a 350hp L9 for diesel artics. Torque seems to have been bumped by 50 lb ft over the previous L9s. You can still get a 330hp L9, but only for hybrid applications, so I wonder if the extra HP and torque will make a noticeable difference. Source is the Cummins website and CPTDB wiki

Edited April 2, 2023 by 981

[Articulated]

Just now, 981 said:

I wonder if this is true for pullers, like a Van Hool AG300

It's still one engine, powering one axle, pulling/pushing 20 extra feet of bus.

I don't have a firm grasp of the physics on puller vs pusher artics, but I don't think acceleration is usually quoted as a determining factor in their design.

[GZ6113PHEV5]

Are this batch of hybrid-electric buses the last hybrid conventional buses that TTC purchases？

[Mar_AC_23]

21 minutes ago, GZ6113PHEV5 said:

Are this batch of hybrid-electric buses the last hybrid conventional buses that TTC purchases？

If I remember correctly, plans have changed and they may continue to order hybrid buses until 2030.

[GZ6113PHEV5]

10 hours ago, Shemar said:

If I remember correctly, plans have changed and they may continue to order hybrid buses until 2030.

Do they mean that there will not be another batch of electric buses on order until 2030？

[Mar_AC_23]

2 hours ago, GZ6113PHEV5 said:

Do they mean that there will not be another batch of electric buses on order until 2030？

Electric buses will probably still be ordered. I honestly think it's better that they give the eBus technology time to improve and evolve before they go "all-in" on them.

[MRD10]

On April 6th, at 7:20 PM, around Highway 401 & Highway 6, I saw one of these New Flyer Artics travelling west to London. I presume to Windsor or Sarnia to cross the border to Michigan. 

The destination was set to route 77 Swansea. 

No, I did not take a photo, I was headed to Toronto.