Misc. OC Transpo & STO Questions & Discussion

[ZümmyZüm]

26 this year and 76 next year IIRC. All electric and a mix of nova and flyer, also unlikely the inveros will go since there's still a transition phase and OC will likely want to keep diesels as a protection measure. Articulated buses won't be purchased till 2025 so expect the LFRs to last till '27 at the earliest 

[Loud-Invero]

I hear OC Transpo and the city is broke and strapping for cash... I have an idea, station special constables on Scott street (Ottawa River Parkway at Dominion station) and let them issue fines to inpatient drivers who attempt to bypass the ORP backups by using the Transitway. Doubt queue jumpers won't go 30 km/h on the bridge or stop at the stop sign either, so hey, more tickets. I could see decent money being made off of fines from HTA offences alone at that station.

[bsnider001]

1 hour ago, Loud-Invero said:

I hear OC Transpo and the city is broke and strapping for cash... I have an idea, station special constables on Scott street (Ottawa River Parkway at Dominion station) and let them issue fines to inpatient drivers who attempt to bypass the ORP backups by using the Transitway. Doubt queue jumpers won't go 30 km/h on the bridge or stop at the stop sign either, so hey, more tickets. I could see decent money being made off of fines from HTA offences alone at that station.

Transit shouldn't be a for-profit service, anywhere, in any city. Also, we voted in a mayor who doesn't care about transit services...

I'd like to see OC Transpo stop allowing back-door boarding on any bus not in a fare-paid zone... speeding up service clearly is not a valid reason anymore. Sure, "ridership" will drop but then they can at least ensure most passengers actually pay for their trip...

4 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

26 this year and 76 next year IIRC. All electric and a mix of nova and flyer, also unlikely the inveros will go since there's still a transition phase and OC will likely want to keep diesels as a protection measure. Articulated buses won't be purchased till 2025 so expect the LFRs to last till '27 at the earliest 

I'd like to see where the city actually needs articulated buses once all the stages of the LRT are done... I do understand that would be well after 2025, but every 60-foot bus I see is half-full, at most... seems like a bit of a waste to me.

[ZümmyZüm]

28 minutes ago, bsnider001 said:

Transit shouldn't be a for-profit service, anywhere, in any city. Also, we voted in a mayor who doesn't care about transit services...

I'd like to see OC Transpo stop allowing back-door boarding on any bus not in a fare-paid zone... speeding up service clearly is not a valid reason anymore. Sure, "ridership" will drop but then they can at least ensure most passengers actually pay for their trip...

I'd like to see where the city actually needs articulated buses once all the stages of the LRT are done... I do understand that would be well after 2025, but every 60-foot bus I see is half-full, at most... seems like a bit of a waste to me.

12,25,30,61,62,74,75,85,88,111

 

Can't remember the last time I drove one of those routes where it wasn't packed

[MCIBUS]

Let's be honest here and face reality. The only way OC going to ger out of this hole is if the feds force their employee's back to  in work place 5 days a week instead of this 2 or 3 days a week. The city has to do the same. Yeah I work for the city, my job requires me to be a work 5 days a week can;t work from home like other city employees. 

Before Covid the majority of works in this city worked at the office true there have been a few exception, but most worked at the office, now just because they found it easier to work from home they don't want go back.

 

The hell with those who work in restaurant biz who fed you before Covide, now we don't care if you loose your job or the biz closes. If Fed/city workers truly cared about those workers they'd return to 5 days a week, but they don't, they only care for what's best for them and screw the rest.

Sorry to those that I may have offended, but that the way it is some may not like it, but unless workers return to 5 days a week, OC will never get out of this hole their in because 2 or 3 day a week isn't working other wise OC wouldn't be in the hole their in.

[GTAmissions1]

13 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

12,25,30,61,62,74,75,85,88,111

Can't remember the last time I drove one of those routes where it wasn't packed

I remember when Route 96: Kanata/Stittsville via downtown (the current Route 61 today) operated with 40 ft regular buses with a frequency bump of every 10 minutes on weekends/holidays back in 2012/2013. To better match ridership demand versus operating articulated buses every 15 minutes and of course, there were complaints about buses reaching capacity when servicing downtown. 

Seeing some passengers turned away at Bayshore Station which if the person waiting wanted to go beyond Terry Fox Station, the strategy would be to take any 96 Kanata/Terry Fox to the final stop, then board a 96 Stittsville Main to reach the final destination to be accommodated. Trying to wait for a 96 Stittsville Main where the higher passenger volume on a 30 minute frequency definitely would be waiting a long time. 

Even if the frequency is 10 minutes with a shorter bus, I personally would take the 15 minute frequency if I know that there will be capacity on-board to handle than wait for the next departure or two to be accommodated. 

[CanadianBrick1]

53 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

12,25,30,61,62,74,75,85,88,111

 

Can't remember the last time I drove one of those routes where it wasn't packed

I can corroborate the 25 being busy, especially during rush hour (obviously). The high school students usually fill up the first couple trips to the brim too in the PM

 

OC kinda has two options, use one higher capacity bus with one driver, or use two 40ft buses with two drivers. Why add an extra driver when you don't need to

[Centralsmt]

1 hour ago, MCIBUS said:

Let's be honest here and face reality. The only way OC going to ger out of this hole is if the feds force their employee's back to  in work place 5 days a week instead of this 2 or 3 days a week. The city has to do the same. Yeah I work for the city, my job requires me to be a work 5 days a week can;t work from home like other city employees. 

Before Covid the majority of works in this city worked at the office true there have been a few exception, but most worked at the office, now just because they found it easier to work from home they don't want go back.

 

The hell with those who work in restaurant biz who fed you before Covide, now we don't care if you loose your job or the biz closes. If Fed/city workers truly cared about those workers they'd return to 5 days a week, but they don't, they only care for what's best for them and screw the rest.

Sorry to those that I may have offended, but that the way it is some may not like it, but unless workers return to 5 days a week, OC will never get out of this hole their in because 2 or 3 day a week isn't working other wise OC wouldn't be in the hole their in.

As a Federal Government employee, who actually does work in the office 5 days a week, as does my wife, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Due to changes in Government working practice and office relocations workers don’t even have their own desk anymore and have to share one with a colleague. Where do you suggest putting them all?

What needs to change Downtown is the attitude of the city and business owners themselves, convert empty offices into affordable accommodation, hotels and entertainment facilities like concert venues or theatres, adapt to what people actually want. There isn’t even a decent cinema Downtown any more. Make it attractive to people to visit the city.

Working practices have changed all over the world, not just in Ottawa, it’s about time politicians of all parties accepted that.

OC also needs to adapt and change , have routes to where people want to go, stop relying on commuter traffic, run frequent services to leisure facilities, malls ect. Make it more attractive to take the bus. However there is such negativity surrounding OC, much of it justified, any attempts to change or adapt are immediately derided in the media, by politicians, nutcases on social media and various online communities and even on here without even giving it a chance.

 

 

[bsnider001]

3 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

12,25,30,61,62,74,75,85,88,111

 

Can't remember the last time I drove one of those routes where it wasn't packed

I see half full buses on both the 61 and 62 all the time. But… I only tend to go as far east as Bayshore and usually I’m west of Bayshore (usually in Kanata). The 88 is a similar story… I’m usually only as far east as Algonquin. I can’t speak for the other routes mentioned.

To be fair, though, I was referring to when the stage two LRT was open, meaning the 61/62/63 would end at Moodie presumably, and the 74/75 would end at Algonquin. Perhaps in 2025 and beyond there might still be a need for artics and DDs, but maybe not as much as now in 2024.

My comment was also related to running artics on routes like the 161 in Kanata that really don’t need them, but with interlining and just availability of resources, there’s no guarantee that an artic wouldn’t end up on a route that doesn’t need one.

 

2 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

I remember when Route 96: Kanata/Stittsville via downtown (the current Route 61 today) operated with 40 ft regular buses with a frequency bump of every 10 minutes on weekends/holidays back in 2012/2013. To better match ridership demand versus operating articulated buses every 15 minutes and of course, there were complaints about buses reaching capacity when servicing downtown. 

Seeing some passengers turned away at Bayshore Station which if the person waiting wanted to go beyond Terry Fox Station, the strategy would be to take any 96 Kanata/Terry Fox to the final stop, then board a 96 Stittsville Main to reach the final destination to be accommodated. Trying to wait for a 96 Stittsville Main where the higher passenger volume on a 30 minute frequency definitely would be waiting a long time. 

Even if the frequency is 10 minutes with a shorter bus, I personally would take the 15 minute frequency if I know that there will be capacity on-board to handle than wait for the next departure or two to be accommodated. 

I also remember that. And now that you’ve brought up the driver situation (besides the fact that OC is already struggling with bus drivers) it would make more sense to run four artics in an hour than six 40-footers, for example.

[ZümmyZüm]

Regardless, a 60ft bus is essential and does not need to be packed. 3 doors and 60ft long helps the flow much better than a 40 and usually maintains a 80% seated load, you don't need crush loaded every trip (although that means more funding would come our way) 

Stage 2 completion is just pushing routes to other pinchpoints. 75 will remain packed to baseline, 61/62 will pack up at moodie and the rest will continue to grow as more students keep enrolling and ideally stay in ottawa. 

As for downtown workers... it's not the responsibility of the federal workers or their union to help OC Transpo,  OC has all the tools they need to readjust and serve everywhere else as Centralsmt stated. It's just they continue to ignore common requests. 

Artics on low ridership routes.. right now 2/4 garages are closed on weekends so that's why a 168 gets one because the work is out of industrial (it's actually very full as well) Other routes like the 161,164 are heavily interlined. Personally I'm in favor of more 40s because it means more service for the public but we need a poop ton more funding to do that. 

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:42 PM, MCIBUS said:

Let's be honest here and face reality. The only way OC going to ger out of this hole is if the feds force their employee's back to  in work place 5 days a week instead of this 2 or 3 days a week. The city has to do the same. Yeah I work for the city, my job requires me to be a work 5 days a week can;t work from home like other city employees. 

Before Covid the majority of works in this city worked at the office true there have been a few exception, but most worked at the office, now just because they found it easier to work from home they don't want go back.

 

The hell with those who work in restaurant biz who fed you before Covide, now we don't care if you loose your job or the biz closes. If Fed/city workers truly cared about those workers they'd return to 5 days a week, but they don't, they only care for what's best for them and screw the rest.

Sorry to those that I may have offended, but that the way it is some may not like it, but unless workers return to 5 days a week, OC will never get out of this hole their in because 2 or 3 day a week isn't working other wise OC wouldn't be in the hole their in.

On 4/11/2024 at 9:10 PM, Centralsmt said:

As a Federal Government employee, who actually does work in the office 5 days a week, as does my wife, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Due to changes in Government working practice and office relocations workers don’t even have their own desk anymore and have to share one with a colleague. Where do you suggest putting them all?

What needs to change Downtown is the attitude of the city and business owners themselves, convert empty offices into affordable accommodation, hotels and entertainment facilities like concert venues or theatres, adapt to what people actually want. There isn’t even a decent cinema Downtown any more. Make it attractive to people to visit the city.

Working practices have changed all over the world, not just in Ottawa, it’s about time politicians of all parties accepted that.

OC also needs to adapt and change , have routes to where people want to go, stop relying on commuter traffic, run frequent services to leisure facilities, malls ect. Make it more attractive to take the bus. However there is such negativity surrounding OC, much of it justified, any attempts to change or adapt are immediately derided in the media, by politicians, nutcases on social media and various online communities and even on here without even giving it a chance.

The cracks and shortcomings of Ottawa's commuter-centric downtown and transit system were already apparent before the pandemic--the pandemic just made it really obvious. MCIBUS ignores the fact suburban businesses have been major beneficiaries to people staying in their communities. Downtown revitalisation cannot rely on people being there Monday to Friday 8:30 am to 4:30 pm, it needs people there 24/7 (ie. residents) to be successful. Similarly, the success of OC Transpo needs more than commuters (though the stable revenue from passes was nice).

[bsnider001]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:01 PM, bsnider001 said:

This post (and not the fact that I was moving pics... lol) reminded me that I had a few photos of the pilot-project double-decker buses (1201-1203) lying around... the first photo is bus 1201 on a then-96 Blair (now the 61) at Rideau Centre on the Mackenzie King bridge. The other pic is of a pilot-project double decker (bus 1202 by the looks of it) at Bayshore Mall (note the old parking garage at Bayshore Mall in the pic) on what I would assume is the then-97 South Keys (now the 57).

Further to my post earlier, the second pic was indeed bus 1202 leaving Bayshore on what was then the 97X South Keys. Photos were from June 16, 2011. Here is another pic of 1202 leaving Bayshore that day.

Also for the fun of it. Here is bus 8018 on the then 62 (now the 267) in Kanata (Glen Cairn) on September 17, 2013.

[JCL]

Bus 2104 has a new ad-wrap that says "New Ways to Bus" (as part of the upcoming route changes following the 2023 Route Review).

YouTube video posted by someone: 

 

[sdgta2008]

***Unverified*** I got word earlier today that the first of 9 LFS-A HEVs have arrived at the STO.  I didn't realize the STO had LFS-A's on order...  It's about time they get some new ones though.

[bsnider001]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:31 PM, sdgta2008 said:

***Unverified*** I got word earlier today that the first of 9 LFS-A HEVs have arrived at the STO.  I didn't realize the STO had LFS-A's on order...  It's about time they get some new ones though.

LFS-A HEV... those are 60-ft articulated hybrid-electric LFS models? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm not super familiar with the Nova LFS models.

Speaking of the STO.. are they planning to go full-electric for transit buses like OC is? If so, I'd presume they'd be ordering Nova LFSe+ models?

[Oc4526]

5 hours ago, bsnider001 said:

LFS-A HEV... those are 60-ft articulated hybrid-electric LFS models? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm not super familiar with the Nova LFS models.

Speaking of the STO.. are they planning to go full-electric for transit buses like OC is? If so, I'd presume they'd be ordering Nova LFSe+ models?

Correct LFS-A HEV = Hybred Artics 

[sdgta2008]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:32 AM, bsnider001 said:

LFS-A HEV... those are 60-ft articulated hybrid-electric LFS models? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm not super familiar with the Nova LFS models.

Speaking of the STO.. are they planning to go full-electric for transit buses like OC is? If so, I'd presume they'd be ordering Nova LFSe+ models?

STO has a few LFSe+ buses on order.  Nova Bus currently doesn't offer fully electric articulated buses.  They did test the 60 ft New Flyer Xcelsior Charge, but I'm sure they wouldn't want to anger Minister Guilbault by purchasing them 

[CanadianBrick1]

You can now search vehicle numbers on transsee for OC Transpo, which makes it exceptionally easier to track the activity of each Invero for example (like I'm doing) daily

[GTAmissions1]

24 minutes ago, CanadianBrick1 said:

You can now search vehicle numbers on transsee for OC Transpo, which makes it exceptionally easier to track the activity of each Invero for example (like I'm doing) daily

You can also track vehicles on the routes too. Just select vehicles after selecting a route.

Sometimes, you find it interesting what buses are assigned on x route or how many are assigned on that route. No need to manually take the estimated running time divided by the frequency to get the total amount of vehicles running. 

Of course the interlining can influence vehicle assignment. 

Decided to check how many vehicles are on 39 which is around 5 currently. 75 has around 8 buses. 

If this existed over a decade ago, I think it would be interesting to see how many buses are assigned to the rapid transit routes 95, 96 and 97. I think it would be a lot more volume compared to today when a lot of cutbacks are planned to redesign a network not focused on downtown travel. 

Looking forward to seeing how many buses are used for NightBus routes. My guess back then was around I think 15 buses, but we will see what the data shows. 

[JCL]

48 minutes ago, CanadianBrick1 said:

You can now search vehicle numbers on transsee for OC Transpo, which makes it exceptionally easier to track the activity of each Invero for example (like I'm doing) daily

 

16 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

You can also track vehicles on the routes too. Just select vehicles after selecting a route.

Sometimes, you find it interesting what buses are assigned on x route or how many are assigned on that route. No need to manually take the estimated running time divided by the frequency to get the total amount of vehicles running. 

Of course the interlining can influence vehicle assignment. 

Decided to check how many vehicles are on 39 which is around 5 currently. 75 has around 8 buses. 

If this existed over a decade ago, I think it would be interesting to see how many buses are assigned to the rapid transit routes 95, 96 and 97. I think it would be a lot more volume compared to today when a lot of cutbacks are planned to redesign a network not focused on downtown travel. 

Looking forward to seeing how many buses are used for NightBus routes. My guess back then was around I think 15 buses, but we will see what the data shows. 

The ability to search the vehicle (fleet number) has to do with the new GPS Realtime Data that OC Transpo has released to the public for anybody (app developers) to use. 

It's nice to see Transee has implemented this new change. 

[bsnider001]

This came up on my Facebook feed today and I felt it was interesting.

[OC Transpo/STO Fan]

Not sure where to post this, but it looks like 6366 has been retrofitted with LEDs (rode it recently). Not sure if it was like that since the refurbishment or if it recently got them. 

6366:

6381 for comparison:

[ZümmyZüm]

On 5/2/2024 at 4:35 PM, OC Transpo/STO Fan said:

Not sure where to post this, but it looks like 6366 has been retrofitted with LEDs (rode it recently). Not sure if it was like that since the refurbishment or if it recently got them. 

6366:

6381 for comparison:

And it's horrible to drive with it, the curve on the windshield causes the glare to take up almost half the window.. solid rebuild though, the turbo lag is almost non existent

[bsnider001]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:26 PM, ZümmyZüm said:

And it's horrible to drive with it, the curve on the windshield causes the glare to take up almost half the window.. solid rebuild though, the turbo lag is almost non existent

I didn’t even realize the D60LF buses had turbos… lol.

[kitortransit]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:19 AM, bsnider001 said:

I didn’t even realize the D60LF buses had turbos… lol.

The D40i’s and Novas have turbos that are easy to recognize, D60LF, D60LFR, and Enviro500 (ISL9 and L9) has much quieter turbos that are harder to recognize (ones i rode)

Finn