Future TTC Bus Orders

[Stops At]

3 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

Have they considered evaluating a XE60?

As for the 200 HEVs, could they still number them in the 7xxxs?

We all now know how the TTC is. They will use a different number per order and model. My original thought was the 6000 series would be numbered in the 2000s, but they chose the 6000s as the new numbering scheme.

[M. Parsons]

5 hours ago, T3G said:

What happens if they need to hold on to those buses for whatever reason? 

Under "Decision History" on pages 2 and 3 of the document that seems to be covered. The contract allows for extensions, and indeed, nearly an extra 2 years was needed to send off all buses for scrap under the contract. So it seems they just keep going until the contracted amount is fulfilled.

[Genius101]

On 7/10/2025 at 9:23 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

We are still in phase 1 of the plan. Only 1/3 of the 124 charger points are in service with the rest supposedly going into service in September at Wilson, Malvern and McNicoll.

There is no confidence in that happening on time.

Please 2a for 124 been MtD and Eglinton is suppose to complete in April according to the report. That’s when they’ll have enough for all the buses being delivered. So it’ll be chaos with shortages.

Wilson., Malvern and McNicoll on the list eh and the 1 division or area in the city that still can't serve ebuses continues to be neglected and treated like dirt by not receiving modernized infrastructure man this is so infuriating it's getting really really really frustrating 

[GZ6113PHEV5]

What may be targeted for replacement with the 250 buses? 

[WoodbineSecondExit]

6 hours ago, Genius101 said:

Wilson., Malvern and McNicoll on the list eh and the 1 division or area in the city that still can't serve ebuses continues to be neglected and treated like dirt by not receiving modernized infrastructure man this is so infuriating it's getting really really really frustrating 

I'd send all of those electric buses to Queensway myself if it would stop your prattling. It would keep that garbage away from the rest of the city.

[Mar_AC_23]

6 hours ago, Genius101 said:

Wilson., Malvern and McNicoll on the list eh and the 1 division or area in the city that still can't serve ebuses continues to be neglected and treated like dirt by not receiving modernized infrastructure man this is so infuriating it's getting really really really frustrating 

It's not "neglect" as you call it. They just aren't able to accommodate electric buses. It's not something that any of us here can control. Queensway is an older division and the height clearance isn't high enough for them to be able to safely operate and maintain certain buses. Expressing your frustration here in a public forum won't change anything. 

[Violet Evergarden]

 

5 hours ago, GZ6113PHEV5 said:

What may be targeted for replacement with the 250 buses? 

The rest of the Orion VIIs and some 2015-16 LFS units (the best ones can be sold off as second hand units).

 

39 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

I'd send all of those electric buses to Queensway myself if it would stop your prattling. It would keep that garbage away from the rest of the city.

6 hours ago, Genius101 said:

Wilson., Malvern and McNicoll on the list eh and the 1 division or area in the city that still can't serve ebuses continues to be neglected and treated like dirt by not receiving modernized infrastructure man this is so infuriating it's getting really really really frustrating 

Queensway is expected to get the equipment ready for the hybrid electric buses in the future but their future successor Kipling Garage at Obico will get new electric buses and modern infrastructure instead.

The Queensway Garage we know today would eventually wound up as the new Wheel-Trans garage which would also servicing community bus routes west of Yonge, while Lakeshore Garage would be responsible doing Wheel-Trans and community bus east of Yonge as well. If that fails, they might as well turn over Queensway to the City to either lease to a school bus company or house a fleet of garbage trucks that services pickups west of Yonge.

Again @Genius101 this was thirty years ago. Queensway has newer equipment but albeit seven years old. Call your local councilor and tell them why "Queensway does not get newer buses?".

[T3G]

23 minutes ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

Call your local councilor and tell them why "Queensway does not get newer buses?".

Better idea: don't do that, and stop making your persecution complex someone else's problem.

The last thing we need is for some idiot politician to start meddling in TTC operations because of a perceived wrong against the ridership. That's how we get overbuilt nonsense like the Scarborough subway.

[FlyerD901]

6 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

 

The rest of the Orion VIIs and some 2015-16 LFS units (the best ones can be sold off as second hand units).

 

Queensway is expected to get the equipment ready for the hybrid electric buses in the future but their future successor Kipling Garage at Obico will get new electric buses and modern infrastructure instead.

The Queensway Garage we know today would eventually wound up as the new Wheel-Trans garage which would also servicing community bus routes west of Yonge, while Lakeshore Garage would be responsible doing Wheel-Trans and community bus east of Yonge as well. If that fails, they might as well turn over Queensway to the City to either lease to a school bus company or house a fleet of garbage trucks that services pickups west of Yonge.

Again @Genius101 this was thirty years ago. Queensway has newer equipment but albeit seven years old. Call your local councilor and tell them why "Queensway does not get newer buses?".

Contacting the local councilor is wild. But at the same times it's actually been successful. 

In 2005 or so, I forget , customers on 89 Weston complained of old buses being used and they wanted newer looking buses. So they transfered the route from Wilson to Queensway. 

So it's been done in the last. I also believe the reason why Micnicol got Flyers was because of Jamaal the TTC Chair. 

So if you make a good case, they might listen. 

But as T3G said, we don't need politicians meddling into TTC affairs. Especially with elections coming next year, I can see a councilor making an attempt. 

13 hours ago, Genius101 said:

Wilson., Malvern and McNicoll on the list eh and the 1 division or area in the city that still can't serve ebuses continues to be neglected and treated like dirt by not receiving modernized infrastructure man this is so infuriating it's getting really really really frustrating 

Do you really want ebuses roaming your route? 

Hopefully it's hybrids that Queensway gets. Maybe new buses in 2027, if it's flyer 

[MRD10]

6 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

So it's been done in the last. I also believe the reason why Micnicol got Flyers was because of Jamaal the TTC Chair. 

Just curious why this is something you suspect. Wouldn't Malvern make more sense, since it is actually in his Ward?

[Articulated]

22 minutes ago, MRD10 said:

Just curious why this is something you suspect. Wouldn't Malvern make more sense, since it is actually in his Ward?

The idea was that the SRT Replacement route (903) would operate with hybrid electric buses, so that the neighbourhoods along the routing would be exposed to less diesel fumes. (Never mind all the other buses on routes using the same corridor...). It was a political intervention to get at least some of the newest/"cleanest" buses to operate here. And because McNicoll garage operates the 903, they were the ones to get some XDE60s.

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, Articulated said:

The idea was that the SRT Replacement route (903) would operate with hybrid electric buses, so that the neighbourhoods along the routing would be exposed to less diesel fumes. (Never mind all the other buses on routes using the same corridor...). It was a political intervention to get at least some of the newest/"cleanest" buses to operate here. And because McNicoll garage operates the 903, they were the ones to get some XDE60s.

Except the 903 didn’t even run frequently making it pointless.

Having Malvern routes running along the busway provided more hybrid buses than the 129B+903 ever did.

[FlyerD901]

15 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Except the 903 didn’t even run frequently making it pointless.

Having Malvern routes running along the busway provided more hybrid buses than the 129B+903 ever did.

It's still enough for political points. Analyzing any other way won't change the publics mindset . 

903 replaced the SRT. Even if other routes are more frequent on it. 

A lot of what TTC does is false sense of image and optics. An agency used to make politicians look good. 

The EV buses is another example of buses we all know is not a suitable replacement, but because it fulfills this political green agenda , thats good enough to keep ordering them. 

And many other projects at TTC. This isn't new and has been going on for decades. 

The public will never analyze TTC like the way this site does. So TTC can always get away with a lot of nonsense. 

Let there be a public financial audit, with live stream findings. Do that for every city department. 99% of the public will have a heart attack. It's all a game being ran by city officials on the general public. 

[Mind_the_gap]

It's not just this, it bothers me how many Canadians are married to their non-medical masks.

[...]

Honestly, if we're buying Chinese BYD's, why can't we have Chinese Yutongs like London.

The Yutongs in Helsinki at least have been copied from their Western counterparts, and seem to be far more reliable, and esthetically pleasing.

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, Mind_the_gap said:

It's not just this, it bothers me how many "Canadians" are married to their non-medical masks.

As @drum118 once said on UT/SkyriseCities: "F*** your Freedom".

Honestly, if we're buying Chinese BYD's, why can't we have Chinese Yutongs like London.

The Yutongs in Helsinki at least have been copied from their Western counterparts, and seem to be far more reliable, and esthetically pleasing.

I’m pretty sure it’ll be buying Canadian in the near future. The non Canadian buses didn’t do so well.

[T3G]

On 7/15/2025 at 1:39 PM, FlyerD901 said:

Let there be a public financial audit, with live stream findings. Do that for every city department. 99% of the public will have a heart attack. It's all a game being ran by city officials on the general public

Ha! If only it was limited to just this city. Stupidity appears to be the only requirement these days for someone to be given a job of consequence. Politicians, managers, CEOs... the less competent you are, the more likely you'll be put in charge of something important and inevitably mess it up.

[FlyerD901]

Steve Munro 

EV Buses update. July 17 board meeting

Let's not be all that surprised about the fundings. 

I was going they would order more, so the public get a first hand experience if an unreliable product, and maybe more attention to how TTC is ran. 

8 hours ago, T3G said:

Ha! If only it was limited to just this city. Stupidity appears to be the only requirement these days for someone to be given a job of consequence. Politicians, managers, CEOs... the less competent you are, the more likely you'll be put in charge of something important and inevitably mess it up. 

It's a form of job security too. Why hire someone that's smarter than you. And of course , not just TTC, but 80% of workplace, ppl get hired based on who they know , and not what they know. 

This is why expecting TTC to do something right, logicalily is a lost cause. 

Even the most basic fleet organization , they struggle with that. It's a reflection of how they do business. Operational practices , with route and bus allocations. The lack of efficiency. 

Steve Munro does a good job of exposing TTC. But it's also a good example of no matter how you break it down with his blog, the fast majority of the public is still oblivious, or simply don't care, unless the media brings it up. Like some controlled emotional response towards to public. 

[Xtrazsteve]

We shouldn’t even be surprised at the findings. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how terrible the situation really is. TTC has been working with batteries on buses since 2006 and they know how bad they are back then on the Orion VIIs. It took them a complete battery replacement and years to sort out those issues. I’m glad to spotted you 1000 yesterday.

Then again there’s another genius on this board that wants these buses near them.

[FlyerD901]

9 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

We shouldn’t even be surprised at the findings. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how terrible the situation really is. TTC has been working with batteries on buses since 2006 and they know how bad they are back then on the Orion VIIs. It took them a complete battery replacement and years to sort out those issues. I’m glad to spotted you 1000 yesterday.

Then again there’s another genius on this board that wants these buses near them.

It's genius because while politicians lie and say they're helping save the environment, behind the scene these same ppl are getting a lick back from these lobbyist. 

And you have plenty of ppl thinking these EV buses are saving the environment. Untill you see the full harm when it comes to getting the raw material for batteries and the harm it does to the environment, and then the disposal of batteries and the harm it does to the environment. 

Calling politicans stupid is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don't know any better. Which in turn means their not accountable. Really they know exactly what their doing because they all have some hidden money laundered to them. 

I'm not saying theres an environmental issue in general, but let's not act like this EV agenda is going to help either. 

 

[Xtrazsteve]

Just now, FlyerD901 said:

It's genius because while politicians lie and say they're helping save the environment, behind the scene these same ppl are getting a lick back from these lobbyist. 

And you have plenty of ppl thinking these EV buses are saving the environment. Untill you see the full harm when it comes to getting the raw material for batteries and the harm it does to the environment, and then the disposal of batteries and the harm it does to the environment. 

Calling politicans stupid is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don't know any better. Which in turn means their not accountable. Really they know exactly what their doing because they all have some hidden money laundered to them. 

I'm not saying theres an environmental issue in general, but let's not act like this EV agenda is going to help either. 

 

They should see how much more manufacturing they need to produce those batteries. The cost doubling from 600k to over 1.25m per bus already tells the story of how much more environmental damage occurred before the bus even got put on the road.

If transit was a private buses, ebuses wouldn’t have been brought. 
 

I want to see how long till they give up and consider trolley buses.

[Ed T.]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

I want to see how long till they give up and consider trolley buses.

Leafs will likely win the Stanley Cup multiple times before that. The heat death of the universe may come first.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

For the last couple of years I've been hearing online chatter from sock puppets insisting the streetcar order should have been an order for high tech articulated battery buses, sometimes vaguely referencing the success stories in places like China as proof of battery bus readiness for prime time. Imagine a brand new fleet that sees the road about as much as CLRV's did at the end. At this point I just about assume anyone advocating for battery buses is either a naive fool, a shill, or a moron.

I should have also said ulterior motives as option four.

[Ed T.]

Steve Munro has done an article on this:

https://stevemunro.ca/2025/07/16/the-troubled-state-of-ttc-green-buses/

My take is that the buses would probably work fine as buses, if the infrastructure was there. And the infrastructure is not rocket science. However, it needs proper project management. 

What's the last time the Toronto area has had good transit project management?

[FlyerD901]

4 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They should see how much more manufacturing they need to produce those batteries. The cost doubling from 600k to over 1.25m per bus already tells the story of how much more environmental damage occurred before the bus even got put on the road.

If transit was a private buses, ebuses wouldn’t have been brought. 
 

I want to see how long till they give up and consider trolley buses.

Ironically today is the anniversary of the last trolleys in Toronto. July 16 1993.