Streetcar News

[smallspy]

32 minutes ago, John Oke said:

When the 501 was closed west of Roncesvalles in 2017-2018 does anyone know if they put Pantograph overhead in?

The section on the Queensway and through Humber Loop is certainly "pantograph friendly". Whether there are any further adjustments necessary to make it "pantograph ready", I don't know.

 

Dan

[nfitz]

I'm surprised to see TTC officially blaming the lack of vehicle predictions for streetcars on Cubic and their GPS system. I'm not seeing how if Vision-based vehicles are working, but the others aren't, how it's Cubic. Nor did I think the GPS system was theirs - isn't this a communication system problem?

Looking at my Presto history yesterday, taps on both CLRVs and Flexities seem accurate (or at least no more messed up than usual).

[John Oke]

This part from a page on the TTC website shows that the 505 when Streetcars return may possibly be operating with Pantographs

 

*Sorry for the bad highlighting 

[Gil]

23 minutes ago, John Oke said:

This part from a page on the TTC website shows that the 505 when Streetcars return may possibly be operating with Pantographs

 

*Sorry for the bad highlighting 

I was thinking about this.  With the lengthy down time for the 505 streetcar, could they not have upgraded the overhead to be compatible with pantographs so that streetcar service could be restored sooner?  Or is it a matter of a shortage of (likely a combination) crew to do the work, funds to complete it or streetcars to resume full service?

[drum118]

35 minutes ago, Gil said:

I was thinking about this.  With the lengthy down time for the 505 streetcar, could they not have upgraded the overhead to be compatible with pantographs so that streetcar service could be restored sooner?  Or is it a matter of a shortage of (likely a combination) crew to do the work, funds to complete it or streetcars to resume full service?

With a lane close for traffic due to waterline work, impossible to have work take place on the overhead. Once sections of waterline work completed, TTC could do overhead work with traffic using the curb lane.

I figure 505 will see pans only in 2020 once all the new fleet is here and in service, as well all the other lines it may have to use due to detours. 2020 is supposed to be the full completion of the OS system wide.

[nfitz]

I get the impression the logic is more, "we won't have stretcars available until January or February, so might as well focus on this overhead now", rather than the overhead being the reason that service isn't resuming.

[Andythagiant]

The OCS has been slowly replaced. Broadview to Church has all been converted with the exception of the curve between Sherbourne and Jarvis.

[Ed T.]

2 hours ago, John Oke said:

This part from a page on the TTC website shows that the 505 when Streetcars return may possibly be operating with Pantographs

 

*Sorry for the bad highlighting 

I don't know if that's necessarily the case. The new cars take more power, so there are general improvements to the overhead and feeder cables whether they are running poles or pantographs.

Lake Shore Blvd should be pantograph-ready or close enough to it (I can't think of any sections that haven't been upgraded) but it's still poles on the 507 (aka 501L).

[John Oke]

31 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

I don't know if that's necessarily the case. The new cars take more power, so there are general improvements to the overhead and feeder cables whether they are running poles or pantographs.

Lake Shore Blvd should be pantograph-ready or close enough to it (I can't think of any sections that haven't been upgraded) but it's still poles on the 507 (aka 501L).

Kipling Loop?

[Ed T.]

52 minutes ago, John Oke said:

Kipling Loop?

The overhead over the special work is all upgraded--including the east-to-north curve. I assume it's done all around the loop itself. The loop was closed for a while for upgrades.

[drum118]

6 hours ago, Ed T. said:

The overhead over the special work is all upgraded--including the east-to-north curve. I assume it's done all around the loop itself. The loop was closed for a while for upgrades.

Everything from the Long Branch Loop to Park Side Dr is 100% converted for pans including Kipling Loop. From Park Side Dr to east of Roncesvalles intersection will be done in 2020 when the new ROW is built as well the full intersection for King/Queen/Roncesvalles. This includes tracks, switches, overhead to the yard as well at the intersection. 

Work was supposed to happen this year, but defer to 2020 as all the ducks weren't line up to do all the plan work.

No Streetcar service for 501 and 504 for months. Bus service will replace the streetcars starting at Dufferin St, as well being on detour during the construction. Plan another route or add lots of travel time during this mess.

[John Oke]

1 hour ago, drum118 said:

Everything from the Long Branch Loop to Park Side Dr is 100% converted for pans including Kipling Loop. From Park Side Dr to east of Roncesvalles intersection will be done in 2020 when the new ROW is built as well the full intersection for King/Queen/Roncesvalles. This includes tracks, switches, overhead to the yard as well at the intersection. 

Work was supposed to happen this year, but defer to 2020 as all the ducks weren't line up to do all the plan work.

No Streetcar service for 501 and 504 for months. Bus service will replace the streetcars starting at Dufferin St, as well being on detour during the construction. Plan another route or add lots of travel time during this mess.

Few things to say about the closure,

Dufferin Loop will be a mess with 4 separate routes 501,504A, 504B and 508 unless they can divert the 504A via Bathurst and Dundas to Dundas West Station, 

People along Lakeshore will be upset over losing streetcar service for the 2nd time in 4 years. 

Will there be enough capacity at Roncesvalles with one entrance blocked off? Or will we see more night service and storage at Exhibition Loop?

[TTC Guy]

10 hours ago, John Oke said:

Few things to say about the closure,

Dufferin Loop will be a mess with 4 separate routes 501,504A, 504B and 508 unless they can divert the 504A via Bathurst and Dundas to Dundas West Station, 

People along Lakeshore will be upset over losing streetcar service for the 2nd time in 4 years. 

Will there be enough capacity at Roncesvalles with one entrance blocked off? Or will we see more night service and storage at Exhibition Loop?

I think that the 504B will not be effected, even if the 504A does divert via Bathurst shuttles will still be needed

 

will Streetcars stay on the 507(501L) during the whole mess?

[Ed T.]

5 minutes ago, TTC Guy said:

will Streetcars stay on the 507(501L) during the whole mess?

The only reason I can think of that would make this even remotely a possibility is if there's a lack of storage space for streetcars. Otherwise, buses are operationally much better.

I don't have the statistics handy, but I would guess that Lake Shore has seen bustitution for a total of at least two to three years this decade. It's nothing new.

[TTC Guy]

38 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

The only reason I can think of that would make this even remotely a possibility is if there's a lack of storage space for streetcars. Otherwise, buses are operationally much better.

I don't have the statistics handy, but I would guess that Lake Shore has seen bustitution for a total of at least two to three years this decade. It's nothing new.

That’s what I was thinking, just wanted someone else’s opinion

[drum118]

There will be no storage at Roncesvalles Yard once construction starts on the intersection. Some cars will be store at the Ex at night as well other routes will see streetcar service at night in place of buses.

Its possible TTC may do what they did on St Clair when Bathurst St was close and that is store extra cars at Humber Loop to allow streetcar service for 501L/507.

Dufferin Loop will be a zoo during the construction phase until 501 or 504 is back into service, let alone both routes.

The northbound bus stop on Dufferin St at Queen will be a mess trying to handle both 501 and 29 service, especially 501 2 routes.

Even the car folks need to find a new route until all the construction is done as they will have next to no access to the area.

[John Oke]

25 minutes ago, drum118 said:

Its possible TTC may do what they did on St Clair when Bathurst St was close and that is store extra cars at Humber Loop to allow streetcar service for 501L/507.

 

It would be hard storing them at Humber because they're so out in the open and easily accessible for vandals 

[CLRV4094]

9 hours ago, drum118 said:

There will be no storage at Roncesvalles Yard once construction starts on the intersection. Some cars will be store at the Ex at night as well other routes will see streetcar service at night in place of buses.

Its possible TTC may do what they did on St Clair when Bathurst St was close and that is store extra cars at Humber Loop to allow streetcar service for 501L/507.

Dufferin Loop will be a zoo during the construction phase until 501 or 504 is back into service, let alone both routes.

The northbound bus stop on Dufferin St at Queen will be a mess trying to handle both 501 and 29 service, especially 501 2 routes.

Even the car folks need to find a new route until all the construction is done as they will have next to no access to the area.

I think what will likely happen is that 504A between Dundas West and Dufferin will run as a bus but divert around the Roncy/Queen intercestion and the 504B could run as one route serving both the Distillery and Broadview Station. 

 

9 hours ago, John Oke said:

It would be hard storing them at Humber because they're so out in the open and easily accessible for vandals 

I think it would be a great idea to store a few cars at Humber and Long Branch or Kipling Loops to retain service on 501L as a streetcar but they would need to staff it with at least one employee to prevent vandals. That's what the best solution to the above problem would likely be. 

[Shaun]

25 minutes ago, CLRV4094 said:

I think what will likely happen is that 504A between Dundas West and Dufferin will run as a bus but divert around the Roncy/Queen intercestion and the 504B could run as one route serving both the Distillery and Broadview Station. 

 

I think it would be a great idea to store a few cars at Humber and Long Branch or Kipling Loops to retain service on 501L as a streetcar but they would need to staff it with at least one employee to prevent vandals. That's what the best solution to the above problem would likely be. 

If you are going to park one car in the loop and have it manned, it would make sense just to have it in service. 

Shouldn't there be space once all of the CLRV's are hauled off for scrap? 

[smallspy]

23 hours ago, drum118 said:

There will be no storage at Roncesvalles Yard once construction starts on the intersection.

Says who?

 

They aren't working on the north gate at all. Cars can circulate within the yard without needing to travel off the property.

 

Dan

[drum118]

10 hours ago, smallspy said:

Says who?

 

They aren't working on the north gate at all. Cars can circulate within the yard without needing to travel off the property.

 

Dan

How about TTC and the City of Toronto During the Waterfront Reset EA Study.

[smallspy]

10 hours ago, drum118 said:

How about TTC and the City of Toronto During the Waterfront Reset EA Study.

I don't know about the Waterfront Reset, but during the announcement - and even the designs - for the upcoming work to the intersection, there was no indication of cars not being based at Roncesvalles. And the TTC themselves is operating under the assumption that Roncy will still be open during the construction.

 

Dan

[bus_7246]

11 minutes ago, smallspy said:

I don't know about the Waterfront Reset, but during the announcement - and even the designs - for the upcoming work to the intersection, there was no indication of cars not being based at Roncesvalles. And the TTC themselves is operating under the assumption that Roncy will still be open during the construction.

 

Dan

The cars will be utilizing the north gate to enter and exit Roncesvalles, but they will be reversed down the north facing tracks. When construction gets to a point that the South Gate will be re opened, the north gate will close. When that happens, tracks 1-5 and the north gate will see its rails torn up and replaced will the the reintroduction of tracks 3 and 4 as storage tracks

[Gil]

Anyone catch this at King & Portland or King & Peter?  (Photo from the linked article)

New raised transit stop platforms on King Street make it easier to board streetcars

 

Just wondering how the rerouted Premium Express Buses will treat the King & Peter stop.  I would hope that there's some sort of barrier immediately behind the camera's position to prevent a car from mounting the new platform.

[drum118]

15 hours ago, smallspy said:

I don't know about the Waterfront Reset, but during the announcement - and even the designs - for the upcoming work to the intersection, there was no indication of cars not being based at Roncesvalles. And the TTC themselves is operating under the assumption that Roncy will still be open during the construction.

 

Dan

Its not only the intersection, but also the Queensway to Parkside, a block east on Queen and up Roncesvalles past the yard entrance/exit. All the platforms on Roncesvalles will be rebuilt as well.

Its possible some changes in phasing may have taken place since the last EA team meeting that I sit on.

Bump out stops being built on Queen east side and the north side of Roncesvalles, along the removal of the west stop on the Queensway and the right turning lane.

We spent 2 year of wasted time reviewing all the EA's for the Waterfront from Long Branch Loop to Kingston Rd with no changes to the approved EA's. A few suggest changes to things not in any EA's were made.

The big issues is what to do with Union Loop, as it will require a 2-3 year closure and $600 million to do it. The funding is supposed to be in the 2019-29 capital budget, but no time frame when it will happen other maybe up and running by 2030 for the the loop and QQE extension. The Freeland portal could be shift to the west side of Yonge that would reduce cost and time frame.