Horror on a Greyhound bus!

[A. Wong]

Yeah I saw school buses as well on the Canada.com site.

Wonder what that mystery Greyhound is then.

[captaintrolley]

Maybe another hound that happened by in the same direction? Or it could have been another photo from their *files* that they hoped no one would know the difference.

[Red Rocket 191]

According to AM980 in London, wherever they get their sources ... they said that the suspect here engaged in cannibalism. If this is the media twisting the story, this is one hell of a way to do it. That disgusts me just thinking about it.

Sadly, it appears that this is true. I made the mistake of listening to recordings of the police scanner captured when officers were responding to the scene, and the officer observes the accused doing this unspeakable act.

[A. Wong]

 

 

Maybe another hound that happened by in the same direction? Or it could have been another photo from their *files* that they hoped no one would know the difference.

In a CTV video, a bus with that scheme is there too, so maybe it was stopped there while on its way towards Winnipeg.

[Michael Marriott]

The article in the Sun today said that there was another Greyhound bus close behind the one the attack took place on.

Yeah I saw school buses as well on the Canada.com site.

Wonder what that mystery Greyhound is then.

Well, I must say that the whole debate that sprang up on this thread about ipod usage; based on nothing more than early speculation, was rather interesting. Because, at a deep sub concious level, some of us probably want the victim to have been listening to his ipod too loud. That way, we can comfort ourselves into thinking that there was some motivation for the attack, that there was some reason, however flimsy or far fetched, for it. It is scary to see deep, base human nature revealed like this, and to face the fact that a human being could do something like this for no reason, with no provocation. You see it in newspapers all the time, where account of murder will usually mention that the victim was involved in the sex trade, or was a drug user or a member of a gang, allowing us to detach ourselves from the problem, and convince ourselves that it could never happen to us, that those people put themselves into a "high risk" situation. But when something like this, or the killing of a senior in a west end strip mall parking lot in Edmonton, occurs, where there is no reason or "justification" for the victim to have recieved what they did, it frightens us, because at a deep level we are unable to accept that something like this can happen for no reason. So, we try to rationlise an inrrational world.

Well just promise me you won't go chopping off people's head because of it.

[rocketdriver2019]

the victim was not tortured. He was a random guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. One thing, I would like to know, is if anyone attempted to stop him killer, or simply ran.

"Do unto others" is one philosphy I gave up on. It doesn't work, and in the end, you will not feel better about yourself. Taking someone's life because of their actions will do a number on your soul. Only a sociopath(George W. Bush for example), could ever take a life, and walk around with a straight face, or be satisfied.

You know, there would be less crime, if the damn Conservatives actually stopped following the disastrous US policy on crime. Minimum sentences, and harsher sentencing do NOT work. How about funding social programs, and actually HELPING the people who need it, instead of building private prisons?

I think a combination of both would be preferable. I agree with mandatory minimum sentences (that's probably the only thing I agree with the conservatives on), and I think it's ludicrous that we actually have "maximum" sentences. But at the same time I think this can only work to deter crime if adequate social programs are introduced in tandem.

As for torture... I could never inflict torture on anyone myself (I don't have the heart to do that) but you have to admit that at one time or another deep down you wished a gruesome serial killer would undergo the cruel punishment he deserved. As for the death penalty, I am dead set against that, but not because I think it inhumane... more because I think it's an easy way out for these criminals. They should be made to suffer for their crimes, not be put out of their misery.

Where I think we can agree on is our prisons are far too easy on criminals. Currently our murderers are sent to institutions where they are out of their cell a good portion of the day, they can watch TV, work out, earn a university degree, etc etc etc. These institutions are often preferable to the living conditions some criminals had in the first place, and can hardly be called prisons. This is too good for them, and to me is not an adequate punishment for their crimes.

Prison should be a place where no one would ever want to be. Prisoners should be kept in their cell at all times of the day... the only time they should be let out is for hard, grueling work. There should be no TV... although I might agree with giving them books. No lifting weights or basketball or any other leisure activities outside their cell. If they need exercise, that's what the hard, grueling work can be for. If they step out of line, I would fully condone physical beatings to rectify that (but to a reasonable degree... don't beat them to death, but tasering them or wacking them on the knees with a baton would be adequate). No visitors, but writing letters can be permitted. By the time their terms are up they should be scared to ever have to go back there. Rehabilitation? That can be a second stage of their sentence, after some hard time in an unpleasant place like I just described. Sort of a "Didn't like that? Well here's how to avoid going there again" kind of deal.

Prisons like this combined with adequate social programs that intercept people before they get there would, in my opinion, greatly reduce crime.

[Prevost1003]

That just had to happen when i was just going to edmonton by GRAYHOUND, on the very same route in a few weeks. Now im scared to catch the bus there but the plane is sooooo expensive!

Yeah, I am scared too! Beheadings happen on buses everyday! IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU!

There was a picture in the Edmonton Journal today:

It's not 1170, so probably the bus that picked the passengers up? Wrong caption I guess. I noticed on a news story a bus with the lights on and passengers were on it. I'm pretty sure no one really wanted to go back on the bus so soon after, so maybe this is the same one I saw.

They were picked up on school buses. There was a second bus behind 1170 that was headed the same direction. That is probably it.

[Hybrid0920]

Apparently (according to The Hamilton Spectator) when the police arrived, they witnessed the suspect consuming some of the victims flesh.

[Aztek985]

Apparently (according to The Hamilton Spectator) when the police arrived, they witnessed the suspect consuming some of the victims flesh.

That's already been pointed out ...

[Cogeno]

To all of you who are saying that you'll never take a Greyhound bus again (or any coach bus, or whatever), think about this:

When was the last time you've heard of someone getting stabbed repeatedly on a bus? If you have, then how does this story suddenly change your mind on riding coach buses? It's probably just as likely to happen to you walking down the street.

Might as well just lock yourself in your house, and even then, you have to worry about the people who may break in.

[PrevostH3-45]

That just had to happen when i was just going to edmonton by GRAYHOUND, on the very same route in a few weeks. Now im scared to catch the bus there but the plane is sooooo expensive!

Well I guess you don't have to worry because this occured on a GrEyhound coach.

[Hybrid0920]

You have a less chance of an attack on public transit, because there are people. You have more of a chance of being attacked outdooors, when no one is around. In Hamilton I was robbed about 7pm in the summer last year, took place downtown in front of Pizza Pizza. It was actually in the Hamilton Spec. and I yelled help, and people looked at me, and walked away. No one helped, and there were 3 guys on me. Surprisingly nothing was taken, I had my bike, money, which they saw and demanded, I just said no and put it in my pocket. Then I pull out my cell phone, and call 911, and one guys like "I should steal your phone." and then they were like screw it and walked away. They were caught 1 street away by police, plain idiots if you ask me. Only bad thing was my injuries, nothing physically taken from me. So you are safer on transit..Theres my point.

[captaintrolley]

I agree you are safer where there are people......but there were about 37 people on board that Greyhound, and it didn't help Tim McLean.

[railbus]

I agree you are safer where there are people......but there were about 37 people on board that Greyhound, and it didn't help Tim McLean.

Exactly right. Since this incident I am actually more nervous as I go about my life, because if I should ever become a victim I can clearly see that NO ONE will come to my aid. People will flee and leave me for dead.

[Prevost1003]

Only bad thing was my injuries, nothing physically taken from me.

HEHEH "physically... just mentally right?

[Orion V]

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_25449.aspx

Greyhound's follow-up to this incident.

[pccstreetcar4549]

i know greyhound had to do that for PR reasons and out of respect but, soooner or later greyhound will have to come up with a campaign to assure the public that these types of incident are incredibly rare. because right now there are people that are giving second thoughts to take greyhound and while the chances of a sudden dramatic ridership decrease is highly unlikely, they still have to deal with swaying people back onto the buses reassuring that its safe to to take the bus

[Dane]

Where I think we can agree on is our prisons are far too easy on criminals. Currently our murderers are sent to institutions where they are out of their cell a good portion of the day, they can watch TV, work out, earn a university degree, etc etc etc. These institutions are often preferable to the living conditions some criminals had in the first place, and can hardly be called prisons. This is too good for them, and to me is not an adequate punishment for their crimes.

I'll open by saying I have a semi-educated opinion as a Criminology Graduate Student from SFU;

- Arguably of the world's developed countries the US has the "harshest" prisons, and China as well if you tend to consider them developed. Their "harsh" prisons lead top the highest recidivism rates (people returning to jail) of any countries that are able to record data in the world. Why? There's a few reasons but mainly it can be attributed to:

a. tough prisons foster gang mentalities, and despite what you might hear on Global there are very very few true gangs in Canada

b. Tough prisons are hugely psychologically damaging meaning re-entry into the greater population whether it be civil of even lower level of incarterations becomes nearly impossible.

Tough prisons, as a result, lead to higher crime rates.

The three strike policy has also lead to countless social problems there. Tough sentences do NOT deter, it's pretty simple to see that.

Federal prisons, where all individuals convicted of manslaughter go, do not allow completion of University degrees at public cost.

Being in better conditions than home is often exactly what serious offenders need to not reoffend anymore. It's frustrating to hear people say they want individuals to simply rot in prison as the reality is offenders will almost always get out and will need to function in society. Stripping them of dignity os not a good step towards achieving this, and often the social conditions that greater society has put them in is the cause of the crime (at least indirectly). Back to your degree point, the strong correlation to living a crime free life is a higher education level, even if you have commited a crime prior to recieving higher education. No other variable speaks so loudly.

Also, manslaughter, although a very serious crime has almost the lowest recidivism rate of any. Arguably, and not so much for this thread, a more appropriate punishment for the average manslaughter (not the Greyhound one, but I don't think he'll be convicted) would be roughly 15 years - that's when most convicted first and second degree murderists generally have "come around." Remember a HUGE majority of murders in Canada are family members killing eachother, generally husband and wife. The media doesn't pick it up all that often because it's generally not that interesting.

Prison should be a place where no one would ever want to be. Prisoners should be kept in their cell at all times of the day... the only time they should be let out is for hard, grueling work. There should be no TV... although I might agree with giving them books. No lifting weights or basketball or any other leisure activities outside their cell. If they need exercise, that's what the hard, grueling work can be for. If they step out of line, I would fully condone physical beatings to rectify that (but to a reasonable degree... don't beat them to death, but tasering them or wacking them on the knees with a baton would be adequate). No visitors, but writing letters can be permitted. By the time their terms are up they should be scared to ever have to go back there. Rehabilitation? That can be a second stage of their sentence, after some hard time in an unpleasant place like I just described. Sort of a "Didn't like that? Well here's how to avoid going there again" kind of deal.

Awesome, so when they're at this second step we'll spend the first five years explaining why the state beet them and then move onto the counselling regarding the crime?

The simple fact of the matter is that rehab needs to start the day the individual eneters the criminal justice system. Waiting a few years doesn't really pan out, just think of any experiences you have. Generally no matter how excellent the counselling or programme is there is no way it will have the same effect 7 years later, which is the average time a first or second degree murderer in Canada waits for rehabilitation to start. Again just look to the US to see why tough sentances and jails do not work. Their crime rates is WAYYYY above ours, and the "dark figure of crime" appears to be lower in Canada although it's impossible to kow for sure (that is crime that never is dealt with by the CJS, it's measured in a few ways but most effectively by self report surveys of the general public and individuals involved in the correctional system). Why replicate a broken system?

The avoid going there again system would work if it was one or trwo days, that's it. Even in New York where they ran the Scared Straight programme is was found because of the length of the time in the penal institution (5 days) it actually became a netowrking device for the teens to commit more grandious crimes, rather than get scared of their surroundings.

Prisons like this combined with adequate social programs that intercept people before they get there would, in my opinion, greatly reduce crime.

Social programmes, and education, on their own, reduce crime.

---

All this said, the guy on the bus clearly has some sort of mental disorder, we need to doctor to tell us that. I don't think he'll be convicted because to be crazy enough to do what he did it's unlikely he can stand trial and may be found not criminally responsible because of mental disorder. If that happens the sentance is almost worse than jail because he'll go to a psychiatric ward and getting out is almost impossible. You also loose right to appeal.

Frankly, the last few days have been the safest to be on a Greyhound, just like when you fly a type of plane that had just crashed a few days before. The nature of Greyhound's business wouldn't allow security, and even if they had it I would imagine knives could get on.

Just some food for thought....

Also, for the post previous to the one I quoted:

Canada has no private prisons anymore. Ontario experimented with one and was unhappy with the results.

[captaintrolley]

Apologies beforehand. Slightly off topic and in Bad taste, but I thought it was funny. New Slogan for Greyhound "Ride with us, we're heads above the rest". From a lady at work who thought I should mention it.

[Prevost1003]

Apologies beforehand. Slightly off topic and in Bad taste, but I thought it was funny. New Slogan for Greyhound "Ride with us, we're heads above the rest". From a lady at work who thought I should mention it.

BAAAAAADDDD!

[Gregory]

Apologies beforehand. Slightly off topic and in Bad taste, but I thought it was funny. New Slogan for Greyhound "Ride with us, we're heads above the rest". From a lady at work who thought I should mention it.

Ummm yeah...me thinks they might want to change that slogan given what just happened.

[Hybrid0920]

HEHEH "physically... just mentally right?

LOL Can't take something that wasn't there to begin with.

[hl7534]

To all of you who are saying that you'll never take a Greyhound bus again (or any coach bus, or whatever), think about this:

When was the last time you've heard of someone getting stabbed repeatedly on a bus? If you have, then how does this story suddenly change your mind on riding coach buses? It's probably just as likely to happen to you walking down the street.

Might as well just lock yourself in your house, and even then, you have to worry about the people who may break in.

I thought that I made it clear that I'm not concerned about the likelihood of this sort of event happening in the future.

It's just that the story is so twisted that I think I won't be able to forget about it when I ride a Greyhound bus. It's instinctive.

[pccstreetcar4549]

while this incident was really shocking it wont stop me from riding a greyhound bus, i always have felt safe on greyhound buses

[TC60102N]

The "mystery" bus is 1143, I got a photo of it in Kitchener yesterday.