PRESTO - GTA Discussion

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

I've managed to search a more (almost) up close version on what the new TVMs for the PRESTO Card system looks like - this is from taken from the manufacturer's website (they were at a trade show recently).

ICYMI, the manufacturer of the next-generation TVMs is Sigma (an Italian-based company).

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

Earlier today, I was at the DCO (Durham College Oshawa) GO station after riding the 96 from Ajax to Oshawa (please don't ask me why) and to my surprise - one of the newer TVMs that I was telling you folks about are now in service - but at least one of them.

I haven't tried out the new TVMs yet (I was planning to test to reload my PRESTO Card - but the option is greyed out, sadly) but the top of the screen denotes some advertising (from what I had remembered).

Upon reading the info from the GO Transit website regarding the types of the PRESTO Devices, this is what I had found that caught my eye:

Starting August 24, 2023, you’ll start to see a new, upgraded generation of TVMs at select GO stations. The new TVMs will replace the existing devices in phases, and will look different and offer several new, accessible features: 

 

More PRESTO card options, including the ability to purchase PRESTO cards from all machines, load a card, set a GO default trip, and change the language option to English or French. 

The ability to purchase both GO Transit and UP Express paper tickets from all TVMs. 

Accessibility enhancements for a better customer experience, including toe clearance for customers using mobility devices, a larger screen with high contrast display, high contrast and braille labels and an enhanced accessibility mode with audio output that enables control of the TVM using the PIN pad.  

The new devices will not sell braille PRESTO cards. Customers who need a braille card can reach out to the PRESTO Contact Centre, visit Shoppers Drug Mart / Loblaws or GO Transit counters, or visit the PRESTO card website.

So far from my observations, the one at the GO station mentioned has the new TVM.

[GTAmissions1]

2 hours ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

Earlier today, I was at the DCO (Durham College Oshawa) GO station after riding the 96 from Ajax to Oshawa (please don't ask me why) and to my surprise - one of the newer TVMs that I was telling you folks about are now in service - but at least one of them.

I haven't tried out the new TVMs yet (I was planning to test to reload my PRESTO Card - but the option is greyed out, sadly) but the top of the screen denotes some advertising (from what I had remembered).

Upon reading the info from the GO Transit website regarding the types of the PRESTO Devices, this is what I had found that caught my eye:

Starting August 24, 2023, you’ll start to see a new, upgraded generation of TVMs at select GO stations. The new TVMs will replace the existing devices in phases, and will look different and offer several new, accessible features: 

More PRESTO card options, including the ability to purchase PRESTO cards from all machines, load a card, set a GO default trip, and change the language option to English or French. 

The ability to purchase both GO Transit and UP Express paper tickets from all TVMs. 

Accessibility enhancements for a better customer experience, including toe clearance for customers using mobility devices, a larger screen with high contrast display, high contrast and braille labels and an enhanced accessibility mode with audio output that enables control of the TVM using the PIN pad.  

The new devices will not sell braille PRESTO cards. Customers who need a braille card can reach out to the PRESTO Contact Centre, visit Shoppers Drug Mart / Loblaws or GO Transit counters, or visit the PRESTO card website.

So far from my observations, the one at the GO station mentioned has the new TVM.

What do the new ticket vending machines look like? Is it the same colour as the previous ones?

The previous generation of ticket machines are due for replacement and factoring the costs, better to purchase new ones and retire the previous generation machines. Especially with the need to modernize and adapt to those who don't have internet connectivity or prefer to setup at a machine. 

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

38 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

What do the new ticket vending machines look like? Is it the same colour as the previous ones?

The previous generation of ticket machines are due for replacement and factoring the costs, better to purchase new ones and retire the previous generation machines. Especially with the need to modernize and adapt to those who don't have internet connectivity or prefer to setup at a machine. 

The new machines are black and they improved the area in which you put your PRESTO Card to load on in a little basket-like crevice. I wasn't able to get a full close-up picture of the new TVM during my sightings, unfortunately.

As I had stated in my last postings, the new TVMs will be capable of accepting higher demoninations of bills (i.e. $50CDN or $100CDN), improved accesibility features and as always, you can still buy and reload PRESTO Cards.

So far, the sighting of the new TVM at Durham College Oshawa GO is one example.

 

Works Cited:
Llewellyn, M. (Host), 2022, June 9, "Episode 21 - Top 5 reasons customers get in touch with GO Transit customer service". In Between The Lines. Metrolinx.

"Sigma TVMs will also arrive in Canada." Sigma S.p.A., https://www.sigmaspa.com/en/news-en/le-tvms-sigma-arriveranno-anche-in-canada/. Accessed 6 Dec 2022.

[GTAmissions1]

6 minutes ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

The new machines are black and they improved the area in which you put your PRESTO Card to load on in a little basket-like crevice. I wasn't able to get a full close-up picture of the new TVM during my sightings, unfortunately.

As I had stated in my last postings, the new TVMs will be capable of accepting higher demoninations of bills (i.e. $50CDN or $100CDN), improved accesibility features and as always, you can still buy and reload PRESTO Cards.

So far, the sighting of the new TVM at Durham College Oshawa GO is one example.

Works Cited:
Llewellyn, M. (Host), 2022, June 9, "Episode 21 - Top 5 reasons customers get in touch with GO Transit customer service". In Between The Lines. Metrolinx.

"Sigma TVMs will also arrive in Canada." Sigma S.p.A., https://www.sigmaspa.com/en/news-en/le-tvms-sigma-arriveranno-anche-in-canada/. Accessed 6 Dec 2022.

Didn't think that they would have the capability of accepting higher denomination bills. Since I know the current ticket machines are limited to accepting $20 denomination bills due to the risk of draining the change float too quickly from higher denomination bills. Especially if the station only has one ticket vending machine. 

At the same time, it is handy to load a Presto card with larger value. Considering how bank machines do dispense a variety of denomination bills beyond $20 and $50 depending on what bills the bank machine is stocked with. 

[MCIBUS]

Question/

Can I use my Presto Card on the TTC Buses/Subway if my Prestro card is geared towards OC Transpo?(Ottawa) I know my monthly pass won't work but if I have my monthly pass on it, along with cash, will the Presto readers on the TTC or any other system in the GTA-GO, Mississauga, Scarbourgh, etc will the readers be able to detect the cash with out the pass interfering?

[GTAmissions1]

50 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

Question/

Can I use my Presto Card on the TTC Buses/Subway if my Prestro card is geared towards OC Transpo?(Ottawa) I know my monthly pass won't work but if I have my monthly pass on it, along with cash, will the Presto readers on the TTC or any other system in the GTA-GO, Mississauga, Scarbourgh, etc will the readers be able to detect the cash with out the pass interfering?

You can use your Presto card on-board TTC streetcars and buses along with station entrances. This is along with other agencies that accept the Presto card in GTHA.

When you tap, it will deduct the e-purse which would be the value loaded onto your card. Your monthly pass from Ottawa will have no impact on your ability to pay fare since it is a separate system. 

[MCIBUS]

Thanks 

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

I've been using one of my credit cards the other day (I have a prepaid MasterCard - it was linked to my mobile wallet; I have an Android-based phone. Another reason is that one card that I have (currently at the time of writing) offers a promo that allows you to earn a certain amount of cash back for using that prepaid credit card) and used it on the GO bus from Ajax to Oshawa.  My experience was flawless!

Aside from that, over the course of the eve of the Labour Day long weekend (well before the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) closes for the season) - I made two (unecessary) phone calls to both GO Transit and the UP Express customer care lines regarding something that you may find startling: inquruing about the acceptance of Internationally-issued contactless credit cards and mobile wallets (i.e. Apple Pay, Google Wallet, Samsung Pay, FitBit Pay, Garmin Pay) linked to those.

Both the agents I spoke to advised me that they had experience and cases in which International-issued contactless credit cards and mobile wallets linked to those - were used successfully with little or no issues.

[nfitz]

How is that startling? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something @FutureHeartsJunkie

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

56 minutes ago, nfitz said:

How is that startling? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something @FutureHeartsJunkie

The reason that I ended up calling the customer care line for UP and GO - is simply this: a second opinion.

In the end, they were able to address my concerns.

[Mark Walton]

21 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

You can use your Presto card on-board TTC streetcars and buses along with station entrances. This is along with other agencies that accept the Presto card in GTHA.

When you tap, it will deduct the e-purse which would be the value loaded onto your card. Your monthly pass from Ottawa will have no impact on your ability to pay fare since it is a separate system. 

I've used mine on TTC, GO, and YRT on visits to the Big T. For a day's "power cruising" that's entirely on TTC, I buy a day pass on a Presto ticket from a fare vending machine, usually at Union Station.

[Oc4526]

22 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

You can use your Presto card on-board TTC streetcars and buses along with station entrances. This is along with other agencies that accept the Presto card in GTHA.

When you tap, it will deduct the e-purse which would be the value loaded onto your card. Your monthly pass from Ottawa will have no impact on your ability to pay fare since it is a separate system. 

You can also reload it at any of the Participating Shoppers in Toronto or the copious amount of TVM's throughout the GTHA cc @MCIBUS

[Gil]

On 9/2/2023 at 12:19 AM, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

The new machines are black and they improved the area in which you put your PRESTO Card to load on in a little basket-like crevice. I wasn't able to get a full close-up picture of the new TVM during my sightings, unfortunately.

As I had stated in my last postings, the new TVMs will be capable of accepting higher demoninations of bills (i.e. $50CDN or $100CDN), improved accesibility features and as always, you can still buy and reload PRESTO Cards.

So far, the sighting of the new TVM at Durham College Oshawa GO is one example.

 

Works Cited:
Llewellyn, M. (Host), 2022, June 9, "Episode 21 - Top 5 reasons customers get in touch with GO Transit customer service". In Between The Lines. Metrolinx.

"Sigma TVMs will also arrive in Canada." Sigma S.p.A., https://www.sigmaspa.com/en/news-en/le-tvms-sigma-arriveranno-anche-in-canada/. Accessed 6 Dec 2022.

Here's a photo of one in the wild at the Finch Regional Terminal with 2 of the variable messages on the screen above. (Apologies as they seem to be uploading sideways again)

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

5 hours ago, Gil said:

Here's a photo of one in the wild at the Finch Regional Terminal with 2 of the variable messages on the screen above. (Apologies as they seem to be uploading sideways again)

The machines are not bad - they remind me of seeing a few pictures (on the internet) of a similar apperance from one of a train operating companies in the United Kingdom and some from Italy (don't know why Metrolinx decided to go with some "Italian Design and Engineering").

Those new machines that you showed to me - are gradually replacing the current ones made by Parkeon (don't know if they still exist) - aside from the modifications made to the TVMs over the years (new PIN Pads, EMV readers and contactless payment readers were added in the mid-2010s).

Unfortunately, I don't have the answers regarding the technical information (plus aspects) of the current TVMs that GO (and UP Express) currently have right now (and the next generation ones too).

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

During my visit to Union Station in Toronto (yesterday and today), some of the newer Ticket Vending Machines (TVMs) manufacturered by Sigma have started to appear in more places within the station. 

Aside from that, the UX (User Experience, or GUI (Graphical User Interface) if you're over 30 or 40) is very different.

[Bus_Medic]

12 hours ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

Aside from that, the UX (User Experience, or GUI (Graphical User Interface) if you're over 30 or 40) is very 

On weekends my side gig is interpreting cave paintings for pretentious youth.

[Ed T.]

I am curious about the expiry time after a Presto tap. I think it's something like a three hour window, the machine says.

What happens if I tap on, take GO to somewhere, don't tap off, and then return to my starting point within the expiry time and then tap off?

Of course fare inspectors might catch me partway....

[Gil]

9 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I am curious about the expiry time after a Presto tap. I think it's something like a three hour window, the machine says.

What happens if I tap on, take GO to somewhere, don't tap off, and then return to my starting point within the expiry time and then tap off?

Of course fare inspectors might catch me partway....

I've missed my stop on a GO Train (Lakeshore West) and hopped on a train to double back when a fare inspection took place.  I explained my situation, having tapped on at Union but heading eastbound  and they let me go without incident. 

If you did tap off and then began (and completed I think) the trip before the 3-hour window closes the return trip is half off.  If you don't tap off at the other end and just tap off at your origin point I'm not sure what would happen.  You could just hit "Cancel Tap-On" on the reader and have the initial $3.70 refunded (provided you don't have a default trip set).  Of course if you don't make it within the 3-hour window, you'll be charged the maximum distance.  I'm not sure what that would be, Barrie, Niagara Falls, Kitchener or Oshawa if starting from Union!

[GTAmissions1]

58 minutes ago, Gil said:

I've missed my stop on a GO Train (Lakeshore West) and hopped on a train to double back when a fare inspection took place.  I explained my situation, having tapped on at Union but heading eastbound  and they let me go without incident. 

If you did tap off and then began (and completed I think) the trip before the 3-hour window closes the return trip is half off.  If you don't tap off at the other end and just tap off at your origin point I'm not sure what would happen.  You could just hit "Cancel Tap-On" on the reader and have the initial $3.70 refunded (provided you don't have a default trip set).  Of course if you don't make it within the 3-hour window, you'll be charged the maximum distance.  I'm not sure what that would be, Barrie, Niagara Falls, Kitchener or Oshawa if starting from Union!

From Union, it would charge the furthest distance which would be Kitchener regardless of which line you were boarding since all train lines terminate at Union Station. 

Too many configurations to note down, attached a link for reference from other stations. 

https://www.gotransit.com/en/ways-to-pay/many-ways-to-pay-using-presto/forgot-to-tap-off

You only have 45 minutes to cancel the tap-on which it must be the same payment device. In the event such as a train is cancelled, it will refund your payment. 

[Ed T.]

To be clear, if I tap on at Station X, ride to Station Y, then ride back to Station X, and only then tap off, within the three hour time window, I'd still be charged for a trip to Kitchener?

I get that someone might tap on, but just miss the train and have to wait for the next one, hence a grace period. But three hours seems excessive for that. On the other hand, I would assume that there are legit one-way trips on GO that would take more than three hours between tap on and tap off, so three hours doesn't make that much sense as "you must tap off before three hours are up" might not work out. (TTC "free 2 hour transfer" has the same potential issue, but I htink we understand how it works.)

And I don't think I've ever seen the "half price return trip" thing, although I now get a discounted fare anyway.

[Gil]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:36 AM, Ed T. said:

To be clear, if I tap on at Station X, ride to Station Y, then ride back to Station X, and only then tap off, within the three hour time window, I'd still be charged for a trip to Kitchener?

I get that someone might tap on, but just miss the train and have to wait for the next one, hence a grace period. But three hours seems excessive for that. On the other hand, I would assume that there are legit one-way trips on GO that would take more than three hours between tap on and tap off, so three hours doesn't make that much sense as "you must tap off before three hours are up" might not work out. (TTC "free 2 hour transfer" has the same potential issue, but I htink we understand how it works.)

And I don't think I've ever seen the "half price return trip" thing, although I now get a discounted fare anyway.

The three hour window also works for connecting with 905 transit agencies which have a co-fare agreement with GO Transit.  You are granted free access onto those agencies within the 3 hours from initial tap on with GO Transit.  Going the other way, as long as you tap onto GO Transit before your initial tap window has expired your fare will be credited back to you.

As for the half price return trip, there are a bunch of fare loopholes that I noticed when GO Transit had restructured the 21 MILTON GO Bus route.  Transferring from a bus onto a train gets me a $1.01 rebate, while a train to bus transfer gets me as far as the next zone without incurring an additional fare.  Case in point boarding the 21C from Square One to Union via Port Credit will cost me $5.01, whereas if I were to take MiWay for the portion down Hurontario St. I'd be charged only the fare from Port Credit to Union which is $6.02.  The reverse trip is trickier as Square One is a separate fare zone from Cooksville and Port Credit, but is the same fare, however if you take the train to Kipling (which costs $4.76) and you transfer to the 29 GUELPH/MISSISSAUGA GO Bus your ride to any of the stops up to Square One will not cost you any more.  I think the transfer is part of the "half price return trip" which I have used before for a quick trip to Yorkdale for some Christmas shopping.

Also in other news reported by Global News Toronto, the Province will implement a TTC-GO Transit co-fare early next year.  The Province made no mention of it when they announced their financial update/mini-budget last week and no firm date has been announced.  I wonder if it's part of the same co-fare agreement mentioned in the YRT thread that will also be extended to MiWay as part of the the TTC's pilot project with both agencies?  It would effectively allow free transfers within the GTHA within the appropriate transfer window. 

[GTAmissions1]

Via Reddit: Presto on Google Wallet available November 14th. With other platforms coming soon. 

 

Final comments:

It does save the hassle of trying to obtain a replacement physical card or finding it especially with the cost of replacement cards and the transfer process. 

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

55 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Via Reddit: Presto on Google Wallet available November 14th. With other platforms coming soon. 

 

Final comments:

It does save the hassle of trying to obtain a replacement physical card or finding it especially with the cost of replacement cards and the transfer process. 

What remains to be seen - is what PRESTO Card design will be when I added my physical card towards my Pixel 6 Pro (yes, it runs on Android)...

 

I have the Ottawa variant of the PRESTO Card and my concern is that the design will be different when I add the card to my mobile wallet ..

[littlewill1166]

16 hours ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

What remains to be seen - is what PRESTO Card design will be when I added my physical card towards my Pixel 6 Pro (yes, it runs on Android)...

 

I have the Ottawa variant of the PRESTO Card and my concern is that the design will be different when I add the card to my mobile wallet ..

Barring any last-minute changes, it's going to look something like this.