TTC GM Fleet Reminiscing

[Orion VI]

4 minutes ago, 8058 said:

Once the first or second Fishbowl is finished restoration, which bus division will store them?  I'm thinking about Mount Dennis or McNicoll might store them.

I think they will be stored at Hillcrest division. They are being restored there, and will be stored there for special uses. 

 

I am pretty sure about this, as if I remember back at the most recent Hillcrest open house, a sign said on 2252 that it would be kept there until further notice after completion.   

[TTCNLFBT]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:26 AM, ttc9432 said:

I think they will be stored at Hillcrest division. They are being restored there, and will be stored there for special uses. 

 

I am pretty sure about this, as if I remember back at the most recent Hillcrest open house, a sign said on 2252 that it would be kept there until further notice after completion.   

I didn't attend the last Hillcrest (2016) tour but when I check out the videos and photos of 2252 there's is no sign saying "Be kept there until further notice after completion".  Can you provide a photo of this sign?

[Chris.A]

One thing I don't like is the fact that TTC is retiring half their Orion VII fleet (NG hybrids included!) That makes no sense to me. The oldest of these are what, 14-15 years old?

[Tom1122]

1 minute ago, Chris.A said:

One thing I don't like is the fact that TTC is retiring half their Orion VII fleet (NG hybrids included!) That makes no sense to me. The oldest of these are what, 14-15 years old?

Wrong thread.

[Chris.A]

1 minute ago, Tom1122 said:

Wrong thread.

Not really, as it kinda relates to this. Seeing that the last of the GM New Looks retired earlier in the decade, it doesn't make any sense as to why TTC is retiring the Orion VII family so soon.

[T3G]

23 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

Not really, as it kinda relates to this. Seeing that the last of the GM New Looks retired earlier in the decade, it doesn't make any sense as to why TTC is retiring the Orion VII family so soon.

The New Looks lasted as long as they did because the commission was forced to make them last that long, and rebuilt them multiple times to facilitate their nearly 30 year lifespan. A vanilla bus is only good for about 14-18 years (unless it sees really light use, like the Orions in Sarnia). There are other factors in the retirement of the Orions, namely in the request from the government to retire the S50EGR equipped ones due to emmissions concerns, and the low reliability of the hybrids.

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, Chris.A said:

Not really, as it kinda relates to this. Seeing that the last of the GM New Looks retired earlier in the decade, it doesn't make any sense as to why TTC is retiring the Orion VII family so soon.

The GM rebuild program was not undertaken by choice. The Provincial government of the day (mid to late 1990s) forced them to take austerity measures and make the most of the resources they had at their disposal.

[Chris.A]

56 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

The New Looks lasted as long as they did because the commission was forced to make them last that long, and rebuilt them multiple times to facilitate their nearly 30 year lifespan. A vanilla bus is only good for about 14-18 years (unless it sees really light use, like the Orions in Sarnia). There are other factors in the retirement of the Orions, namely in the request from the government to retire the S50EGR equipped ones due to emmissions concerns, and the low reliability of the hybrids.

That is so stupid. The EGR version is suppose to be a cleaner version of the classic DD50 series engine.

[Bus_Medic]

7 hours ago, Chris.A said:

That is so stupid. The EGR version is suppose to be a cleaner version of the classic DD50 series engine.

And in real life application, has proven otherwise. Especially concerning particulate matter.

Exhaut gas recirculation reduces oxides of nitrogen at the expense of volumetric efficiency...so more more fuel is burnt for the same amount of work, therefore greater carbon monoxide/dioxide emissions. Compound that with the short lifespan of the variable geometry turbos, and you got yourself a very expensive boat anchor.

[Chris.A]

1 minute ago, Bus_Medic said:

And in real life application, has proven otherwise. Especially concerning particulate matter.

Buses these days have no personality. Hate this era.

[Bus_Medic]

1 minute ago, Chris.A said:

Buses these days have no personality. Hate this era.

Yep. Getting old sucks.

[TTC T6H-5307N 2252]

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

The New Looks lasted as long as they did because the commission was forced to make them last that long, and rebuilt them multiple times to facilitate their nearly 30 year lifespan. A vanilla bus is only good for about 14-18 years (unless it sees really light use, like the Orions in Sarnia). There are other factors in the retirement of the Orions, namely in the request from the government to retire the S50EGR equipped ones due to emmissions concerns, and the low reliability of the hybrids.

Keep in mind, Calgary kept the New looks till 2013 and ran them at 30-31 years 

[Ed T.]

4 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Buses these days have no personality. Hate this era.

For me, the 8520-8985 New Looks were all of a sameness--that's over four hundred meh buses. The only distinctive think I can think of are the black inside front unit numbers on some 8800s. The rebuilds didn't seem to add much to their character beyond some places where the fixes looked mickey-mouse to me.

If I have to ride a 6V71 bus from TTC's history, make it an 8400 series D901. Or for real nostalgia, a TDH-5301, say from the 3100 series that still showed up occasionally in 1980.

[Chris.A]

54 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

For me, the 8520-8985 New Looks were all of a sameness--that's over four hundred meh buses. The only distinctive think I can think of are the black inside front unit numbers on some 8800s. The rebuilds didn't seem to add much to their character beyond some places where the fixes looked mickey-mouse to me.

If I have to ride a 6V71 bus from TTC's history, make it an 8400 series D901. Or for real nostalgia, a TDH-5301, say from the 3100 series that still showed up occasionally in 1980.

You see, no offense, but that's WAYY before my time. I grew up in the 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s (or as I like to call this decade, the early two thousand teens). I grew up with DD50/G/EGR/G-EGR series powered buses and Cummins L10G powered buses.

[T3G]

In 10 years' time, they'll be saying about the Novas and Xcelsiors what you're saying about the S50 powered buses of today.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I wish I'd appreciated the Orions more when I was younger. You never know what bus of today you'll find yourself nostalgic for before long.

[Bus_Medic]

I’d kill for a cherry (condition, not the charter company) MC-9.

[Doppelkupplung]

I 101% agree with all of that. I’d keep hearing all the older members here banging on about fishbowls and DD 6Vs and what not and wonder what they’re on about. Despite me being 19 I now know what it feels like, and the ISM is the prime example. You long for what you’ve ridden in your past, and what was normal then, and only once it’s gone from your life do you realize how much you miss it. 

[Downsview 108]

15 hours ago, Chris.A said:

One thing I don't like is the fact that TTC is retiring half their Orion VII fleet (NG hybrids included!) That makes no sense to me. The oldest of these are what, 14-15 years old?

Bus life is about 12 years (???). The magicians at the shop keep them going longer. 

14 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Buses these days have no personality. Hate this era.

If you're expecting a personality in a hunk of rubber, plastic and metal, you need to find a new brown acid dealer.

9 hours ago, Ed T. said:

For me, the 8520-8985 New Looks were all of a sameness--that's over four hundred meh buses. The only distinctive think I can think of are the black inside front unit numbers on some 8800s. The rebuilds didn't seem to add much to their character beyond some places where the fixes looked mickey-mouse to me.

If I have to ride a 6V71 bus from TTC's history, make it an 8400 series D901. Or for real nostalgia, a TDH-5301, say from the 3100 series that still showed up occasionally in 1980.

I hated New Looks until the late 90s. LOL

Those old 81 D901s were so much on their last legs in 1999 it's a wonder the wheels didn't fall off on that last ride.

My personal choice would be a D700. The only model I was alive for that I didn't ride (barring test buses).

8 hours ago, Chris.A said:

You see, no offense, but that's WAYY before my time. I grew up in the 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s (or as I like to call this decade, the early two thousand teens). I grew up with DD50/G/EGR/G-EGR series powered buses and Cummins L10G powered buses.

Trust me. You will miss the plastic buses when they're gone. LOL

[Xtrazsteve]

I kinda miss the D40s. They didn't rattle as much as the fishbowls did on a bumpy road. Buses with side sliding windows and no stop announcements were awesome back in the 90s. No need to hear this robo voice. 

[Doppelkupplung]

2 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

I kinda miss the D40s. They didn't rattle as much as the fishbowls did on a bumpy road. Buses with side sliding windows and no stop announcements were awesome back in the 90s. No need to hear this robo voice. 

Throwback to when the driver would call out the stops, even I was there for the end of that era. 

[T3G]

Personally if I had to choose one vintage vehicle to be fully restored and operational, I would go further back and say that I'd love to see an operational condition A12 class PCC. Those (along with the ex-Kansas City A14s) always struck me as having the most attractive windshield style of any PCC, and the fact that both 4684 at Halton County and one ex-Philly nee Kansas City ones in Maine are both in desolate condition is a crying shame. Can't speak to the one at Seashore, but 4684 has sunk onto its trucks and will never run again.

I believe there is an ex Kansas City car on display outside that city's Union station, but that's a bit out of the way.

Anyways, I was going back through the thread and noticed all my photos that I shared in here have dead links from the Majhost days, so I guess now's as good a time as any to dump some of my photos in here.

The legend #2017 at York Mills station while operating on route 95 in March 2009.

Toronto Transit Commission 2017 - 02 by Andrew P., on Flickr
Toronto Transit Commission 2017 - 03 by Andrew P., on Flickr

#2252 undergoing restoration in September 2016.

Toronto Transit Commission 2252 - 07 by Andrew P., on Flickr

#2271 at York Mills station while operating on the 78 in February 2009.

Toronto Transit Commission 2271 - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr

One of my earliest GM photographs, #2279 at Scarborough Town Centre, in service on the 169 Huntingwood, September 2008.

Toronto Transit Commission 2279 - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr

2316 among the colours, somewhere in Scarborough on the TTS charter on November 5, 2011. I have no idea where this photo actually was taken, so if anyone has the list of photo stops for that charter, I'd appreciate it.

Toronto Transit Commission 2316 - 23 by Andrew P., on Flickr

Posing with bus #2326 at Concorde Place on that same charter.

Toronto Transit Commission 2316 - 49 by Andrew P., on Flickr

Parts bus #2345 at Mount Dennis, in January 2012.

Toronto Transit Commission 2345 - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr

#2435 southbound on Bay at Harbour, September 2009.

Toronto Transit Commission 2435 - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr

The sun sets on an assortment of dead GMs at the Mount Dennis lot, January 2012.

Toronto Transit Commission GM buses - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr
Toronto Transit Commission GM buses - 04 by Andrew P., on Flickr

A slightly shabby #2794 approaches Meadowvale on Ellesmere in February 2009.

Toronto Transit Commission 2794 - 01 by Andrew P., on Flickr

[TTCNLFBT]

I believe the photo stop for 2316 photo is along the 131E route.  Not sure the location is.

[MK78]

16 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. I wish I'd appreciated the Orions more when I was younger. You never know what bus of today you'll find yourself nostalgic for before long.

I have a fondness for the early 90's Orion V's, the diesel ones. I remember taking them on the 23 Dawes to Main station on my way school... They had air conditioning, not sure if these were the first on the TTC back then, but it was awesome. LOL.

[Bus_Medic]

There were a handful of late ‘70s D800s with A/C that were pressed into sightseeing duty in the summertime, but the first order to really use it en masse was the D40-90 order with the L10 engines. The compressor and clutch pulley were in a spot prone to road debris (engine being in a transverse configuration) so consequently they were de activated and removed, probably about the time the ZF transmissions were switched to rebuilt used V730s harvested from scrap gms. That was a few years before I came along, so that’s an inference on my part.

[TTC T6H-5307N 2252]

I heard the Fishbowls were scrapped in Guelph