Rob Ford's Transportation Plan

[pccstreetcar4549]

i know, he said in his own plan "replace streetcars with clean buses" nice try rob! on the other hand, im glad he backtracked on that promise but it also shows you cant trust anything politician says

[D. DeLarge]

Rob Ford would surely jump for joy at this.

[skyfirenet]

Rob Ford would surely jump for joy at this.

That is until he sees the bill for modifying the bridges along the rail corridors to handle it.

Still, a future streetcar version of that might be a good fit for the downtown lines as a replacement for the current streetcar order when they need replacement in thirty years. This is of course assuming that you can resolve all clearance issues and design it to handle the current curves in the system.

[torontottc7]

That is until he sees the bill for modifying the bridges along the rail corridors to handle it.

Still, a future streetcar version of that might be a good fit for the downtown lines as a replacement for the current streetcar order when they need replacement in thirty years. This is of course assuming that you can resolve all clearance issues and design it to handle the current curves in the system.

not going to happen, since MTO will be in all arms, and the bus has to be exclusively Canadian built.

Also, there will have to be stations with tall as hell roofs, and it can't be used for underground terminals such as Lawrence stn, unless TTC is ready to foot the bill on making the roadway much deeper, and suicide barrier so no one falls onto the road and that is one hellova jump

[Mr. Engineer]

By the time the city were to spend the money to accomodate those things, they might as well build subways....LOL.

[D. DeLarge]

Apparently the streetcars are safe. According to Breakfast Television this morning Rob Ford said he has no plans on getting rid of the streetcars, and that this was just a rumour propagated by his opponents.

So I guess HIS transportation platform on HIS website was written by his opponents then. Can't wait to see what else he lied about. I hope his entire platform was propagated by his opponents because I agree with almost none of it.

Flip-flopping Ford.

A friend told me his theory about it:

"Someone told him the new ones are low floor, so all's good".

[buschic]

You won't be able to figure out your way from the buses to the Bloor Line without riding the Yonge Line first.

Agreed.

Funny, the odd one out in terms of PPP customer service is Miller.

lol, yeah, I meant the YUS, was VERY tired when I wrote that!

[rocketdriver2019]

Flip-flopping Ford.

A friend told me his theory about it:

"Someone told him the new ones are low floor, so all's good".

Yeah he probably warmed up to the idea now that he sees he wouldn't have to climb steps to get on one.

[TheAverageJoe]

Yeah he probably warmed up to the idea now that he sees he wouldn't have to climb steps to get on one.

rofl poor old ford

[rider]

I would not be surprised to see Ford ask the province to upload the TTC to Metrolinx. It would take a huge chunk out of the city budget, and it would give the province the ability to do what it wants and integrate the TTC fully into GO, Presto, etc.

[D. DeLarge]

I would not be surprised to see Ford ask the province to upload the TTC to Metrolinx. It would take a huge chunk out of the city budget, and it would give the province the ability to do what it wants and integrate the TTC fully into GO, Presto, etc.

Yeah, but if Metrolinx decides to put LRT's everywhere he'll be complaining about congestion again.

[torontottc7]

Yeah, but if Metrolinx decides to put LRT's everywhere he'll be complaining about congestion again.

If Ford is smart enough, he could put Metrolinx on a contract for X amount of years, but that aside, the province would try to do another SRT , since the technology needs to be sold in other places than Vancouver.

[shambala]

I would not be surprised to see Ford ask the province to upload the TTC to Metrolinx. It would take a huge chunk out of the city budget, and it would give the province the ability to do what it wants and integrate the TTC fully into GO, Presto, etc.

I'm afraid that's exactly what he's thinking. Only question is, why would the province in their right mind want to assume that giant headache?

[smallspy]

...the province would try to do another SRT , since the technology needs to be sold in other places than Vancouver.

What are you talking about exactly?

Dan

[38 Highland Creek]

What are you talking about exactly?

Dan

torontottc7 was talking about having the trains go driverless like the SkyTrains in Vancouver and the Detroit People Mover. The people behind the computers are doing the driving as if they're engineers.

[Orion VIII]

I would not be surprised to see Ford ask the province to upload the TTC to Metrolinx. It would take a huge chunk out of the city budget, and it would give the province the ability to do what it wants and integrate the TTC fully into GO, Presto, etc.

While I see provincial control more feasible for transit, if it were to happen, I don't believe Ford would be the change's proponent. It would give outsiders of the city too much control of the system, and I don't think he's about to give up control.

[smallspy]

torontottc7 was talking about having the trains go driverless like the SkyTrains in Vancouver and the Detroit People Mover.

I can see that. How does the Province of Ontario enter into the equation though?

Dan

[torontottc7]

I can see that. How does the Province of Ontario enter into the equation though?

Dan

The province of Ontario has advertised the ICTS technology to the TTC in the 70s? And where the province fits into the equation is that Bombardier needs their tech sold, so with good amount of consideration, Bombardier could tell the province that ICTS technology is much more suited for transit city, followed by explanations such as ATC giving trains giving 45 seconds headways with little to no wasted platform space.

[M. Parsons]

The province of Ontario has advertised the ICTS technology to the TTC in the 70s? And where the province fits into the equation is that Bombardier needs their tech sold, so with good amount of consideration, Bombardier could tell the province that ICTS technology is much more suited for transit city, followed by explanations such as ATC giving trains giving 45 seconds headways with little to no wasted platform space.

WTF.

I don't tihnk ATC works too well with grade crossings.

[doug_oak]

The province of Ontario has advertised the ICTS technology to the TTC in the 70s? And where the province fits into the equation is that Bombardier needs their tech sold, so with good amount of consideration, Bombardier could tell the province that ICTS technology is much more suited for transit city, followed by explanations such as ATC giving trains giving 45 seconds headways with little to no wasted platform space.

Seems to me that we are way past the point where ICTS has any relevance to Toronto:

(1) It is more expensive to build on a per KM basis than conventional light rail and I suspect that the vehicles are more expensive (per passenger carried per hour) even with the potential for closer headways. None of the Transit City lines would require anything close to 45 second headways in any case.

(2) There has been a decision taken over the recent past, with broad concurrence, that it would not be used for Eglinton Crosstown and that the SRT would be converted to LRT to standardize all light rail in Scarborough.

(3) Why would Bombardier be showcasing ICTS at this point, given #2 above and given that they already have in hand the initial order for the LRT vehicles (183, IIRC) to be used for Transit City, with the prospect for follow on orders that should be very profitable for them?

Dan, any comment?

[smallspy]

The province of Ontario has advertised the ICTS technology to the TTC in the 70s? And where the province fits into the equation is that Bombardier needs their tech sold, so with good amount of consideration, Bombardier could tell the province that ICTS technology is much more suited for transit city, followed by explanations such as ATC giving trains giving 45 seconds headways with little to no wasted platform space.

. , ! " ' ? : ; <-This is punctuation. Use it. It makes your sentence(s) easier to read.

Second, the Province ended its direct involvement with the ICTS/ART technology when they sold off UDTC in the late 1980s.

As for Bombardier "telling the province that ICTS technology is much more suited for transit city(sic)", sure, anything is possible. But right now Metrolinx and the City seem to be in agreement that LRT is the way to go, and not ICTS/ART.

Dan

[torontottc7]

#1 I agree, but still, Bombardier is a company nontheless, so they could convince Toronto that ICTS is better for Eglinton crosstown since it would have *more* capacity, and that LRTs are just *Glorified Streetcars* thus, even creating more people against LRTs on Transit City. How could they do this? They would try to have a concept design of the Mark III train cars and then showcase it to the public making it look and sound like Toronto "needs" it for "decent service" on Eglinton, but if it probably fails, Bombardier could possibly keep it in mind once the Skytrain Fleet ages and requires replacement.

#2 refer to #1 that Bombardier could ask the public "Do you want something nice, sleek, and new tech, or do you want something that has been used for a long time and proven not the best tech"

#3 With the cost of ICTS trains high, Bombardier "could" probably outweigh the cancellation order with the new trains, but that chance is so low.

[smallspy]

#1 I agree, but still, Bombardier is a company nontheless, so they could convince Toronto that ICTS is better for Eglinton crosstown since it would have *more* capacity, and that LRTs are just *Glorified Streetcars* thus, even creating more people against LRTs on Transit City. How could they do this? They would try to have a concept design of the Mark III train cars and then showcase it to the public making it look and sound like Toronto "needs" it for "decent service" on Eglinton, but if it probably fails, Bombardier could possibly keep it in mind once the Skytrain Fleet ages and requires replacement.

#2 refer to #1 that Bombardier could ask the public "Do you want something nice, sleek, and new tech, or do you want something that has been used for a long time and proven not the best tech"

#3 With the cost of ICTS trains high, Bombardier "could" probably outweigh the cancellation order with the new trains, but that chance is so low.

I have an idea....

Why don't you stop with the silly "what-if" scenarios. None of them are going to happen.

Dan

[D. DeLarge]

Given what has happened with ICTS in the past, I'm pretty sure the city wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

And if they do, the media would be all over it as the second coming of the SRT ("Look at the SRT now, it's too expensive to replace and no off-the-shelf cars can run on it, etc etc etc").

[torontottc7]

My point is, the province shouldn't be given TTC as a whole, the most they could possibly do is give good advice (Province owns Metrolinx) and give funding. But since politics and public transport rarely mix, Bombardier could use the province as an *advantage* to introduce them to a top of the line system, since the upper levels of government doesn't really gives a damn about the TTC for that matter, and I used ICTS as an example, yes a poor example, and a big iffy.