Streetcar News

[Shaun]

Let's concentrate on the problem at hand  and not the one five years down the road.

[skyfirenet]

5 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Let's concentrate on the problem at hand  and not the one five years down the road.

They're the same problem.

[Xtrazsteve]

30 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Let's concentrate on the problem at hand  and not the one five years down the road.

What 5 years? What year are you in? It's not 2011. The Metrolinx LRV prototype is beyond due now. They need to get the Ion LRVs out soon to have enough for opening in 2017. Eglinton opens in September 2021, Finch is scheduled for Dec 2021. The two lines need roughly 100 LRVs which needs at least 2 years to build if they can produce 4 per month. 

The TTC streetcar problem was 2012's problem and the ML LRV was yesterday's problem.

[WKLis]

11 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

I wonder how Bombardier is going to deliver the streetcars on time for Eglinton Crosstown.

Typo: not "streetcars" but "light-rail vehicles".

[Xtrazsteve]

3 hours ago, WKLis said:

Typo: not "streetcars" but "light-rail vehicles".

They are pretty much the same thing. A streetcar is a light rail vehicle. the TTC ordered LFLRVs from Bombardier but called them streetcars!

We can argue how they are different but there are 90+% similar in design. How they operate (street running vs in tunnels) doesn't make them different.

[ttc rider]

20 hours ago, WKLis said:

 Looks like the TTC should open that order to all. 

That would be a good course of action especially since by the TTC's own estimates, the additional 60-car order will be insufficient to meet ridership demand by the late 2020's. Might as well put out a tender for a larger order now.

20 hours ago, WKLis said:

 If the federal and provincial government allow every streetcar company in the world to bid, that is.

Unfortunately, that is highly unlikely to happen, so we will likely continue to be Bombardier's bitch indefinitely.

[WKLis]

There are three "flavours" of light-rail vehicles. One, the streetcar, which would run on Toronto's legacy street railway network. Two, the light-rail vehicle, which would run on Transit City. Three, the tram-train, which might run in Montreal's network (see link).

[skyfirenet]

50 minutes ago, WKLis said:

There are three "flavours" of light-rail vehicles. One, the streetcar, which would run on Toronto's legacy street railway network. Two, the light-rail vehicle, which would run on Transit City. Three, the tram-train, which might run in Montreal's network (see link).

You do realize that the difference between those 3 has more to do with the right of way than the vehicles themselves. The only reason why there isn't a common design between the TTC's legacy network and the future LRT lines is because of the difference in reversing methods.

[TheAverageJoe]

2 hours ago, ttc rider said:

That would be a good course of action especially since by the TTC's own estimates, the additional 60-car order will be insufficient to meet ridership demand by the late 2020's. Might as well put out a tender for a larger order now.

Unfortunately, that is highly unlikely to happen, so we will likely continue to be Bombardier's bitch indefinitely.

The way it is going TTC will be getting a good amount of those 60 cars for free from Bombardier in damages.

[TDE]

Question: Has anyone noticed a short-turned streetcar in recent days, particularly the 504? Neither have I..

And while we're at it, let's not include those going home for the day or those short-turning from a planned closure (505 at Dundas West Station). Just looking to compare observation notes.

[leylandvictory2]

3 hours ago, TDE said:

Question: Has anyone noticed a short-turned streetcar in recent days, particularly the 504? Neither have I..

And while we're at it, let's not include those going home for the day or those short-turning from a planned closure (505 at Dundas West Station). Just looking to compare observation notes.

supervisors are doing street change over instead of short turns if possible.  

[nfitz]

There's certainly less. I've seen the odd one or two though.

[TDE]

4 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

supervisors are doing street change over instead of short turns if possible.  

Ahh I see. I think I recall that happening once recently. Thanks for that detail.

 

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's certainly less. I've seen the odd one or two though.

Well ain't this some...

Bring it up after so long and boom. Church.

[octranspobusfreak]

4403 was in service on the 511 a little while ago. Spotted it going south on Bathurst at Harbord at 14:45. Tried to get a couple of quick pics as it went by but they didn't turn out so well.

[Articulated]

1 hour ago, octranspobusfreak said:

4403 was in service on the 511 a little while ago. Spotted it going south on Bathurst at Harbord at 14:45. Tried to get a couple of quick pics as it went by but they didn't turn out so well.

I saw a new streetcar off in the distance today at Queen and Bathurst, didn't expect in service so didn't think much more of it.

Assignments were a little unusual today though, there were at least two ALRVs on King while there were a lot of CLRVs on Queen.

[Xtrazsteve]

Thanks the idiot who drove his car into Union Station. The 509 was sent to Bathurst Station at one point according to the tweets.

[TDE]

I'm on 4249 on King right now.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to this displacement of A's, I'm treating it almost like MiWay where in the not-so-rare of cases, you'll find something that isn't supposed to be there but it is. As long as it makes service happen, I'm down even if there are plans out there that they should be following.

Not that I find it a deal breaker, but I realized that this LEP did not include a second auto stop display for the second half of the streetcar. Odd.

And 4249 has been instructed to short turn at Bathurst w/b. Side note.

The other A is 4220 on 504.

[sammi]

49 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Thanks the idiot who drove his car into Union Station. The 509 was sent to Bathurst Station at one point according to the tweets.

What's the point of that? They could have short-turned the 509 and 510 at Queens Quay & Spadina instead.

[nfitz]

4403 is on 509 now.

509 was detouring to Bathurst station this morning and into the afternoon.  I'd assume that 4403 was on 509 not 511.

[Xtrazsteve]

22 minutes ago, nfitz said:

4403 is on 509 now.

509 was detouring to Bathurst station this morning and into the afternoon.  I'd assume that 4403 was on 509 not 511.

It was definitely on the 509 but it put up the 511 sign to Bathurst Station. I wonder if presto thinks it's a 509 or 511.

 

43 minutes ago, sammi said:

What's the point of that? They could have short-turned the 509 and 510 at Queens Quay & Spadina instead.

Probably cause Spadina/QQ to Fleet loop is only 1km and they can't possibly have 7 streetcars running around and holding up the loop. Instead, they keep the 509 on Bathurst till they can reopen Union Station for streetcars.

 

[ttc rider]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

4403 is on 509 now.

509 was detouring to Bathurst station this morning and into the afternoon.  I'd assume that 4403 was on 509 not 511.

Correct. Both 4403 and 4415 ran on 511 until the early afternoon, but they really were 509's in disguise. What was a bit unusual about this incident is how long it took clear it with more than nine hours of no streetcar service into Union Station.

2 hours ago, sammi said:

What's the point of that? They could have short-turned the 509 and 510 at Queens Quay & Spadina instead.

That's exactly what they did in the early morning, before they realized it would be more advantageous to completely replace the 509 with buses - eliminating the additional transfer at QQ/Spadina and relieving the streetcar congestion in the loop -  and send the 509 streetcars as extras on 511 instead. 

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

It was definitely on the 509 but it put up the 511 sign to Bathurst Station. I wonder if presto thinks it's a 509 or 511.

 

I've seen 510s returning down King Street to Leslie in the evening, showing a 501 sign. However, when I got a transfer after boarding, it said 504 on it (which ended up me being charged twice, as I got off at Broadview and caught a real 504 heading north ... which I wouldn't have tapped on a second time, if I'd known the "501" aka "510" thought it was a "504" (no, I didn't look at the transfer until later on).

[dowlingm]

10 hours ago, nfitz said:

I've seen 510s returning down King Street to Leslie in the evening, showing a 501 sign. However, when I got a transfer after boarding, it said 504 on it (which ended up me being charged twice, as I got off at Broadview and caught a real 504 heading north ... which I wouldn't have tapped on a second time, if I'd known the "501" aka "510" thought it was a "504" (no, I didn't look at the transfer until later on).

This is why my attitude is gonna be no second tap if I have a paper transfer. The TTC better have their procedures sorted out by the end of the year if they want to yank those.

[Xtrazsteve]

This is going to be very problematic with the bus network. It seems like TTC wants this to be an automatic system based on GPS.

Especially for express to local bus transfers. Transferring from the 39 to 199 is allowed or vice versa (in case people got on the wrong bus, people wanted to go to STC/Morningside Heights, going on the rocket for faster service, etc.). There must be a way the operator can tell the presto reader what route it's operating.

In the case of multiple branches, if a rider boarded the 32C instead of 32A, 37A instead of 37B, 43B instead of 43A, 52G instead of 52A/B/D, 86D instead of 86A/C, 116A instead of 116C, etc. then they'll have to tap on another bus on the same route. This is allowed as ops understand the situation with transfers but presto might screw up and double charge the already confused rider.

An extension to the multiple branch problem. Then there are those buses like the 32D and 52G which doesn't go all the way to Yonge Street. With paper transfers, you can transfer anywhere. People do so at Marlee case they don't have to walk across the bus terminal and that's perfectly fine. Presto disallows this. Sometimes the 32D or 52G doesn't make it to the station. With paper transfers, you can always take other 32's/52's to Keele or Jane and transfer to them. It's rare that people do this (cause mostly people are clueless waiting at the station). Would presto allow this, doesn't seem like it.

Of course the short turns. Do we tap or no? Seems like presto is making everything much more difficult on top of the already confusing transfer system.

[nfitz]

43 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Of course the short turns. Do we tap or no? Seems like presto is making everything much more difficult on top of the already confusing transfer system.

Don't tap for short turns. They still have to get this set up.

My guess is that they won't ever pull it off. I was talking to someone in Presto, who were looking into some errors on my account, and they seemed surprised when I commented that short-turns happened frequently.

Someone, the person I spoke to, seemed to think it was a rare event, and wasn't even aware that some short-turns are scheduled.