Bus a day gets yanked

[Jamz]

The TTC is running into a bus shortage as almost a bus a day is being pulled off the road for being unsafe.

"Our buses are failing," said TTC vice-chairman Adam Giambrone. "It's not because they're unsafe today, but if you continue to run them they would be unsafe.

"A few years ago we thought they would last a little longer," he said.

The oldest model GMC buses that are now 18 years old are being stretched as far as they can, but TTC deputy general manager Bob Boutilier said there's only so much that can be done to keep the oldest vehicles in the fleet rolling.

"We've run out of rabbits," Boutilier said.

The 250 remaining GMC buses can be -- and have been -- rebuilt and kept road worthy until they are 25 years old. The last ones will be off the road in 2010.

The newer Orion buses aren't as sturdy and can't make it past 18 years of service.

"In 2007 the TTC will have 320 buses pulled off the road," Boutilier said. "Or between five and 15 a week."

The buses must pass provincial safety inspections twice a year, and the bus frames are cracking, Boutilier said. If that happens, gas fumes can enter the passenger area of the bus and vehicle is pulled off the road.

Fixing the frame of the buses is very expensive and not an option.

A number of factors have led to the bus shortage:

- Ridership has grown at 2% a year, twice as much as predicted.

- The TTC runs with the lowest spare bus ratio in North America.

- Streetcar track replacement is happening at an aggressive rate, almost year-round, and buses have to fill the gaps. It takes almost three buses to replace a streetcar.

http://torontosun.ca/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/08/23/1770851-sun.html

[R. Flores]

The TTC is running into a bus shortage as almost a bus a day is being pulled off the road for being unsafe.

...

The newer Orion buses aren't as sturdy and can't make it past 18 years of service.

That could mean big trouble a few years from now, since TTC has so many of those Orion VIIs. Orion and their warranties.

- Streetcar track replacement is happening at an aggressive rate, almost year-round, and buses have to fill the gaps. It takes almost three buses to replace a streetcar.

The St.Clair ROW Construction has resulted with many buses needed to replace streetcars and in addition to that, more buses placed on routes surrounding the area, example, the 90 Vaughan route. And the construction looks like it won't be finished anytime soon.

And with TTC planning to improve service on many routes, it could lead to a bigger bus shortage.

[MT0603]

The TTC is running into a bus shortage as almost a bus a day is being pulled off the road for being unsafe.

"Our buses are failing," said TTC vice-chairman Adam Giambrone. "It's not because they're unsafe today, but if you continue to run them they would be unsafe.

"A few years ago we thought they would last a little longer," he said.

The oldest model GMC buses that are now 18 years old are being stretched as far as they can, but TTC deputy general manager Bob Boutilier said there's only so much that can be done to keep the oldest vehicles in the fleet rolling.

"We've run out of rabbits," Boutilier said.

The 250 remaining GMC buses can be -- and have been -- rebuilt and kept road worthy until they are 25 years old. The last ones will be off the road in 2010.

The newer Orion buses aren't as sturdy and can't make it past 18 years of service.

"In 2007 the TTC will have 320 buses pulled off the road," Boutilier said. "Or between five and 15 a week."

The buses must pass provincial safety inspections twice a year, and the bus frames are cracking, Boutilier said. If that happens, gas fumes can enter the passenger area of the bus and vehicle is pulled off the road.

Fixing the frame of the buses is very expensive and not an option.

A number of factors have led to the bus shortage:

- Ridership has grown at 2% a year, twice as much as predicted.

- The TTC runs with the lowest spare bus ratio in North America.

- Streetcar track replacement is happening at an aggressive rate, almost year-round, and buses have to fill the gaps. It takes almost three buses to replace a streetcar.

http://torontosun.ca/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/08/23/1770851-sun.html

Just another day at the TTC!

[new.flyer.408]

I guess that's why 2153 came back from the dead =/

[BradLee]

Well, if the government hadn't been so picky on forcing the TTC to purchase Orion pruducts, maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

[GM Classic 6247]

I guess that's why 2153 came back from the dead =/

Although from what the article is saying, just having 2153 alone doesn't look like it will be enough. Does anyone think the Classics rebuild may be a reality again since they're roughly the same age as the New Looks before them, possibly time to salvage them? Even if it is 50, its better than -50. D901 retirement doesn't look like a scenario they want now, who knows they might see 2007 afterall if they can squeeze past the inspections. The irony that there are significantly more Orion VIIs yet the GMs and Flyers are still key to the TTC's survival.

[leylandvictory2]

Well, if the government hadn't been so picky on forcing the TTC to purchase Orion pruducts, maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

I don't think the government forces TTC to purchase the Orion product. It will be even worse when TTC start to rip up the exhibition route later.

[Jamz]

So what is TTC gonna do next year, when there;s only going to be less then 100 new looks

[smallspy]

The TTC is running into a bus shortage as almost a bus a day is being pulled off the road for being unsafe.

"Our buses are failing," said TTC vice-chairman Adam Giambrone. "It's not because they're unsafe today, but if you continue to run them they would be unsafe.

"A few years ago we thought they would last a little longer," he said.

The oldest model GMC buses that are now 18 years old are being stretched as far as they can, but TTC deputy general manager Bob Boutilier said there's only so much that can be done to keep the oldest vehicles in the fleet rolling.

"We've run out of rabbits," Boutilier said.

The 250 remaining GMC buses can be -- and have been -- rebuilt and kept road worthy until they are 25 years old. The last ones will be off the road in 2010.

The newer Orion buses aren't as sturdy and can't make it past 18 years of service.

"In 2007 the TTC will have 320 buses pulled off the road," Boutilier said. "Or between five and 15 a week."

The buses must pass provincial safety inspections twice a year, and the bus frames are cracking, Boutilier said. If that happens, gas fumes can enter the passenger area of the bus and vehicle is pulled off the road.

Fixing the frame of the buses is very expensive and not an option.

A number of factors have led to the bus shortage:

- Ridership has grown at 2% a year, twice as much as predicted.

- The TTC runs with the lowest spare bus ratio in North America.

- Streetcar track replacement is happening at an aggressive rate, almost year-round, and buses have to fill the gaps. It takes almost three buses to replace a streetcar.

http://torontosun.ca/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/08/23/1770851-sun.html

Jesus.

Go all of you go back and read the article. And actually read the things in quotations, which were what Mr. Boutilier ACTUALLY said, versus the garbage that the Sun is interjecting between.

Any sort of shortage that the TTC is experiencing is not going to be nearly as bad as the article makes out to be...rather, the issue is that the TTC does have the vehicles and drivers (although I agree that they don't have enough spares), but not enough funds to allow them to operate.

Just another reason not to read the Sun.

Dan

[RailBus63]

That could mean big trouble a few years from now, since TTC has so many of those Orion VIIs. Orion and their warranties.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think the article is referring to older Orion buses and not the VII's. I find it hard to believe that the TTC (or any transit operator) would simply shrug off cracked frames on nearly new buses and say, 'Oh, it's not an option to fix them'. They'd be forcing Orion to fix the problem.

Jim D.

[David D.]

How many buses will the TTC be ordering for 2007 to help replace some of these buses?? And what kind of bus(s)?

[GM Classic 6247]

How many buses will the TTC be ordering for 2007 to help replace some of these buses?? And what kind of bus(s)?

100 Diesel Orion VII and 220 Hybrid Orion VIIs.

[David D.]

100 Diesel Orion VII and 220 Hybrid Orion VIIs.

Kool thanks alot

[stm_5307N]

100 Diesel Orion VII and 220 Hybrid Orion VIIs.

Wow, talk about Orion VII capital of the world.. I just hope the trustly New Looks can make it passed 2 more years in service.

[GM Classic 6247]

Wow, talk about Orion VII capital of the world.. I just hope the trustly New Looks can make it passed 2 more years in service.

Theres still a lot of time for the newer New Looks (2240-2485) its the other type of buses that will be lost. A good number were rebuilt in 2004 to 2005 meaning a good few should make it to 2010. From now to probably the end of 2007 we'll be losing the D901s, Classics, Orion VI, New Flyer D40 and the Ex-Montreal New Looks.

[Orion V]

100 Diesel Orion VII and 220 Hybrid Orion VIIs.

8000-8099 are confirmed as ordered. The 220 HEVs are not confirmed as of now, keep that in mind.

[Richard]

8000-8099 are confirmed as ordered. The 220 HEVs are not confirmed as of now, keep that in mind.

Your information is out of date, as that option was picked up at the last Commission meeting.

As far as the quote from Mr. Boutilier about the Orion buses not being as sturdy, what he's saying is that they can't do 18 year rebuilds on them like they could on the Fishbowls, so they have to be retired whether they like it or not.

[Orion V]

Your information is out of date, as that option was picked up at the last Commission meeting.

As far as the quote from Mr. Boutilier about the Orion buses not being as sturdy, what he's saying is that they can't do 18 year rebuilds on them like they could on the Fishbowls, so they have to be retired whether they like it or not.

So it's confirmed that next year (2007), 1000 VII diesels and 220 HEVs will be delivered?

[Shaun]

I guess he's reffereing to the flyers when he means they have cracked frames and that they are not worth fixing.

I think choosing to retire the Orion VI's so fast wasnt such a good idea. I mean yes they are a pain to re-fuel, expensive to maintain, but it's easier to keep and Orion VI in service than fix cracking frames isnt it?

[D40-90]

I guess he's reffereing to the flyers when he means they have cracked frames and that they are not worth fixing.

I think choosing to retire the Orion VI's so fast wasnt such a good idea. I mean yes they are a pain to re-fuel, expensive to maintain, but it's easier to keep and Orion VI in service than fix cracking frames isnt it?

I agree plus the orion VI are newer than flyers. And we also have to replace the wheel-trans buses, Espiecally the community buses-orion 2

[leylandvictory2]

I agree plus the orion VI are newer than flyers. And we also have to replace the wheel-trans buses, Espiecally the community buses-orion 2

yes Orion 2 will be replaced when TTC orders more cutaways in the future.

[Richard]

So it's confirmed that next year (2007), 1000 VII diesels and 220 HEVs will be delivered?

100 VII diesels and 220 HEVs are confirmed to be delivered, with some additional buses possible. At the Commission meeting next Wednesday, the Commission will be asked to approve the purchase of 140 more HEV Orion VIIs for the planned 2008 delivery.

Note that the hybrids could be changed to regular diesels if the subsidy TTC is currently getting for their purchase is withdrawn.

And we also have to replace the wheel-trans buses, Espiecally the community buses-orion 2

The replacement of the ELF fleet is part of the Capital program, and we should see a contract tendered in the very near future, as 7 of the 159 buses to be delivered are scheduled for 2007.

[MT0603]

100 VII diesels and 220 HEVs are confirmed to be delivered, with some additional buses possible. At the Commission meeting next Wednesday, the Commission will be asked to approve the purchase of 140 more HEV Orion VIIs for the planned 2008 delivery.

The replacement of the ELF fleet is part of the Capital program, and we should see a contract tendered in the very near future, as 7 of the 159 buses to be delivered are scheduled for 2007.

Dam, that means we'll have more the 1000 VIIs in 2008!

[wil9402]

Dam, that means we'll have more the 1000 VIIs in 2008!

Keep in mind that the 100 diesels and the 220 or 360 hybrids might be the redesigned Orion VII model.

[MT0603]

Keep in mind that the 100 diesels and the 220 or 360 hybrids might be the redesigned Orion VII model.

Yeah, that could be interesting!