TTC being privatized?

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Not necessarily you, but you as in the drivers / operators as a collective. Like someone said before, get your head out of your ***, or something like that. Go search for the previous posts and you'll see what I mean.

So if I am reading this correctly, I am not the same as someone who works in an office with what you are describing?

[The Canadian Roadgeek]

So if I am reading this correctly, I am not the same as someone who works in an office with what you are describing?

Take it this way. An average commuter thinks differently than a public transit operator or enthusiast. Just because 90% of the posts here are made by a public transit operator or enthusiast does not mean 2.3 million other Torontonians think the same way. And we've had enough with the TTC. Basically, if the government is not going a superb job, then let a private company do it. If you don't want that to happen, then start fixing it so all of this anti-public TTC voice will stop.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Take it this way. An average commuter thinks differently than a public transit operator or enthusiast. Just because 90% of the posts here are made by a public transit operator or enthusiast does not mean 2.3 million other Torontonians think the same way. And we've had enough with the TTC. Basically, if the government is not going a superb job, then let a private company do it. If you don't want that to happen, then start fixing it so all of this anti-public TTC voice will stop.

Transit was my only way around all my life before I got the job as a Transit operator. After I got the job, then I went and bought a car. And to add, I do know what it's like to depend on Transit and do not always agree with the way things are run.

Edited January 9, 2011 by BCT-3122-D800-10240

[D. DeLarge]

It's not just me who hates the TTC.

. The government way of doing things.

Anyone can go on the internet and post a video about how much they hate the TTC, or Honda, or unicorns.

BS is an acronym that can stand for many things. It does not have to be a vulgar word. Whereas Mr. MSM however, it was spelt full out. So I'm sorry to ruin your day 63 Ossington. And in fact, BS as a vulgar word is the third last of the list of BS on Wikipedia. Don't believe me? Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS

Again, I don't know what you're trying to prove here. Are we to interpret all your previous comments where you used BS as BioShock, Bubble Sort, or Bachelor of Science? Because we know that's not what you meant. Mr.MSM isn't hiding or twisting the facts about what he said.

So you're saying... the government's purpose is to serve EVERYONE. Have they been successful doing that? No, maybe it's time to hand it over to a private company and let them take the profit. You call walking 1 km during off-peak hours on Sunday as "serving everyone" when a government runs it. I don't think a private company can do worse than that.

Oh really. I was on the 100 Flemingdon Park the other day at around 11:15 AM, and the poor woman there with her infant child stood in the cold for 30 minutes (as she claims that she has been standing there since 10:45 AM), and there has been no buses coming by when the TTC promises 10 minutes per bus. And there wasn't any accidents, road closures, bad weather along the route. And she's not the only one. I've been through waiting for the TTC for 45 minutes when they promised 5 minutes a bus. And again, no apparent reason along the route.

What makes you think a private company is going to do any better?

TTC doesn't promise buses or subways, nor does any other agency, private or public. They offer a service, that may or may not be available depending on conditions and situations. The bus could have broken down, got hit by a car, stuck in traffic, any number of things. I don't go reading any transit schedule seeing any promise that the 168 will run exactly on time, or that I'm entitled to catching the 94 at exactly 10:45am at Harbord and Huron. In a perfect world everything would run on time all the time by the exact letter of the schedule, but factoring in reality that isn't possible.

And that was one of the public shots of the Toronto Rocket. It's on Wikipedia. Now the whole world gets to see how TTC is behind 40 years.

The map was, but that T1 shot you used wasn't.

Kennedy is not even on the route of the line that the Rocket is serving (YUS, unless YUS somehow bends after Finch and goes to Kennedy as an extension), so why is it even lit up? It's trying to confuse the average passenger and that's not an intelligent thing to do.

You don't light up interchange stations. You circle them (the TTC way) or you just simply put a long round rectangle (or something like that), not to light it up like the rest of the stations on the YUS line.

I don't know what the big deal about this is. What do you not understand about "[a] map on a prototype train that isn't even in service yet and is still in the process of being debugged." ?

[rocketdriver2019]

And Po Lam Station, opened in 2002, under a private company:

Versus Don Mills Station, opened in 2002

Anyone else here prefer the look of Don Mills station over Po Lam station? Just saying...

And I can give you plenty of examples of public systems that have stations as nice or nicer than those in Hong Kong. Like just about every station in Montreal, for example.

Private companies can afford to make better stations. Whereas under a government, we're limited to limited funds. And where we have to actually cut corners. And all 6,000 operators hogging over the resources isn't helping either.

Only because the government is paying them to do so. If the government here made the same investment in transit as the government in China does we'd have really nice stations too. And because it's public we'd likely get them for cheaper because there's no profit being made.

And totally agree with D40-90, if you're so unhappy and so stressed with your job. QUIT IT.

I see you conveniently omitted my paragraph about how I put up with all the nonsense on the job because they pay me adequately to do so.

If you can't take the stress, you're not deserved to be paid that much. Can't stress that enough (pun intended). And don't complain about your job here.

So then you agree that we're making a fair wage for the stress we undergo at work everyday?

I wish I had the time to debunk every point you've made in this entire thread (which I could do with a minimal amount of effort) but sadly I have to go and finish my work shift, so I'll have to leave it to others here.

[yrt304]

A better comparison than Hong Kong to Toronto is Melbourne to Toronto, where in Melbourne Private companies run Transit like KDR, MTR and Private bus lines and they even used to have Connex

(absolutely hated by the Public)

http://www.ptua.org.au/

Take a look at this website run by the Public Transit Users Association in Melbourne and take a look at the failings of Transit in Melbourne

[rocketdriver2019]

OK just one more little tidbit...

People are forced to walk on the yellow danger zone on the platform because it's simply too narrow. Well that'll never happen in a privately owned system, at least the Asian ones that I have witnessed so far.

New York city has many stations that are narrower than ours, and most of them were built by private companies.

And now back to work... for real this time...

[CR SD40-2]

Can someone PLEASE get rid of this guy "Canadian Roadgeek"?First of all I too feel insulted by your comment about "to many bus operator's on here",So what who cares, what do you do for a job that you think you got it easy huh,huh?I bet you probly want to be a transit worker for the TTC,but if you think TTC sucks so bad then why do you take it?????If it bothers you that much take a cab and you be TTC worry free." And we've had enough with the TTC. Basically, if the government is not going a superb job, then let a private company do it. If you don't want that to happen, then start fixing it so all of this anti-public TTC voice will stop. "

So if you like to consider yourself as the puplic and no intrest into public transportaion,then why are you a member of this board just to talk the shit and not prove anything,If your going to talk the talk make sure you can walk the walk!!

[The Canadian Roadgeek]

Anyone else here prefer the look of Don Mills station over Po Lam station? Just saying...

And I can give you plenty of examples of public systems that have stations as nice or nicer than those in Hong Kong. Like just about every station in Montreal, for example.

Try Hang Hau Station.

Also the same opening date.

You're calling all Metro Montreal's stations look nice, so I just randomly picked Jean-Drapeau, and...

OK, if that's your definition of beauty I have nothing to say about you...

And the list, I'll get back to that momentarily. I have to work too and I have a life. Your list was a list of nonsense with many and I do mean many overlapped items, that could be knocked down one-by-one, but I'll get to that after.

[new.flyer.408]

One thing that's a problem in your post:

What's necessarily "better" is too opinion-based to be an argument..so you can't say Jean-Drapeau is "better" or "worse" than Hong Hau. What may be pretty to you may not be pretty to someone else.

There are reasons why the station is designed as such. Just wondering, are you an engineer?

(also, as a side note, can we not embed images that big? I have high speed internet and it still lags me)

[MT0603]

I don't see the need for stations to look like airline terminals. Who cares what they look like, you're not going to be stuck in them for a couple hours, you're in them for a couple minutes max. As long as the station is clean and doesn't smell like a urinal, why does it matter what it looks like? Why spend so much money on something that isn't going to be improving service?

In my opinion going that balls out on a station is a waste of money and for the record, I think Jean-Drapeau looks good for a subway station, tabarnak...

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

Roadgeek, so many of your posts in this topic (and often times, elsewhere) are based on as much fact as your fellow conservative Glenn Beck's conspiracy theories churned out of his Fox Noise soap box. While your arguments for why privatised transit is better do make a salt grain of sense, you really need to take a look at WHY private transit is working better for Hong Kong and Japan, places you love to compare Toronto or Montreal with so much. Hong Kong and Japan were built around transit, the density and the cost to own a car in both jurisdictions are so high, you need to be making a huge fortune to first purchase, and then maintain the car. Compare that with here in the western world, where less than $30,000 can get you the car, and maintaining or paying for it is about $1,500 a month, something many can afford. Secondly, take a look at what private companies like GM have done to the once stellar transit infrastructure in many North American cities. With the knowledge you are projecting to have within this debate, I would imagine you would know what I'm referring to.

Your attacks on transit drivers being on this board and the attitude in their posts can be taken personally, and you really should watch what you say. In fact, most transit drivers on this board are nice people, it's posts coming people like you which turn their posts sour when trying correct you, only to dive head first into a concrete pool of your stubbornness. Mind you, in your statement telling employees to quit their jobs if they are so disgruntled with it, many people work their jobs because they have no other choice. Do you think someone who quit after high school or someone who cannot seek a job tailored to their degree can find many jobs out there with a decent pay? Some of these transit employees love the job, but distance themselves from the public because of abuse posed towards them from members of said public.

So you've shown your friends and family the transit provided here in North America, right? That probably covers only the TTC, but still you said they always leave with a negative impression of our public transport systems, believing North Americans can do better. Something tells me, you're the one feeding them the negativity of the system. Why not research WHY transit isn't so great here? I know you're interested in urban planning, why not do some research?

Roadgeek, you are a typical small-c conservative, churning out of your mouth disgustingly unrealistic ideas, posting videos anybody could make. I could very well stand at Finch Station one day and make a video and say "TTC, you've ruined me and my bank account" and then have you claim that's all 2.3 million Torontonian's dissatisfaction with the system. Check out the hiring and workplace malpractices perpetrated by private companies, and compare that with how the government performs as an employer. Small-c conservatives like you are the ones constantly bugging for less government involvement in our daily lives, things like lower taxes, no government regulations, and yet your group of opaque headed minds are the same group complaining about the inadequacies of public services.

And finally, if you are continually comparing Hong Kong and Japan with Toronto and Montreal, why not just get out of here and go back there? After all, everything there fulfills satisfaction in you. If things are unsatisfactory, why not run for public office? Raise awareness to your cause? Donate to your cause? Adding to what Denny said, attractiveness is purely subjective, and you are the one here presenting your subjective argument as objective fact. I personally love Hong Kong's transit system and its appearance, but I'd never compare it to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, New York, etc., because I know WHY there are differences between the systems which exist. You, on the other hand, should borrow a clear head and research it. To end this post where I started, what you said in your posts are just outright offensive to certain members of the board, unrealistic in logic and doability, and also just very mendacious.

[R. McConnell]

I suggest you stop using Hong Kong as an example. We've been through this before. The density of the built form in Hong Kong is something like six times that of Toronto, and thus there are more people living in a given area, allowing transit to be profitable. I can't think of any private company that would be willing to buy and operate the TTC given the density of the city.

Hong Kong's MTR Corporation turns a profit largely because it operates a highly lucrative real estate business on top of the city's transit network. Simply operating its transit system would most likely not permit the MTR Corporation to be a profitable enterprise.

New York city has many stations that are narrower than ours, and most of them were built by private companies.

Most of the antiquated subway facilities (narrow platforms, sharp curves, etc) in New York were the work of the private IRT and BMT companies. It was the city-owned IND that made it a point for its subway facilities to be more modern than those of the existing privately-owned subway networks, with longer and wider platforms, larger trains, smoother curves, and the like.

[buschic]

I don't see the need for stations to look like airline terminals. Who cares what they look like, you're not going to be stuck in them for a couple hours, you're in them for a couple minutes max. As long as the station is clean and doesn't smell like a urinal, why does it matter what it looks like? Why spend so much money on something that isn't going to be improving service?

In my opinion going that balls out on a station is a waste of money and for the record, I think Jean-Drapeau looks good for a subway station, tabarnak...

I quite agree, I like the minimalist design, I also love some of the stations in Sweden & Germany, as well of course England.

My personal fave in Toronto is Dupont. now that is truly beautiful, I take all my friends there when they come into town.

Kipling looks really bad, but then you look at it knowing its a terminal station, its also somewhat exposed to the elements, so it will look crappy over time.

a big item on my 'bucket list' is to go see the stations in Montreal & London England.

[general682002]

Another thing from one company I won't touch is Veolia, they are one of the worst companies that seriously refuse to comply what the driver and union wants! Only a few division have open mind, but the rest are closed mind. Good ol' French workers, expect to be perfect! Many drivers I've talk to hate it as there's no freedom, and this may well be a huge learning lessons when it gets worsen!

+1

I must admit, that this is a very interesting thread to read... But I cant be bothered to get my Blood Pressure up over it.... yet...

Not to mention, very young guy and we know what's his career!

[63 Ossington]

Now Mr. Roadgeek, we all know what you meant by "BS", so no need to dig up excuses. Now using your rationality, what if I and all others here said "FU"? Pick your meaning here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu Of course, in a hypothetical sense.

As for platform widths, I, and probably others as well do agree that at some Toronto stations the width is grossly inadequate, notably St.George, Yonge and Union.

And actually what China is practising is not true communism, as there is obviously capitalism occurring there. Your idea is if it's government owned/operated, it's communism. My my, my.. we live in a communist state! Man, our mail is delivered by commies, garbage picked up by commies, lives being saved by commies, driven to school/home/work by commies, what is going on!!??

As for waiting 45 minutes for a bus, yes, it is not supposed to happen, but most of the time, there is a good reason for it. Have you ever tried to determine the cause by I don't know, asking the driver? And I too have experienced such delays/gaps, that is why I said mostly, as they are rare and far in between for me.

And we know the state of this world when someone cannot walk 1 KM.. (If you are not able-bodied or have a legitimate disability, I retract that comment) Of course on a Sunday morning, there are few people out and about, so the TTC schedules accordingly. It's called fiscal responsibility. If they ran rush-hour service on a Sunday morning, you personally would cry foul for wasting taxpayer's dollars. Now if a private company was to run the service, you may need to walk a lot farther than a petty 1 KM. Who's to say if they'll even operate on a Sunday morning?

And you say Paris' RATP is nice? I think not. That has got to be one of the greeziest systems in the world. Graffiti everywhere, garbage everywhere, urine smells everywhere, and operators operating out-of-uniform. (Mr.Hoodrat-Gangsta with grills driving the #4 line?)

[Bus_Medic]

WTF is your problem with this board having bus drivers on here? I was a bus enthusiest LONG before I became a driver for Transit. I think your comment is very rude and uncalled for.

perhaps we should all simultaneously boycott....

leave the kids to their sandbox.

This pissant irritates me to no end. If all the operators leave, by his math that should take about 80% of his audience away.

It's pretty hard to have an argument by himself.

Who's in?

[DL1892]

Take it this way. An average commuter thinks differently than a public transit operator or enthusiast. Just because 90% of the posts here are made by a public transit operator or enthusiast does not mean 2.3 million other Torontonians think the same way. And we've had enough with the TTC. Basically, if the government is not going a superb job, then let a private company do it. If you don't want that to happen, then start fixing it so all of this anti-public TTC voice will stop.

Reading through this thread it seems like you don't understand the simple fact that private contracters will not take jobs unless they essentially clear their overhead. Would you work for a loss?

[buschic]

perhaps we should all simultaneously boycott....

leave the kids to their sandbox.

This pissant irritates me to no end. If all the operators leave, by his math that should take about 80% of his audience away.

It's pretty hard to have an argument by himself.

Who's in?

I'm in, as if I weren't blind, would have been a bus operator in Toronto or Hamilton.

[Mike]

 

 

Hong Kong's MTR Corporation turns a profit largely because it operates a highly lucrative real estate business on top of the city's transit network. Simply operating its transit system would most likely not permit the MTR Corporation to be a profitable enterprise.

Actually, this is not the case. From the 2009 MTR Annual report: average passenger fare 7.63 HKD, average cost per passenger: 4.01 HKD. The same report said that 61.1% of their transportation related profite came from fare revenue in Hong Kong, 17.7% came from Station commercial and rail related revenue, 15.6% came from Rental, management and other revenue and the rest came from fare revenue and franchising outside of Hong Kong. They also made money on property development. Full report here: http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrelation/2009frpt_e/E128.pdf

 

[R. McConnell]

Actually, this is not the case. From the 2009 MTR Annual report: average passenger fare 7.63 HKD, average cost per passenger: 4.01 HKD. The same report said that 61.1% of their transportation related profite came from fare revenue in Hong Kong, 17.7% came from Station commercial and rail related revenue, 15.6% came from Rental, management and other revenue and the rest came from fare revenue and franchising outside of Hong Kong. They also made money on property development. Full report here: http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrelation/2009frpt_e/E128.pdf

While those statistics are true for 2009, the MTR actually made more money through property development in 2007 and 2006: http://mtr.com.hk/eng/corporate/file_rep/PR_08_026-E1.pdf (compare the "operating profit from railway and related businesses before depreciation and amortisation" and "profit on property developments" lines) — it can happen.

[YRT-Guy]

RoadGeek. Reading through this thread I can't seem to comprehend just what your issue with the TTC is? Or what your reasoning is behind privatization of the system?

-Employee Wages? You lower wages, you will have trouble filling those empty spots, and those staying won't be as happy and will also have higher turnover.

-Station Designs? Does it really matter what the station looks like as long as the actual service is there and gets you where you need to go?

-Fare Cost? Because those will defiantly increase with privatization.

-Service Frequency? I GUARANTEE that you privatize and frequency will go down CONSIDERABLY.

-Delays? And just what makes you think that delays will not occur with privatization?

-Newer Vehicles? I'm sure a private company will want to spend tons of money to buy "nice, sleek, sexy" new vehicles at a cost of around $500,000 or MORE.

Or are you just a troll trying to get a reaction out of everyone and their grandma and then posting screenshots to your facebook/twitter account so you and your crew can get laughs out of all the "fat, old, overpaid bus drivers" out there (but yet are secretly jealous because you are not making nearly as much money and are stuck in your mother's basement surfing 4chan and porn sites all day everyday)?

[The Canadian Roadgeek]

I don't see the need for stations to look like airline terminals. Who cares what they look like, you're not going to be stuck in them for a couple hours, you're in them for a couple minutes max. As long as the station is clean and doesn't smell like a urinal, why does it matter what it looks like? Why spend so much money on something that isn't going to be improving service?

In my opinion going that balls out on a station is a waste of money and for the record, I think Jean-Drapeau looks good for a subway station, tabarnak...

The thing is, most TTC stations aren't clean. There's Metro newspaper laying everywhere, and when a train arrives at the station, the newspaper flies everywhere, transfers got trashed on the floor and sh-mushed up when someone walks in and steps on it with a wet shoe. And the dim and drowsy lighting is not very appealing either. And many stations does not have good ventilation or has too good of a ventilation that it's too cold in the winter (i.e. like Lawrence West, Yorkdale, to name a few)... And while I'm at those stations, not to mention the waiting area (the areas blocked off where you can sit) looks like they haven't been cleaned for 30 years.

If your standard claims the stations in Metro Montreal looks good (personally I only think Berri-UQAM is the one that's acceptable / looking good)... then you're pretty much saying every subway station on earth looks good.

Roadgeek, so many of your posts in this topic (and often times, elsewhere) are based on as much fact as your fellow conservative Glenn Beck's conspiracy theories churned out of his Fox Noise soap box. While your arguments for why privatised transit is better do make a salt grain of sense, you really need to take a look at WHY private transit is working better for Hong Kong and Japan, places you love to compare Toronto or Montreal with so much. Hong Kong and Japan were built around transit, the density and the cost to own a car in both jurisdictions are so high, you need to be making a huge fortune to first purchase, and then maintain the car. Compare that with here in the western world, where less than $30,000 can get you the car, and maintaining or paying for it is about $1,500 a month, something many can afford. Secondly, take a look at what private companies like GM have done to the once stellar transit infrastructure in many North American cities. With the knowledge you are projecting to have within this debate, I would imagine you would know what I'm referring to.

Your attacks on transit drivers being on this board and the attitude in their posts can be taken personally, and you really should watch what you say. In fact, most transit drivers on this board are nice people, it's posts coming people like you which turn their posts sour when trying correct you, only to dive head first into a concrete pool of your stubbornness. Mind you, in your statement telling employees to quit their jobs if they are so disgruntled with it, many people work their jobs because they have no other choice. Do you think someone who quit after high school or someone who cannot seek a job tailored to their degree can find many jobs out there with a decent pay? Some of these transit employees love the job, but distance themselves from the public because of abuse posed towards them from members of said public.

So you've shown your friends and family the transit provided here in North America, right? That probably covers only the TTC, but still you said they always leave with a negative impression of our public transport systems, believing North Americans can do better. Something tells me, you're the one feeding them the negativity of the system. Why not research WHY transit isn't so great here? I know you're interested in urban planning, why not do some research?

Roadgeek, you are a typical small-c conservative, churning out of your mouth disgustingly unrealistic ideas, posting videos anybody could make. I could very well stand at Finch Station one day and make a video and say "TTC, you've ruined me and my bank account" and then have you claim that's all 2.3 million Torontonian's dissatisfaction with the system. Check out the hiring and workplace malpractices perpetrated by private companies, and compare that with how the government performs as an employer. Small-c conservatives like you are the ones constantly bugging for less government involvement in our daily lives, things like lower taxes, no government regulations, and yet your group of opaque headed minds are the same group complaining about the inadequacies of public services.

And finally, if you are continually comparing Hong Kong and Japan with Toronto and Montreal, why not just get out of here and go back there? After all, everything there fulfills satisfaction in you. If things are unsatisfactory, why not run for public office? Raise awareness to your cause? Donate to your cause? Adding to what Denny said, attractiveness is purely subjective, and you are the one here presenting your subjective argument as objective fact. I personally love Hong Kong's transit system and its appearance, but I'd never compare it to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, New York, etc., because I know WHY there are differences between the systems which exist. You, on the other hand, should borrow a clear head and research it. To end this post where I started, what you said in your posts are just outright offensive to certain members of the board, unrealistic in logic and doability, and also just very mendacious.

First of all, quitting their job is an advice for them. It's all from good hearts. If you see someone suffering so much from their job, like as they described, the first thing you'd say is, quit your job. And it's not like they're respecting me either.

I haven't necessarily "shown" them the transit system, but taking them around requires in taking a bus (since I don't drive), and it's their comments. I have never said anything about the transit system. I haven't been feeding them any information. They were like it looks so advance from pictures and tour guides, but when you try it out, it's really behind. <-- and this is even referring to something as "innovative" as Viva. There's this constant comment that comes up, cleanliness. The cleanliness on trains, buses, simply disgusts them. And I've gotten numb to these things. I remember being like that years ago when I'm first on transit. Another thing, walking for a long distance, something that they really dislike. And yet on the other hand, I got used to walking. I'm not complaining. They're not used to it.

I see you've been doing some political science in Carleton. And what a nice way to put together your knowledge. It's videos that others put up, not me. I'm just saying, disgusts of the TTC can be found anywhere on the net. And finding that was effortless, imagine if I find more. The "TTC pisses me off" group on Facebook has over 400 members, "Overhaul the TTC", almost 200 members, "Privatize TTC", ~70 members, "Love/Hate relationship with the TTC" (Love because they need it, Hate because it really sucks, but we have no choice), close to 3,000 members, and there's this former group called "TTC = Take the Car", but I can't find that one right now. 3 groups are created under that title, but it wasn't the one I joined. But these 3 groups combine to have at least 100 members.

Well, doesn't the "Keep the TTC Public" campaign constantly compare to the "core 4 cities", Auckland, Melbourne, London, and Vancouver. It's like they are the only 4 cities on the globe.

Running campaigns? It'll be like Liu Xiaobo in China, given all the reactions here.

I know the difference and the reason why. I'm just suggesting we can do better than getting stuck in the 1970s, and start putting more money to transit. And if the government refuses to, we have to get the resource off somewhere...

Hong Kong's MTR Corporation turns a profit largely because it operates a highly lucrative real estate business on top of the city's transit network. Simply operating its transit system would most likely not permit the MTR Corporation to be a profitable enterprise.

Most of the antiquated subway facilities (narrow platforms, sharp curves, etc) in New York were the work of the private IRT and BMT companies. It was the city-owned IND that made it a point for its subway facilities to be more modern than those of the existing privately-owned subway networks, with longer and wider platforms, larger trains, smoother curves, and the like.

I lived in Hong Kong for 11 years. I know well that MTR makes most of its profit from real estate. I have friends who live in estates of the MTR. And I've been to shopping centres numerous times that's owned by the MTR.

What did the TTC do to fix that narrow platform? Nothing. At least put up like barriers or some sort if you're not going to bother to expand that platform. Do we have to wait till one person falls onto the track due to overcrowding, either got shocked by the electricity on the tracks or run over by an incoming train, then we know we'll need to solve that problem? If you're saying it's not the original construction's fault, then we should think of ways to fix it now, before tragedy happens.

I quite agree, I like the minimalist design, I also love some of the stations in Sweden & Germany, as well of course England.

My personal fave in Toronto is Dupont. now that is truly beautiful, I take all my friends there when they come into town.

Kipling looks really bad, but then you look at it knowing its a terminal station, its also somewhat exposed to the elements, so it will look crappy over time.

a big item on my 'bucket list' is to go see the stations in Montreal & London England.

Minimalist? So that includes ones with so dim of a lighting that makes a hotbed for crime or one that you can't see what's ahead of you, and the gloominess just consumes you all? I'm not thinking of something grand like the Union Station Concourse Level. I just want the platforms to be wider, have screen doors, have better lighting (at least till Don Mills Station lighting level). That's all I'm asking. Kipling and Kennedy do look really bad, I would have thought it's from the 60s as opposed from 79/80.

Another thing from one company I won't touch is Veolia, they are one of the worst companies that seriously refuse to comply what the driver and union wants! Only a few division have open mind, but the rest are closed mind. Good ol' French workers, expect to be perfect! Many drivers I've talk to hate it as there's no freedom, and this may well be a huge learning lessons when it gets worsen!

Not to mention, very young guy and we know what's his career!

Veolia operates sleek transit as a matter of fact that I've learned from their site. And I appreciate that, and as far as I can tell, they're doing a pretty good job in running public transit. Veolia does not comply with what the union wants for a reason. Sometimes what the union wants is outrageous.

And you don't know what you don't know. My career is not what you think it is. And don't stalk like that.

Now Mr. Roadgeek, we all know what you meant by "BS", so no need to dig up excuses. Now using your rationality, what if I and all others here said "FU"? Pick your meaning here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu Of course, in a hypothetical sense.

As for platform widths, I, and probably others as well do agree that at some Toronto stations the width is grossly inadequate, notably St.George, Yonge and Union.

And actually what China is practising is not true communism, as there is obviously capitalism occurring there. Your idea is if it's government owned/operated, it's communism. My my, my.. we live in a communist state! Man, our mail is delivered by commies, garbage picked up by commies, lives being saved by commies, driven to school/home/work by commies, what is going on!!??

As for waiting 45 minutes for a bus, yes, it is not supposed to happen, but most of the time, there is a good reason for it. Have you ever tried to determine the cause by I don't know, asking the driver? And I too have experienced such delays/gaps, that is why I said mostly, as they are rare and far in between for me.

And we know the state of this world when someone cannot walk 1 KM.. (If you are not able-bodied or have a legitimate disability, I retract that comment) Of course on a Sunday morning, there are few people out and about, so the TTC schedules accordingly. It's called fiscal responsibility. If they ran rush-hour service on a Sunday morning, you personally would cry foul for wasting taxpayer's dollars. Now if a private company was to run the service, you may need to walk a lot farther than a petty 1 KM. Who's to say if they'll even operate on a Sunday morning?

And you say Paris' RATP is nice? I think not. That has got to be one of the greeziest systems in the world. Graffiti everywhere, garbage everywhere, urine smells everywhere, and operators operating out-of-uniform. (Mr.Hoodrat-Gangsta with grills driving the #4 line?)

"Fu", interesting. Due to my heritage, the first thing that came to mind was 富 (fu in Cantonese/Mandarin romanization) or 福 (fu in Mandarin romanization), meaning fortune (the first meaning fortune as in money/rich, and the second as in fortunate). Or 褲 (fu in Cantonese romanization) meaning pants. And FYI, I'm not the first one to start using the acronym, but Rocketdriver2019 or some person that goes by this name started first. He said "likely because they see the BS that we go through on a daily basis". I could have been just inferring to him. And I said, "TTC operator trying to save their job and continue with this BS with the current transit system", it could be studying a Bachelor of Science for public transit planning, it could be bus stops, it could be Behavioural Science with the current transit system. Well on the other hand, you've started using Fu first in this case.

We do live in a communist state, in a sense. Really, other than freedom of speech and the eligibility, it really does seem like communism, doesn't it...?

It's not supposed to happen, yes. The woman asked the driver. The driver shrugged. He says, "I don't know. There's supposed to be 2 in front of me." Well, where did the 2 go? And it was on a cold winter day too. And these happen very frequently for me, especially during rush hours.

The general public would refuse walking beyond 300 m. It's a major push factor that the TTC imposes on the general public, especially on stormy days or frigid days. As a matter of fact, where I live, I have to walk out 750 m even on a regular day. That's a 10-minute walk. Sundays this deteriorates to 1000 m.

Well, in Paris, I'm not referring to all of them, but look at some of them, like Saint-Lazare, they actually bothered to renew it and add screen doors for some platforms, better lighting, when the station is 106 years old, and not to mention the newer part with Line 14 looks amazing.

perhaps we should all simultaneously boycott....

leave the kids to their sandbox.

This pissant irritates me to no end. If all the operators leave, by his math that should take about 80% of his audience away.

It's pretty hard to have an argument by himself.

Who's in?

On one hand, you're complaining how I'm "insulting" you drivers here. On the other hand, you're not making much nice comments about me either. "the kids". Way to go, like some of you said, I'm really offended by that. And what I've been saying is the truth, it's true that most of the active members here are drivers. If you are so passionate of your job, you shouldn't be denying that and be proud that I stated that fact. And by my math, that takes away 90% not 80%.

And I was in boycotting all of you for roughly 4 hours. But you guys continue with this insult and nonsense, which brings me back to the table, especially the person named MSM.

Go Transit replaces their buses earlyer then any other transit agency I can think of.... and BTW most of the retired buses are easy to be sold second hand to other public and private agency's all over North America just because of the reputation GO transit has to the standards of its bus fleet.

Here in CANADA most private businesses will cut corners anywhere and not spend any money they don't have too.

The problem with private businesses is managers and senior staff will get bonuses yearly/quarterly all about how profitable the company is. Cut costs, Prevent accidents do this and that.. cut man hours and only do repairs that are urgent are ways for them to get bigger bonuses. At one of my jobs, We get a profit sharing program and we get hazed daily about everything we do that could effect the bonus. Its sickening to see this practice because its blood money to suffering so much just to make a stupid bonus that is not worth all the heartache in the end.

Veiola posts FREE ads on kijiji for bus drivers instead of putting an effort into having a accurate professional done website

Coach Canada crams buses into a undersized yard in Whitby for DRT contract buses.

I am sure others could think of more ways a company cut corners.

If you cant handle me then you can feel free to Quit. does that sound good to you?

And if you feel like playing a game, Lets see what kind of rules you sir have broken:

QUOTE (CPTDB rules, general posting of conditions of use, 2nd bullet)

Posts containing any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, and/or invasive of a person's privacy may be removed. However, we also reserve the right to remove any post for any reason.

Thats what you've broken... But if you want to call me out on one or 2 violations, you may want to pick up a mirror and look at some of the outrageous stuff you have posted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy is what this guy is an example of (A proven FACT! and not to be taken as a personal attack)

I don't need to see a buttock of a bull, thank you very much. And that's a suggestion of profanity, which also runs into the CPTDB rules. And it's not like I'm the only one who spread hateful messages. You clearly did too, right there, and numerous posts before. And it's not your first time swearing on CPTDB either, as I've seen some of your previous posts.

The GO is operated by the provincial government, and since they're not putting any money to the TTC, they have more money to work with the GO Transit. And I do agree, the GO is so much more attractive than the TTC.

It appears to me that you don't understand what Veolia is doing there. Veolia can ALSO post FREE ads on their own site, but chooses to go to Kijiji cause more people look for jobs there. Why the heck, when you're looking for jobs, to think of Veolia as the first thing? And you don't need an effort to put an ad on your own website.

I did quit for 4 hours. Didn't you see? But your highness, Sir MSM, kept on adding this hypocrisy thing, as if it's a fun word to use. And there, you've broken a rule on abusive and harassing my beliefs right there. "pretending to have beliefs and feelings", that's what you saying I have. And that's a violation and abuse and harassment of my own beliefs and feelings. It's Canada here, and I say what I stand for, like what buschic says, I speak my mind, if you don't like it, don't read it then. Don't say that I'm a hypocrite. And that's a way worse offense than simply commenting that you all here are bus drivers, which is a wonderful job. You think you're hilarious with the hypocrite thing but I'm sorry, you're not, and that was a really bad joke that shouldn't have made in the first place. I am a human, with feelings and all, and it's not your job here to start saying I'm a hypocrite, with proof too, which is non-existant. All I've said here represents everything I stand for, and it's true with no lies. And you, sir, have insulted my religion, my family, my pride, my heritage, my values, my life, my everything. It's a serious word to use, and you here, is not giving me the basic human rights. I doubt you even think I'm human, or at least an human with no feelings and one for you to make fun of. Don't even say that again, to anyone, including your passengers (if you're a driver), or the person sitting beside you (if you're not a driver), and certainly not to others waiting at a bus stop. And I'm not doing any customer service, nor working for you, so you really have no right to say that to me.

And quoting on Waiting for 30 minutes, Wikipedia, boy do we start trusting you now.

Actually, this is not the case. From the 2009 MTR Annual report: average passenger fare 7.63 HKD, average cost per passenger: 4.01 HKD. The same report said that 61.1% of their transportation related profite came from fare revenue in Hong Kong, 17.7% came from Station commercial and rail related revenue, 15.6% came from Rental, management and other revenue and the rest came from fare revenue and franchising outside of Hong Kong. They also made money on property development. Full report here: http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrelation/2009frpt_e/E128.pdf

And not to mention they worked out the fare by the distance you travel. And they make a lot of money with having stores inside the stations.

[YRT-Guy]

The thing is, most TTC stations aren't clean. There's Metro newspaper laying everywhere, and when a train arrives at the station, the newspaper flies everywhere, transfers got trashed on the floor and sh-mushed up when someone walks in and steps on it with a wet shoe.

Thank your fellow riders for that mess. They are the ones leaving Metro papers everywhere, littering everywhere, tossing their transfers on the ground.

I see you've been doing some political science in Carleton. And what a nice way to put together your knowledge. It's videos that others put up, not me. I'm just saying, disgusts of the TTC can be found anywhere on the net. And finding that was effortless, imagine if I find more. The "TTC pisses me off" group on Facebook has over 400 members, "Overhaul the TTC", almost 200 members, "Privatize TTC", ~70 members, "Love/Hate relationship with the TTC" (Love because they need it, Hate because it really sucks, but we have no choice), close to 3,000 members, and there's this former group called "TTC = Take the Car", but I can't find that one right now. 3 groups are created under that title, but it wasn't the one I joined. But these 3 groups combine to have at least 100 members.

Hmm, 3,670 members? Yet more than 2.5 million people in Toronto.

Veolia operates sleek transit as a matter of fact that I've learned from their site. And I appreciate that, and as far as I can tell, they're doing a pretty good job in running public transit. Veolia does not comply with what the union wants for a reason. Sometimes what the union wants is outrageous.

LOL.. if only you really knew.

It's not supposed to happen, yes. The woman asked the driver. The driver shrugged. He says, "I don't know. There's supposed to be 2 in front of me." Well, where did the 2 go? And it was on a cold winter day too. And these happen very frequently for me, especially during rush hours.

Yes, A driver knows details for every other bus on the route (being sarcastic). So since I've been in the same predicament with apparently being the only bus for about an hour on a 20minute frequency route and my answer was "sorry I have no idea" was a bad, wrong thing? Sorry I'm not up to par with every other bus out there, and not that I have enough to worry about with my own vehicle. I'm responsible for my own bus, not others.

I doubt you even think I'm human, or at least an human with no feelings and one for you to make fun of.

Welcome to my world as a bus driver.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

Get a shovel, Mr. Roadgeek.

Riders have a responsibility to keep their own system clean too, as YRT-Guy implied. If you're asking for respect from fellow posters, don't sarcastically refer to another member as "your highness, sir MSM", because we all know that's not as a complimentary term. From what I see here, most of the disrespect towards you is instigated by you, nothing here has been unprovoked. It began with a simple disagreement with your point of view, and spiraled to what it has become now because of the outlandish statements associated with your ideas.

Though there's nothing worse than having to repeat something oneself said, I will do it again. You need to do your research to the background underlying this issue, WHY is transit less than stellar here, the situations, circumstances which permit the success in transit operations overseas compared to here. What has happened throughout history, policies, governments, etc. Also, speaking of research, don't assume either--I'm not doing poli-sci.