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Vancouver general sightings and notes

Enviro 500

By Enviro 500
in Metro Vancouver

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Dane

Dane

Posted
Posted

That pretrip video was surprisingly interesting. 

 

Three questions for operators: 

 

1. That process, even appreciated it was slowed considerably for the sake of explanation, was really really long. Does that actually happen every time a bus leaves a yard? How long does the process take an average operator? 

 

2. I may have misunderstood its meaning, but the Nova in the video appeared to have a low gas warning? I am under the impression transit buses don't have gas gauges. Do they all have low fuel warnings? Am I totally incorrect? 

 

3. What happens if you hit the "Operator Assault" button he mentions twice other than the flashing lights? Is a notification sent anywhere? I've not heard of this, I'm assuming Victoria (where I reside) doesn't have it? 

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MCW Metrobus

MCW Metrobus

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3 minutes ago, Dane said:

That pretrip video was surprisingly interesting. 

 

Three questions for operators: 

 

1. That process, even appreciated it was slowed considerably for the sake of explanation, was really really long. Does that actually happen every time a bus leaves a yard? How long does the process take an average operator? 

 

2. I may have misunderstood its meaning, but the Nova in the video appeared to have a low gas warning? I am under the impression transit buses don't have gas gauges. Do they all have low fuel warnings? Am I totally incorrect? 

 

3. What happens if you hit the "Operator Assault" button he mentions twice other than the flashing lights? Is a notification sent anywhere? I've not heard of this, I'm assuming Victoria (where I reside) doesn't have it? 

1. 20 minutes.

2. Yes, I believe that is a low fuel warning light, and yes, you are correct in that none of CMBC's conventional buses have fuel gauges. That said, there is no comparable light on the D40LFs.

3. Not sure this should be discussed on a public forum especially since that video is supposed to be internal.

 

3 hours ago, Peter M said:

 

Where did you find that link? Technically that's meant to be internal to CMBC. (Not that anyone outside can be blamed if the video is publicly viewable on Youtube, because DVDs and books were discontinued due to budget cuts...)

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MCW Metrobus

MCW Metrobus

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1 minute ago, Dane said:

CMBC appears to have terrible security settings. I just was able to view the list of all 51 videos; won't post it here if there is a concern the videos shouldn't be public? 

I'm not arguing with that. I believe that the videos are "unlisted" so the only way they can be viewed is if someone shares the link, so that must have happened at some point. That said, as you say, that feature isn't the greatest way to keep something internal. :P

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Peter M

Peter M

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12 minutes ago, MCW Metrobus said:

 

 

20 minutes ago, MCW Metrobus said:

Where did you find that link? Technically that's meant to be internal to CMBC. (Not that anyone outside can be blamed if the video is publicly viewable on Youtube, because DVDs and books were discontinued due to budget cuts...)

I found the link while viewing someone's YouTube channel. That person liked the video posted above so I decided to watch it. Should I delete the post then?

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GORDOOM

GORDOOM

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32 minutes ago, Meraki said:

All the buses have prefixes (except the trolleys, which are now also receiving prefixes.)

The pedant in me is glad to see the inconsistency fixed. (Though interestingly enough, exactly one of each trolley model - E901, E40LFR, E60LFR - has had the garage prefix applied for some reason.) The transit enthusiast is wondering hopefully: does this mean that another garage (say, Burnaby) might be getting trolleybuses at some point?

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dover5949

dover5949

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You think how of many decals they need 4 for each coach times the cost of making the decals then having a shop personal slap on the decals times each coach how long it takes per coach. I'm sure there is much higher maintenance jobs that need to be done then slapping on a useless garage prefix. Is CMBC that useless that they don't know which depot the fleet is assigned to?

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MCW Metrobus

MCW Metrobus

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39 minutes ago, Peter M said:

 

I found the link while viewing someone's YouTube channel. That person liked the video posted above so I decided to watch it. Should I delete the post then?

Doesn't really matter, like I say, if the video can be accessed by the public, then somebody leaked it, and it's not anybody's problem. There also isn't really any top-secret classified information in it - we all know what a Nova looks like, and most* commercial drivers know how to do a pre-trip.

(I don't even need to watch the video to know what it contains; I watched it about three times a day during the first two weeks of my training last summer. Every time I do a pre-trip on a Nova I hear Mark Shaughnessy's voice...)

 

 

 

*unless they drive for Wing Ding Tours, Ding Dong Bus Lines or some such outfit for $10.50/hr

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northwesterner

northwesterner

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dane said:

That pretrip video was surprisingly interesting. 

Three questions for operators: 

1. That process, even appreciated it was slowed considerably for the sake of explanation, was really really long. Does that actually happen every time a bus leaves a yard? How long does the process take an average operator? 

When I was training new drivers to earn their Commercial Driver's License, most of my colleagues found it harder to teach the pre-trip than to teach the actual driving. We used to do one on one sessions - and as the instructor I would start by going through the full pretrip, and describing what I was doing (we also had practice videos, like this, for the trainees to review at home). The first time I would do it it would take close to 90 minutes. The second time I could get it down to an hour. The third time (with student) I would do it myself, verbally, but start quizzing the student. By the fourth time, I asked them to take the lead. It would be six or seven sessions before we were under an hour.

As the commercial vehicle inspection program has been standardized across the US and Canada this was nearly identical to what is required in the United States. It is important to note that much of what the instructor did in this video is required for passing a CDL exam - discussing the braking systems, steering systems, etc. You need to be able to verbalize the system, the items you'd be checking, and what the flaws would be (including the bit about manual slack adjusters, though this guy was very specific, all the way down the wrench size required). No bus driver can actually see or do these things on a bus because of the way the vehicles are designed. But because your license (at least in the US) will allow you to drive a straight truck, where you can see and inspect these items, you're tested on them. 

Trust me, operators aren't walking around their buses in the morning thinking about checking the steering box u-joints before they leave the yard. Can't see 'em, don't check 'em. 

One should also note that Vancouver continues to be the only system I've encountered where operators check the rear door sensitive edge on pre-trip (I've seen it done on road reliefs, in Vancouver). 

I was also interested to see how the Nova is configured with regards to drivers controls, and switch layout. There are some interesting settings there - and I'm not familiar enough with Novas to know if they are Nova standard settings, or CMBC specified settings

On the air brake test the instructor talks about "governor loading." In the US we talk about governor cut-in and cut-out, but don't use the terms load and unload. No difference, really, just took me a second to realize what he was talking about. 

Also, the instructor, when checking the air brake build-up system, placed the throttle at 1/3 (with his foot) and then verbalized that the compressor should build from 50 to 90 psi in 3 minutes. I thought it was interesting that he used the throttle pedal to accomplish this rather than the fast idle switch. Additionally, I don't think that is the right test (warning - controversy ahead).

I just happen to have a copy of California Commercial Driver's Handbook on my coffee table (don't ask...). These are pretty standard across states, though the California one has some goodies I've never seen before (quick -in the US, up to how many pounds of solid, Class 6 poisons may be transported inside the passenger compartment of a bus?). It notes what I learned, and taught years ago. Here's a quote "When the engine is at operating rpms, the pressure should be from 85 to 100 psi within 45 seconds in dual air systems. In single air systems (pre-1975), typical requirements are pressure build up from 50 to 90 psi within 3 minutes with the engine at idle." 

As I noted previously, these inspection standards are established and standardized across the US and Canada (because, on a roadside inspection by a certified commercial vehicle law enforcement inspector, in either country, your vehicle has to actually be able to do these things). When I was taught, and later trained, we used the "15psi in 45 seconds at fast idle" rule in newer equipment, equipped with functional fast idle. For our older coaches (Fishbowls) we did the 40psi in 3 minutes test at idle (we didn't have a fast idle switch, anyways). So I was very surprised to watch this instructor use the older 40lbs in 3 minutes test while operating the vehicle at 1/3 throttle. 

Anyways, thanks for the share!

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northwesterner

northwesterner

Posted
Posted

Update: Not one to write without researching, I pulled the relevant licensing guides for Alberta, Ontario, and British Columbia. The air brake test described in the video (that I took issue with, above) is as per the British Columbia and Alberta standards. Note that Ontario does something different (15lbs, at regular idle, in two minutes). This is a different build-up test than is required in the U.S. and may be the most obvious point of divergence in inspection criteria between the two countries. 

It'd be interesting to know how, and why, these air brake system build up tests are just about the only part of the vehicle inspection requirements that are different. 

I will leave my above comments in place, as an interesting aside to the video. Please consider this post an addendum to the above comments. Try to learn something new every day...

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Express691

Express691

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, iliketrains said:

yeah most of the 2016 XD40's are getting their prefixes 

Took a while for me to learn that prefix sightings dont really matter

5 minutes ago, buizel10 said:

I saw:

H7274 (or something like that) doing a 410 Railway via Fraserwood

16004 doing another 410 Railway via Fraserwood (back to back with 7274)

410s bunching up is super common, and 7274 is retired. Nonetheless its just a D40LF. We can just look at Tcomm and post in the e-sightings thread if we see something special. The wiki has been updated to reflect data on retired buses.

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