Nova or NFI Artics or Double Deckers?

[Transit geek]

3 hours ago, tomsbuspage said:

Indeed, that was one of the criteria OC Transpo were considering a decade ago when deciding whether to purchase double decker buses in the first place.  The Enviro500 buses have only two doors, compared to three for an articulated bus, so loading time was one of the main factors in deciding to put double deckers on the express routes, and artics on what are now the Rapid routes.

Not to worth mentioning three-door double deckers do exist, either of the kind in Berlin and London (UK) which has a doorway at the rear as well as the middle, or the kind recently in service in Singapore which has two adjacent, independent doorways in the middle. In either case, a second staircase is adjacent to the rear doorway.

[GrandeWest_B35G]

1 hour ago, Transit geek said:

Not to worth mentioning three-door double deckers do exist, either of the kind in Berlin and London (UK) which has a doorway at the rear as well as the middle, or the kind recently in service in Singapore which has two adjacent, independent doorways in the middle. In either case, a second staircase is adjacent to the rear doorway.

So a similar door placement to the Orion VI?

[Loud-Invero]

On 6/17/2019 at 11:14 AM, SMS said:

I would throw in the Montreal Road service (12) and the 105 Gatineau service in the above list.

They're going to combine route 105 with 66, which usually uses DD for the first 4 trips especially.

[SMS]

22 hours ago, Loud-Invero said:

They're going to combine route 105 with 66, which usually uses DD for the first 4 trips especially.

I find this surprising, considering that the 66 is a contrapeak route with nowhere near the frequency of the 105.

[Loud-Invero]

1 hour ago, SMS said:

I find this surprising, considering that the 66 is a contrapeak route with nowhere near the frequency of the 105.

I know, I am just as dumbfounded as you are. But it's here in the service change for when Line 1 is open. http://www.octranspo.com/en/ready-for-rail/my-trip/my-route/

 

My guess is that either they will have counter trips that start at Tunney's (or wherever) or just have the route run in both directions during peak periods to supplement service to and from Gatineau. This change is very confusing for me...

[bsnider001]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:24 PM, Loud-Invero said:

I know, I am just as dumbfounded as you are. But it's here in the service change for when Line 1 is open. http://www.octranspo.com/en/ready-for-rail/my-trip/my-route/

 

My guess is that either they will have counter trips that start at Tunney's (or wherever) or just have the route run in both directions during peak periods to supplement service to and from Gatineau. This change is very confusing for me...

Unless it's for those who live in Gatineau and work in Kanata north? Otherwise I'm very confused as well.

The 61 and 63 will also serve Gatineau but will be the opposite direction to the new 66 (or so I assume), so maybe that's their idea...

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, SMS said:

I find this surprising, considering that the 66 is a contrapeak route with nowhere near the frequency of the 105.

 

On 6/22/2019 at 9:24 PM, Loud-Invero said:

I know, I am just as dumbfounded as you are. But it's here in the service change for when Line 1 is open. http://www.octranspo.com/en/ready-for-rail/my-trip/my-route/

My guess is that either they will have counter trips that start at Tunney's (or wherever) or just have the route run in both directions during peak periods to supplement service to and from Gatineau. This change is very confusing for me...

Six trips on the 66 will depart Gatineau in the morning, and the other 10 from Tunney's Pasture. In the afternoon, six trips will end in Gatineau, 12 at Tunney's Pasture.

[bsnider001]

22 hours ago, Waiting for 30 Minutes said:

 

Six trips on the 66 will depart Gatineau in the morning, and the other 10 from Tunney's Pasture. In the afternoon, six trips will end in Gatineau, 12 at Tunney's Pasture.

So what I said was correct; they're for workers who live in Gatineau and work in Kanata north. Do the morning trips still end st 2500 Solandt, or are a few still extended to Innovation Station?

[MCIBUS]

Didn't want to start a new thread, so will just add to this one.

 

With OC ordering more Nova's(and I'm assuming this has something to do with MetroLinxs, not sure exactly what?), but that aside I'm wondering what OC will do with "High Capacity" buses?

 

I know the earlier artics(6351-6403) are /where being rebuilt. I'm assuming the  6404-6709  will get rebuilt at some point. The DD Buses are still pretty new so it'll be sometime before their rebuilt(assuming they are).

I don't know what the future holds for OC bus purchase after these Nova's, but with the LRT(Stage 2 Line 1 & 2 suppose to be finished by 2025, assuming there are no delays) that said  basically about 5 years away.

 

I don't know if OC will invest in "electric buses"(not hybrids)or not, if they go down that road that till remains to be seen, I know there's suppose to be some "test" there supposedly suppose  to do, but as for 'High Capacity' buses are concerned, I don't actually seeing them buying any not for a long time, more like they'll rebuild the ones they have.

 

From my understanding(I could be mistaken here, some one correct me if I'm wrong) but I dio believe OC's bus fleet is suppose to shrink in size. Whether that actually happens I can't say and only time will say if actually happens.

 

But assuming they do get more high capacity buses any thoughts Artics? or DD? my guess is DD buses.

[OCCheetos]

2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

I don't know if OC will invest in "electric buses"(not hybrids)or not, if they go down that road that till remains to be seen, I know there's suppose to be some "test" there supposedly suppose  to do

Unless the couple of electric buses they "pilot" end up being immediate failures, it's effectively a given that OC Transpo will be moving to electric purchases within the next few years. They're a bit late to the game, but their approach to electric vehicles is more aggressive than some other agencies.

2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

But assuming they do get more high capacity buses any thoughts Artics? or DD? my guess is DD buses.

I think the number of artics will shrink over time as LRT largely replaces the need for them, but I also think it's almost certain that more artic purchases will happen in the future. Even with the growth of LRT, there's still plenty of BRT in the plans for years and years to come. Baseline BRT within a few years, March Rd and Cumberland BRT later down the line, bus lanes on Carling, etc. will all demand high capacity buses and double deckers aren't really suited for those types of routes. (that said it's not like OC Transpo really cares about how well-suited a bus is for the route it's being sent on... but I digress).

Overall, it's hard to really say with any certainty what will happen to the fleet in the future. LRT will reduce some need for buses, and the downsizing of transit services to some degree is all but inevitable.

[ZümmyZüm]

5 hours ago, OCCheetos said:

Overall, it's hard to really say with any certainty what will happen to the fleet in the future. LRT will reduce some need for buses, and the downsizing of transit services to some degree is all but inevitable.

Yes and no, OC is going to be at a critical stage in the next couple years in terms of what they do with their fleet and services. With the LRT effectively removing the transitway former routes, there clearly won’t be a need there. However there is a need for all the corridors you mentioned and an opportunity to create 15 min service across the board on routes like even much smaller sized cities are able to do. We also need to remember OC TRANSPO stands for Ottawa-Carleton regional Transit Commission, OC can ( and should ) expand its services outward offering GO Transit style service to bring residences on the outside of the region inwards, this city is massive and the next few years should be the time to increase the service levels and distance and bring back all those who have abandoned transit since 2011

[Flalex72]

11 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Didn't want to start a new thread, so will just add to this one.

 

With OC ordering more Nova's(and I'm assuming this has something to do with MetroLinxs, not sure exactly what?), but that aside I'm wondering what OC will do with "High Capacity" buses?

 

I know the earlier artics(6351-6403) are /where being rebuilt. I'm assuming the  6404-6709  will get rebuilt at some point. The DD Buses are still pretty new so it'll be sometime before their rebuilt(assuming they are).

I don't know what the future holds for OC bus purchase after these Nova's, but with the LRT(Stage 2 Line 1 & 2 suppose to be finished by 2025, assuming there are no delays) that said  basically about 5 years away.

 

I don't know if OC will invest in "electric buses"(not hybrids)or not, if they go down that road that till remains to be seen, I know there's suppose to be some "test" there supposedly suppose  to do, but as for 'High Capacity' buses are concerned, I don't actually seeing them buying any not for a long time, more like they'll rebuild the ones they have.

 

From my understanding(I could be mistaken here, some one correct me if I'm wrong) but I dio believe OC's bus fleet is suppose to shrink in size. Whether that actually happens I can't say and only time will say if actually happens.

The Mer

But assuming they do get more high capacity buses any thoughts Artics? or DD? my guess is DD buses.

The Metrolinx Transit Purchasing Initiative is basically a bunch of agencies getting together, deciding roughly what they want, and then tendering it as a large group purchase. This makes it much easier for the many agencies that only need 1-5 new buses to get a good deal, both for the bus and the work on their end tendering, evaluating etc. Ottawa happened to be looking for 40' buses and saw a good deal in the TPI without the need to run their own tender, and we got Novas.

The TPI tends to focus on 40' buses and smaller, since that meets the needs of the smaller agencies. For larger buses, you're left on your own, and OC is certainly no stranger to that method of purchasing. I think there is certainly a demand for 60' buses in Ottawa, maybe not the 300 of them we have now with more double deckers in the fleet. We will probably see a tender to replace some as the oldest ones come due in a few years.

[TMTheBusFan]

I have a feeling if any new high-capacity buses are purchased that they will be Nova LFS Artics rather than purchasing 60' buses from NFI.

[Loud-Invero]

See i think OC would choose Novas for parts compatability with the LFS, but my problem with the artic LFS, at least in Gatineau, is the rear doors are super narrow and there are no seats on the bending joint, which,  IMO, is inefficient seating. I'm hoping oc would go with NFI, but I have a feeling in my spine that they'd go with Nova artics when it's time to replace the D40i and the LF's (maybe LFR's?)

[ZümmyZüm]

3 hours ago, Loud-Invero said:

See i think OC would choose Novas for parts compatability with the LFS, but my problem with the artic LFS, at least in Gatineau, is the rear doors are super narrow and there are no seats on the bending joint, which,  IMO, is inefficient seating. I'm hoping oc would go with NFI, but I have a feeling in my spine that they'd go with Nova artics when it's time to replace the D40i and the LF's (maybe LFR's?)

It’s all about specs, OC can order theirs with wide rear doors like the TTC and Translink, even with the 40 footers any spec can be changed. But it’s likely nova going forward. New flyer relations aren’t that great as it is with OC.  

As for the seating in the middle, I don’t believe nova offers that as an option 

[Flalex72]

5 hours ago, TMTheBusFan said:

I have a feeling if any new high-capacity buses are purchased that they will be Nova LFS Artics rather than purchasing 60' buses from NFI.

The pencil pushers and bean counters in the purchasing department don't have transit fan preferences for one bus over another. They buy the cheapest vehicle that meets the specifications. At the quantity that OC buys buses, there's no significant economies of scale from having more of one type of bus than another.

5 hours ago, Loud-Invero said:

See i think OC would choose Novas for parts compatability with the LFS, but my problem with the artic LFS, at least in Gatineau, is the rear doors are super narrow and there are no seats on the bending joint, which,  IMO, is inefficient seating. I'm hoping oc would go with NFI, but I have a feeling in my spine that they'd go with Nova artics when it's time to replace the D40i and the LF's (maybe LFR's?)

Regardless of what type of bus we get, I hope they eliminate the turntable seating. The seats are close together so the aisle is narrowed by people's knees, and there is a lack of handholds in that area. This combines to create a bottleneck and restrict people from moving to the back of the bus.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

8 hours ago, Loud-Invero said:

See i think OC would choose Novas for parts compatability with the LFS, but my problem with the artic LFS, at least in Gatineau, is the rear doors are super narrow and there are no seats on the bending joint, which,  IMO, is inefficient seating. I'm hoping oc would go with NFI, but I have a feeling in my spine that they'd go with Nova artics when it's time to replace the D40i and the LF's (maybe LFR's?)

The idea of having as many seats as possible is quite rooted in commuter culture. With the light rail replacing much of the travel distance of commutes, it makes sense for seats to be reduced in buses. Not to mention it's super difficult to walk past the articulation joint when four people are seated there.