Xtrazsteve Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 33 minutes ago, drum118 said: I have yet to see 4444 out of the Barns since it arrived. Still inside where has been for most of the time I have seen it. 4445 has just left the Barns for the 2nd time today. I seen it moving on it own power getting to the Barns on Queen St when it arrived. It moves AFAIK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodbineSecondExit Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, drum118 said: I have yet to see 4444 out of the Barns since it arrived. Still inside where has been for most of the time I have seen it. 4445 has just left the Barns for the 2nd time today. As posted in the Flexity delivery thread I saw 4444 at Nathan Phillips Square last Wednesday doing its burn in phase very early in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said: As posted in the Flexity delivery thread I saw 4444 at Nathan Phillips Square last Wednesday doing its burn in phase very early in the morning. If 4444 gets out after 1 am to 7 am, don't see anything these past few weeks since I am a sleep. 4444 was out in the yard about 30 minutes ago and assume it could go out for testing or was ready to enter service tomorrow. It now back in the service bay. It will not be the first that taken a few weeks to get into service and most likely not the last. 8-10 days has been the norm for a car to go into service after arrival. September 14, 2017 was the day 4444 arrived with 4445 arriving September 19, 2017. Mean while 4445 is burning up St Clair and wouldn't be surprise to see it in service by Friday or the weekend. That would be 10 days after arrival. 4446 should be arriving any day now, but will it be a Sept or Oct delivery? If 4446 is here by Friday, then TTC will only be short 2 cars as schedule for Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrazsteve Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 If they can't ship 4447 this month meaning they can't even ship 4, there is no hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttc rider Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, drum118 said: 4446 should be arriving any day now, but will it be a Sept or Oct delivery? 4446 arrived today, presumably it was off-loaded as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 hour ago, ttc rider said: 4446 arrived today, presumably it was off-loaded as well. Thanks If it arrived at CP yard today and depending when, will be at Hillcrest tomorrow for off loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrazsteve Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 4444 didn't go out last night wither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Xtrazsteve said: 4444 didn't go out last night wither. I ended up being up all night dealing with drivers and software issues and 4444 was still in the same place it was 24 hours earlier. Seeing it at Hillcrest and then on St Clair was a first for me since it arrived. It was a short stay up there and back to the yard. The GPS has it out on Lake Ontario south of the CNE at this time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus_7246 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 4444 did actually go out today. Between 9:30am to a little after 3pm, she was out on burn in run. (Odd for a weekday midday run, but it did go out for a bit). 4445 is almost done. She will make her debut service run soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttc rider Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 48 minutes ago, bus_7246 said: 4444 did actually go out today. Between 9:30am to a little after 3pm, she was out on burn in run. (Odd for a weekday midday run, but it did go out for a bit). 4445 is almost done. She will make her debut service run soon. Thanks for the info. Can you tell us the exact day car 4446 was off-loaded at Hillcrest? Was it yesterday, the 27th or today, the 28th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 4 hours ago, bus_7246 said: 4444 did actually go out today. Between 9:30am to a little after 3pm, she was out on burn in run. (Odd for a weekday midday run, but it did go out for a bit). 4445 is almost done. She will make her debut service run soon. Both cars are heading to St Clair now. 4444 GPS has had it either in Lake Ontario, Durham or the northern part of York after it return today until an hour ago. 4445 has done more than its burn in requirements unless something going on, as its been out most of the last 24 hours hours with a few hours at the Barn a few hours ago. Looks like either the weekend or Monday for 4445, with a chance 4444 going into service as well, around Monday. Based on the hours 4445 been out, was sure it would be Friday, but being out for all almost the last 24 hours saids no. First time 2 cars being burn in out at the same time on the same line. Not odd to see the cars out midday during the week for burn in, as I caught 2 on different routes at different time this past year to get both a photo and video of them. Update: 1:00 am, heading to bed, but 4444 is having problems. It only made it to St Clair and is currently sitting southbound on Bathurst a few car length north of Burnside Dr for the last 25 minutes. It has to be since it was in front of 4445 and 4445 on St Clair eastbound, east of Old Weston Rd. Then maybe the GPS is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Just so as to add some background on overall deliveries for 2017 as of September 29th . The number of Flexity promised for the year 2017 was 40. TTC Flexity Streetcars Actual Deliveries per Month year/month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Total 2017 0 2 1 1 3 2 3 2 2 16 2018 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed T. Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Robert James said: Just so as to add some background on overall deliveries for 2017 as of September 29th . The number of Flexity promised for the year 2017 was 40. TTC Flexity Streetcars Actual Deliveries per Month year/month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Total 2017 0 2 1 1 3 2 3 2 2 16 2018 2019 So obviously we will be getting eight per month in October, November, and December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I sincerely hope so, but I'm prepared to adjust my expectations, as I have been for the last couple of years. However, what does it say about the organization that its European factories are so much better in respecting delivery deadlines? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 17 hours ago, Robert James said: However, what does it say about the organization that its European factories are so much better in respecting delivery deadlines? It says that it's building a product that they haven't built before in a manner or location that they haven't built before with people who have never built anything like this before, and that some time is going to be necessary before they figure it all out. Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dowlingm Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 20 hours ago, Robert James said: I sincerely hope so, but I'm prepared to adjust my expectations, as I have been for the last couple of years. However, what does it say about the organization that its European factories are so much better in respecting delivery deadlines? There was a big article about Sahagun in the Globe I think? Issues with the welding set up (Germans didn't stay long enough) with retaining trained welders and an overcomplicated welding procedure which was later simplified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Smallspy makes a reasonable point. I get it. It`s just frustrating. Recognizing a learning curve in the production of new product should have been part of the planning when bidding on the contract in the first place. That a company pledges a certain performance when accepting a contract implies that they have undertaken all due diligence to assure themselves of the ability to do so. Not to have done so is disingenuous, and i would go so far as to say dishonest, if the result of their misrepresentation was their being awarded a contract, the terms of which that they were not yet able to deliver, to the detriment to buyer in good faith, in this case the TTC, and broadly speaking, the citizens of the City of Toronto. If they would have conceded at the get go that they would have needed an extra year to get all the pieces lined-up throughout their organization, and provide the proper training required by its workers to properly produce and fabricate all the necessary components, well that would been far more acceptable to the citizenry of this city. Dowlingm`s insightful observation is clearly appreciated and exemplifies a process of problem solving when faced with the challenge of the welding procedure that should have taken place prior to the beginning of production by experienced engineering department. Surely, the productions of streetcars throughout the industry have more in common then otherwise, and the engineering of the production process should have anticipated the challenges based on along history of streetcar production throughout the years. Part of what was being purchased by the TTC was an implicit trust in the competence and experience of those charged with designing the Flexity. Trail by error is not the most efficient process when fabricating a streetcar. Furthermore, doesn't this sort of trouble shooting take place digitally in some clever computer program prior to fabrication in our day in age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus_7246 Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 The chart needs a minor update. 4446 is actually a September delivery. The car was offloaded and arrived at Leslie Barns yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodbineSecondExit Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Robert James said: Smallspy makes a reasonable point. I get it. It`s just frustrating. Recognizing a learning curve in the production of new product should have been part of the planning when bidding on the contract in the first place. That a company pledges a certain performance when accepting a contract implies that they have undertaken all due diligence to assure themselves of the ability to do so. Not to have done so is disingenuous, and i would go so far as to say dishonest, if the result of their misrepresentation was their being awarded a contract, the terms of which that they were not yet able to deliver, to the detriment to buyer in good faith, in this case the TTC, and broadly speaking, the citizens of the City of Toronto. If they would have conceded at the get go that they would have needed an extra year to get all the pieces lined-up throughout their organization, and provide the proper training required by its workers to properly produce and fabricate all the necessary components, well that would been far more acceptable to the citizenry of this city. Dowlingm`s insightful observation is clearly appreciated and exemplifies a process of problem solving when faced with the challenge of the welding procedure that should have taken place prior to the beginning of production by experienced engineering department. Surely, the productions of streetcars throughout the industry have more in common then otherwise, and the engineering of the production process should have anticipated the challenges based on along history of streetcar production throughout the years. Part of what was being purchased by the TTC was an implicit trust in the competence and experience of those charged with designing the Flexity. Trail by error is not the most efficient process when fabricating a streetcar. Furthermore, doesn't this sort of trouble shooting take place digitally in some clever computer program prior to fabrication in our day in age? Saying sorry might be valid if this was the first order with Sahagun issues but I don't think it is and there's the question of how much rope is a fair amount? We're over 3 years in and almost 1/4 through the order, what's enough? 5 years and 1/2 of the order? 7 years and 3/4? The main issues according to the media reports seem to stem from the revolving door staffing in Sahagun and that's entirely within Bombardier's control and blame is fully deserved imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMATAC40LF Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I saw 4444 doing a burn in run along St. Clair W at around 7:30 tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I agree with Woodbine Second Exit. Still, the time for liftoff is now according to schedule. Every delay from this point on will become impossible to be made up if all deliveries are to be made by the end of 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 14 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said: I saw 4444 doing a burn in run along St. Clair W at around 7:30 tonight. Got back in to Town last night and noticed it was out. It currently on 512 now doing burn in. What got me was 4444 and 4445 were in the yard Friday night and look like they were ready for service only to see 4444 going into the service bay on Sat. 4445 was in the service and still is since Sat night. 4444 has done more burn in the last 72 hours since it arrived 2 weeks ago. Maybe 1 or both will see service Monday, but it will be this week for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 TTC Flexity Deliveries per Month Schedule year/month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Total 2017 0 2 1 1 3 2 3 2 2 1 17 2018 2019 According to Dowlingm, 4447 is ready for shipping, Sunday October 1st. So far so good in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 38 minutes ago, Robert James said: TTC Flexity Deliveries per Month Schedule year/month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Total 2017 0 2 1 1 3 2 3 2 2 1 17 2018 2019 According to Dowlingm, 4447 is ready for shipping, Sunday October 1st. So far so good in October. 4447 & 4448 are Sept Cars. 4449 will be the first Oct car and 4453 will be the last one. Don't expect to see 9 cars this month to bring schedule back on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Yes indeed Drum18, you're quite right. Still, the road back to being on schedule has to start somewhere. Maybe this is beginning of a winning streak, although i wouldn't bet the farm on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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