Streetcar News

[Shaun]

So it looks like they are going to move some production to Quebec, and moving it away from Mexico. 

http://www.cp24.com/news/bombardier-to-further-reduce-ttc-streetcar-deliveries-in-2016-1.2873649

[TTCOpITM]

4419 is here

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

Don't tap for short turns. They still have to get this set up.

My guess is that they won't ever pull it off. I was talking to someone in Presto, who were looking into some errors on my account, and they seemed surprised when I commented that short-turns happened frequently.

Someone, the person I spoke to, seemed to think it was a rare event, and wasn't even aware that some short-turns are scheduled.

This isn't going to work for buses. Let's say a 35S to Finch or 39S to McCowan garage run (these are very common). There would be tons of people waiting that the short turn destination. How does the next bus driver tell who paid their fare when buses aren't using POP.

[nfitz]

41 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This isn't going to work for buses. Let's say a 35S to Finch or 39S to McCowan garage run (these are very common). There would be tons of people waiting that the short turn destination. How does the next bus driver tell who paid their fare when buses aren't using POP.

They'd have transfers. Just like they do now.

[Xtrazsteve]

23 minutes ago, nfitz said:

They'd have transfers. Just like they do now.

And when they eventually dump paper transfers?

[nfitz]

 

6 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

And when they eventually dump paper transfers?

They've said they are still working on implementing transfers after short-turns. Presumably a precursor to dumping paper transfers is getting them to work electronically.

[Xtrazsteve]

7 minutes ago, nfitz said:

 

They've said they are still working on implementing transfers after short-turns. Presumably a precursor to dumping paper transfers is getting them to work electronically.

I really hope this is going to work. I have doubts.

[skyfirenet]

5 hours ago, Shaun said:

So it looks like they are going to move some production to Quebec, and moving it away from Mexico. 

http://www.cp24.com/news/bombardier-to-further-reduce-ttc-streetcar-deliveries-in-2016-1.2873649

Unfortunately, the joke about Bombardier using a 120 day month turned out to be a lot closer to the truth than it should have been since they are now promising only 16 more before the end of the year.

[nfitz]

I've been saying for a good year or so - I don't think they can ever get Presto to get close enough to TTC transfer rules.

Ultimately, I think that staff push harder for 2-hour transfer, and pretend this never happened.

 

 

[Xtrazsteve]

49 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I've been saying for a good year or so - I don't think they can ever get Presto to get close enough to TTC transfer rules.

Ultimately, I think that staff push harder for 2-hour transfer, and pretend this never happened.

 

 

They might as well setup a presto refund website for all the problems that's going to occur.

[ttc rider]

6 hours ago, TTCOpITM said:

4419 is here

Thanks for the update.

 

1 hour ago, skyfirenet said:

Unfortunately, the joke about Bombardier using a 120 day month turned out to be a lot closer to the truth than it should have been since they are now promising only 16 more before the end of the year.

Do we really believe in this new "schedule"? This is getting farcical. 

[nfitz]

49 minutes ago, ttc rider said:

Thanks for the update.

 

Do we really believe in this new "schedule"? This is getting farcical. 

This one sounds realistic. 12 streetcars last year and 16 this year.

Meanwhile, start an assembly line in Quebec to make the frames. The article talks about this being in addition to Mexico ... though I have to think at the end of the day this means that production leaves Mexico.

I have to wonder if that plant has any future. Second assembly line - I'd think you'd just move the tooling to Quebec, and they don't want to say too much until they get the remaining almost finished product out of Mexico.

[andyman]

10 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This is going to be very problematic with the bus network. It seems like TTC wants this to be an automatic system based on GPS.

Especially for express to local bus transfers. Transferring from the 39 to 199 is allowed or vice versa (in case people got on the wrong bus, people wanted to go to STC/Morningside Heights, going on the rocket for faster service, etc.). There must be a way the operator can tell the presto reader what route it's operating.

In the case of multiple branches, if a rider boarded the 32C instead of 32A, 37A instead of 37B, 43B instead of 43A, 52G instead of 52A/B/D, 86D instead of 86A/C, 116A instead of 116C, etc. then they'll have to tap on another bus on the same route. This is allowed as ops understand the situation with transfers but presto might screw up and double charge the already confused rider.

An extension to the multiple branch problem. Then there are those buses like the 32D and 52G which doesn't go all the way to Yonge Street. With paper transfers, you can transfer anywhere. People do so at Marlee case they don't have to walk across the bus terminal and that's perfectly fine. Presto disallows this. Sometimes the 32D or 52G doesn't make it to the station. With paper transfers, you can always take other 32's/52's to Keele or Jane and transfer to them. It's rare that people do this (cause mostly people are clueless waiting at the station). Would presto allow this, doesn't seem like it.

Of course the short turns. Do we tap or no? Seems like presto is making everything much more difficult on top of the already confusing transfer system.

Same with transfer between 45A and 45B.

[skyfirenet]

2 hours ago, ttc rider said:

Do we really believe in this new "schedule"? This is getting farcical. 

Considering how low the bar is with the new schedule, I think we've hit the point where failing to achieve it would trigger the termination of the contract and the search for a new streetcar manufacturer.

 

[FlyerD901]

I don't think so. They would probably be saying the same thing as they do now. "just get us those streetcars". Nothing new. I hope BBD delivers less than 16 for the year, how low can they go. 

[skyfirenet]

6 minutes ago, FlyerD901 said:

how low can they go. 

We all know the answer to that; they fail to meet their target and demand more money.

[FlyerD901]

What i really want to see as well, is how far will this 51 Million lawsuit go. 

[jordankcw]

2 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

What i really want to see as well, is how far will this 51 Million lawsuit go. 

I'd be real shock if they don't increase the monetary value up, cause it has got be more than $51 million in losses 

[skyfirenet]

53 minutes ago, jordankcw said:

I'd be real shock if they don't increase the monetary value up, cause it has got be more than $51 million in losses 

It depends on how many "free" streetcars Bombardier is willing to build and how many CLRV's and ALRV's will now have to be rebuilt.

[smallspy]

7 hours ago, skyfirenet said:

It depends on how many "free" streetcars Bombardier is willing to build and how many CLRV's and ALRV's will now have to be rebuilt.

What makes you think that we're going to get any "free" streetcars out of Bombardier?

 

Dan

[skyfirenet]

11 minutes ago, smallspy said:

What makes you think that we're going to get any "free" streetcars out of Bombardier?

 

Dan

Because at the rate they are going, they would have to deal with the cost of building additional streetcars much further off in the future in comparison to paying the damages from the lawsuit.

Of course, there is the growing question of whether the TTC is going to expand the expanded order beyond 60 streetcars which would make it worthwhile to find another supplier.

 

[nfitz]

58 minutes ago, smallspy said:

What makes you think that we're going to get any "free" streetcars out of Bombardier?

If you were Bombardier, would you prefer to pay $50 million, or provide $50 million of product.

The TTC board has already directed staff to seek compensation from Bombardier in terms of additional streetcars.

What makes you think Bombardier would sooner pay cash?

[soo8513]

Does MetroLinx (or TTC) have other contracts pending with Bombardier - GO coaches, LRT units, and the like that might have a huge impact on Bombardier if they were placed elsewhere and have those contracts have added penalty clauses that might be inacted soon?

[smallspy]

3 hours ago, skyfirenet said:

Because at the rate they are going, they would have to deal with the cost of building additional streetcars much further off in the future in comparison to paying the damages from the lawsuit.

Of course, there is the growing question of whether the TTC is going to expand the expanded order beyond 60 streetcars which would make it worthwhile to find another supplier.

 

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

If you were Bombardier, would you prefer to pay $50 million, or provide $50 million of product.

The TTC board has already directed staff to seek compensation from Bombardier in terms of additional streetcars.

What makes you think Bombardier would sooner pay cash?

 

I'm not suggesting that Bombardier would rather pay cash - Bombardier would sooner pay nothing at all if they could help it.

 

But I do know that there are things going on behind the scenes that don't involve either cash or new streetcars. I guess we'll see what happens when they're ready to make the annoucement - like the one Bombardier made yesterday. Maybe much like yesterday, the TTC will force their hand on that one, too.

 

35 minutes ago, soo8513 said:

Does MetroLinx (or TTC) have other contracts pending with Bombardier - GO coaches, LRT units, and the like that might have a huge impact on Bombardier if they were placed elsewhere and have those contracts have added penalty clauses that might be inacted soon?

 

The TTC has the last couple of TR subway cars still to arrive, and seem to be quite happy with how those are proceeding, despite the initial teething pains.

 

Bombardier is continuing to ship Metrolinx new cab cars (and to be followed by new coaches) at a fast-and-furious rate, so there's nothing there. The only thing that looks like it may/will be affected is the delivery of the LRTs for the Crosstown/Finch West/Sheppard East/Ion lines, which are manufactured in the same basic methods as the TTC's cars.

 

Dan

[skyfirenet]

Just repeating something already posted. Move along.

Edited April 26, 2016 by skyfirenet