Winnipeg Transit and area

[doug_oak]

There is a word going around that once the small buses are gone transit will get some 35ft buses

There is no indication in the recent 5 year tender call for new buses that WT is to acquire any 35 footers - see post 1915 above.

[DavidW]

There is no indication in the recent 5 year tender call for new buses that WT is to acquire any 35 footers - see post 1915 above.

I'll have to agree with doug_oak here. From all the indications I'm getting there is significant internal disinterest in buying any more 30 or 35 ft buses.

[MVTArider]

I'll have to agree with doug_oak here. From all the indications I'm getting there is significant internal disinterest in buying any more 30 or 35 ft buses.

The only reason for a system like WT to buy 30' or 35' is for any routes that cannot accommodate a 40', or if there is a reasonable number of routes which do fine with a shorter bus, and parking space in the garage is limited. (Park 4 30' in the space of 3 40') Otherwise it costs about the same to operate each size, and capital costs aren't that big of a deal when you're comparing a 35' heavy-duty to a 40' heavy-duty. On the other side getting rid of the 30' group altogether can make run cutting and blocking much simpler and more efficient as there might be cases where a 40' coming from one route can be sent onto another route that may have previously been assigned to a 30'.

[armorand]

Don't forget ridership! Routes 82, 84, 86, the DART's late at night... along with how the Downtown Spirit routes would become nearly impossible with a 40-foot bus. Same with Route 95 in Fort Route.

[DavidW]

So I've been corresponding with 311 about erroneous route pamphlet (and website pdf) maps and hitting a stone wall. Someone inside Transit apparently is telling 311 that I'm wrong and their materials are right, but I don't think so.

[1]. Route 49 Dugald

Late in 2013 (or maybe early winter 2014) the route was changed to drop the service on Warman Road. The route map in the current paper pamphlet, and the pdf map on the website are still wrong. Interestingly, the interactive google-based map is correct.

Erroneous map from website pdf (and paper pamplet). I have marked the correction needed in red.

[2] Routes 68 Crescent and 99

On 31 August 2014 the inbound trips on both of these routes were rerouted through Harkness Station. It's a minor route change (and there was no schedule change), but the route maps were not changed on the website or in the paper route pamphlets. Again, the google-based interactive maps on the website are correct.

Route 68. Map showing reroute from Transit's "What's New" page

, and erroneous map from route's web page

. The erroneous map is also included in the paper pamphlet.

Route 99. Map showing reroute from Transit's "What's New" page

, and erroneous map from route's web page

. The erroneous map is also included in the paper pamphlet.

[ygk]

So I've been corresponding with 311 about erroneous route pamphlet (and website pdf) maps and hitting a stone wall. Someone inside Transit apparently is telling 311 that I'm wrong and their materials are right, but I don't think so.

They don't seem to care very much about their route maps and timetables. When was the last time they redesigned them...maybe 15 years ago?

On the back they don't mention that they have a customer service centre open at the library, plus it also still describes the "Power Hour Transfer".

68 route diagram - it looks like Osborne meets Broadway between Sherbrook and Maryland. I could see an out of towner getting confused if they didn't have another map.

The 99 route diagram is probably the most out of scale map I've ever seen. The distance from Confusion Corner to Windermere looks like a short jog. It also doesn't have any connecting routes.

...and these are only two route maps!

[MVTArider]

Don't forget ridership! Routes 82, 84, 86, the DART's late at night... along with how the Downtown Spirit routes would become nearly impossible with a 40-foot bus. Same with Route 95 in Fort Route.

Impossible; as in a 40' wouldn't be able to fit down the streets along those routes, or just that there would be empty seats? If it's empty seats then again, it doesn't really matter, as the operating cost remains the same.

So I've been corresponding with 311 about erroneous route pamphlet (and website pdf) maps and hitting a stone wall. Someone inside Transit apparently is telling 311 that I'm wrong and their materials are right, but I don't think so.

Interesting, you would think they would just make the corrections. The errors seem obvious enough.

On a side note, at least WT has otherwise decent route maps, check this sorry excuse of a transit schedule/map out: http://www.eastchicago.com/page10/page90/page125/index.html

I found that a while back when checking out Indiana and Illinois system sizes. (Incidentally the EasyGo connections noted no longer operate as that system shut down a while ago.) Of course my favorite to date is one small system in Iowa that for a while had only a rough ArchGIS drawn system map, and multiple references to see individual route schedules for more information, and absolutely no route schedule document or link to one on the site anywhere

[MAX BRT]

No surprise: NFI beats Nova bus to sell 58 new buses to WT.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/transit-buys-58-new-flyer-buses-274574981.html

Winnipeg Transit originally put out a tender for 64 buses. New Flyer put the price for the larger order at $30.17 million versus Nova Bus' price of $31.19 million.

Transit said it opted to lower the number of buses in the order because the responding bids were higher than expected.

[BusRider]

No surprise: NFI beats Nova bus to sell 58 new buses to WT.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/transit-buys-58-new-flyer-buses-274574981.html

Winnipeg Transit originally put out a tender for 64 buses. New Flyer put the price for the larger order at $30.17 million versus Nova Bus' price of $31.19 million.

Transit said it opted to lower the number of buses in the order because the responding bids were higher than expected.

Haha, I misread that as Nova being awarded the contract and had my drink go up my nose...

I'm wondering if these are going to be Xcelsiors or the same old D40LFR.

[123456789]

XD40 they don't even make the LFR anymore

[MVTArider]

Winnipeg Transit originally put out a tender for 64 buses. New Flyer put the price for the larger order at $30.17 million versus Nova Bus' price of $31.19 million.

Transit said it opted to lower the number of buses in the order because the responding bids were higher than expected.

Neck and neck basically. I'm sure if NFI wasn't headquartered there, and transit wanted Novas, they could've easily justified the extra million pricetag due to something or other being better in the Nova offer.

[DavidW]

Impossible; as in a 40' wouldn't be able to fit down the streets along those routes, or just that there would be empty seats? If it's empty seats then again, it doesn't really matter, as the operating cost remains the same.

I believe that all of Winnipeg Transit's regular service routes, even those routinely operated with 30' buses, can and have been operated by 40' buses at one point or another. This past summer on one extremely hot day the Downtown Spirit routes were operated with air conditioned 40-footers.

The one set of services that I think would be impossible to operate with 40' buses are the Dial-A-Ride-Transit (DART) routes. These services provide demand-responsive door-to-door service in low-demand periods (mostly late evenings, Sundays) in a few neighbourhoods. It's not uncommon to see the DART buses darting up and down residential streets, making U-turns and other tight radius maneuvers to dynamically route between their pick-ups and drop-offs. I have often seen the St. Boniface DART run up to the door of the Shoppers Drug Mart in the Dominion Centre on Goulet at St. Mary's. I think that would be very difficult with a full size bus.

[armorand]

Haha, I misread that as Nova being awarded the contract and had my drink go up my nose...

I'm wondering if these are going to be Xcelsiors or the same old D40LFR.

Copying and Pasting this from my post in another forum I commented on. I did the math about a week ago.

Math:

Quote:

2. That the Director of Transit be authorized to issue a purchase order for 58 Heavy-Duty 40

Ft. Low Floor Transit Buses in the amount of $27,343,056.00, GST and MRST extra as

applicable

27,343,056/58 = $471,432

471,432/1.05 (GST) = $448,982.86 (rounded)

The price certainly suggests Xcelsior, versus the $300k range of the D40LFR.

[MiExpress]

Copying and Pasting this from my post in another forum I commented on. I did the math about a week ago.

Math:

Quote:

2. That the Director of Transit be authorized to issue a purchase order for 58 Heavy-Duty 40

Ft. Low Floor Transit Buses in the amount of $27,343,056.00, GST and MRST extra as

applicable

27,343,056/58 = $471,432

471,432/1.05 (GST) = $448,982.86 (rounded)

The price certainly suggests Xcelsior, versus the $300k range of the D40LFR.

So a D40LFR is almost $100,000 or more cheaper than an Xcelsior? Interesting!

Based on previous tenders across North America I have not found this to be the case. At best, the difference is marginal.

Also, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove subtracting GST from the unit price. The text you quote clearly says GST is extra.

[123456789]

My gf said she saw 822 at new flyer

[armorand]

Spotted an unknown 700-series being towed at EB Ellice around the Arlington area last night, just before 12am. Appears to have stalled.

[DavidW]

Four weeks after inbound #68 and #99 buses were rerouted to pass through Harkness Station, tiles containing their numbers have not yet been added to the bus stop sign on the northbound platform of the station.

[123456789]

154 lost its bike rack

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

154 lost its bike rack

I will let them know it's in your home...

[armorand]

I was out getting photos the other day... swore I may have gotten 154 at some point. I'll check and see.

[MVTArider]

In case anyone's interested, I finally got around to editing and uploading my remaining footage from Winnipeg in April:

Reviewing the footage and marking stops on the 160, it's an interesting line to follow, very sluggish going through downtown on Graham, but heavy boardings, then it zooms down the transitway, and goes back to a local service mode. It'll be great to see the transitway extended someday, but in the meantime providing a faster ride between downtown and Pembina Hwy seems to be benefiting a lot of folks. Also I think I got most of the stops on 160 correct, I based it mostly off the WT Google Map and streetview, so there may be some inaccuracies that stand out to those who regularly ride the line.

[Mark Walton]

You can read it here, starting at page 8 of the 22-page PDF file (or may be 9 of 23, depending on how the file loads), Attachment A. If it doesn,t open right away, scroll down in the small window above to "Reports, then click "1. Transit Bylaw". You can drag the surrounding text boxes aside.

Another oddity: the proposed bylaw requires people to wear shirts fully covering their torsos "above and below the waist" aboard buses, but apparently not shoes (7(3)). When I lived there, 1967-73, in the summer I'd fairly often see mostly teenagers riding buses barefoot - and sometimes did it myself! No one ever said anything about it.

The new transit bylaw 89/2014 appears to have passed quietly July 16, with some of the controversial language about "live musical performance" (7)(1)(h) and dress (7)(3) re-worded. Again you can drag the surrounding text boxes aside.

[YWGjets]

This morning I rode the 99 from Pembina@Taylor to Smith@Portage for the first time since the extra loop through Harkness was added. It seems to take 6 or 7 minutes to make the new loop. The bus must now sit in traffic in the curb lane on Donald prior to turning on to Stradbrook where it must contend with congestion and traffic lights as it loops through the BRT to River and onto the Midtown bridge. All passenger movements this morning were at the stop on Stradbrook, nobody got on or off on the Harkness platform.

The bus was more or less on time when it picked me up at Taylor, but was showing 8:25 late when I got off at Portage (partly due to congestion on Pembina).

It's not possible to draw conclusions based on a single observation, but this morning's run suggests there was little benefit to the new detour through Harkness station. Surely the added trip time is much greater then the added time it would take for connecting passengers to walk the extra 200m to Donald.

[DavidW]

This morning I rode the 99 from Pembina@Taylor to Smith@Portage for the first time since the extra loop through Harkness was added. It seems to take 6 or 7 minutes to make the new loop. The bus must now sit in traffic in the curb lane on Donald prior to turning on to Stradbrook where it must contend with congestion and traffic lights as it loops through the BRT to River and onto the Midtown bridge. All passenger movements this morning were at the stop on Stradbrook, nobody got on or off on the Harkness platform.

The bus was more or less on time when it picked me up at Taylor, but was showing 8:25 late when I got off at Portage (partly due to congestion on Pembina).

It's not possible to draw conclusions based on a single observation, but this morning's run suggests there was little benefit to the new detour through Harkness station. Surely the added trip time is much greater then the added time it would take for connecting passengers to walk the extra 200m to Donald.

The change to the route was very minor. Route 99 buses already turned right off of northbound Donald, served the stop on Stradbrook, eastbound, and then turned north on Harkness and west on River (another stop) before turning right back onto northbound Donald over the Midtown bridge. I believe most of the congestion you describe was already part of the route.

I do notice that the 99 and 68 route numbers have not been added to the bus stop sign eastbound at Harkness Station (and the stop on Stradbrook has not been moved west closer to Donald as I had heard it would be) so maybe Transit Tom is not so sure about the diversion through Harkness Station either. Transit is usually much more prompt on making sign and stop changes. It's now nearly two months since the change and it's still not reflected on the signage.

[YWGjets]

My mistake then, I thought the whole loop was new (don't travel that way often). Nonetheless, the whole loop up Stradbrook/River seems inefficient if today's experience is any indication.