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  1. MiWay's training department as well as the union health and safety committee began conducting testing runs at Kipling in mid-October. While there has been much speculation about the date, the current board period (October 26-December 20) schedules and driver crewing is based on service to Islington Station, as is the 2 week holiday board period (December 21-January 3). However, the schedules for the January 4, 2021 board period are based on operating from Kipling Station. Given that MiWay's move to Kipling Station comes with a host of routing and schedule changes, a move to Kipling in the middle of a board period would be awkward. Many of the routes will also have buses eliminated due to the shorter routing and this impacts driver crewing. Given those factors, I think it's fair to speculate that service to Kipling will begin on January 4 with the start of a new board period. However, that is just my opinion based on the situation and it's entirely possible service could begin on a different date than that, with 'interim' schedules and a lot of confusion!
  2. Above all, a wiki is supposed to be based on fact. If a VIN is added to a VIN page without any owner or operator information attached to it is it really a fact? Personally, I do not think so and VINs without any confirmed owner or operator should not be added to the VIN pages for that simple reason. If information inputted has to come with the caveat that it could be subject to error or incorrect then it shouldn't be on the wiki to begin with. Nothing precludes anyone from documenting information on their own and then adding it to the wiki once enough additional information is found. I realize this may be a slippery slope, but it's not as slippery than allowing information that is incomplete or incorrect. Using databases to find VINs has been very useful however like with any information the balance of probabilities should be considered. In cases like this, there is additional supporting information such as a license plate used to find the VIN, verification from fleet rosters, photos of the bus, etc. and in that case there is enough supporting information that the balance of probabilities has been met. The VIN will thus have a owner/operator known and can be added to the wiki as fact. This is different than just trying to find valid VINs in a database, but having no further supporting evidence of owner/operator, or caveats that the information could be erroneous or incorrect. Your overall post began negative, continued negative, and ended negative while assuming the worst case outcome from any changes. As the person that started this thread, I made sure to carefully craft my opening post to make it clear that I wanted to start a discussion on possible ways to change the VIN pages to make it easier to edit. This thread has been up for three months for both editors and non editors to provide input, has had several people reply with differing viewpoints and no decision has been rushed into. While the general consensus may not be what you were expecting that does not necessarily indicate that your suggestions or comments aren't being considered. Nobody on the CPTDB has been left out of voicing their thoughts on the matter. The changes to the VIN pages were proposed as a way to simplify adding information. It was clear that the current process did not work well. Two of the major issues that were bought up were constantly having to change the alternating colours as well as having to input each VIN separately on the pages. Several posters stated that this format discouraged them from adding VINs to the VIN pages; as well there are many existing wiki editors who no longer bother to add or even link the VINs to the pages. All this is a clear sign the current process is not very effective and also resulted in much more work for editors. When we can possibly find consensus on taking a process that used to take a good amount of time and turn it into something that only takes a minute or two to add, while retaining all the necessary information I think it's a change worth discussing and pursuing, regardless of whether it benefits experienced or inexperienced editors. Most importantly, nobody came in with the intention of suggesting that information should be erased from the wiki for the sake of change. Again, this seems to be an assumption of a worst case scenario that nobody has proposed. I've already commented on the issue of VINs without any owner/operator information and overall I think Articulated and others were just trying to point out that the wiki should always be based on fact, as well as ensuring that information is posted in the appropriate place. Even with general consensus to move towards the new formats proposed everyone was prepared to approach it on a case by case basis and I think this is a good indication that there is willingness to compromise. I'll give one suggestion as an example, the Gillig Phantom school bus VIN lists are relatively complete with many VINs linked to owners/operators, and have a lot of info that wouldn't make it elsewhere as there are not pages for all those school districts that operate them. In this case, I would like to make the suggestion that in this case, the Phantom School bus VINs can be placed on one separate page (Phantom school buses use a different x1030000 serial sequence). This would allow for the information including full VIN to be maintained while allowing the Phantom page to be converted to the proposed new VIN page format like the rest of the manufacturers/models.
  3. The term "2nd generation hybrid" is being used as a buzzword by transit systems and even manufacturers to refer to the newer hybrids which are capable of electrically driven accessories, engine stop/start and if specified, capable of electric only operation. MiWay uses this distinction as well, referring to their Orion hybrids as "1st generation" as they do not have electrically driven accessories. However as far as BAE systems is concerned, their "2nd generation" hybrid system was introduced in 2010, when the system was completely redesigned from seperate air cooled components to a "all in one" design that is oil cooled. (Called HDS 200/300). BAE also started using their own alternator system and about 2-3 years later, the "accessory power system" that can be used to electrically power accesories. MiWay's 2010 Orion hybrids were the first to feature this updated system. Since I am not a fan of buzzwords, I think the correct answer is MiWay's 2010 Orion hybrids are 2nd generation, but do not have the electric accessories the later ones do. It's probably more accurate to call it a evolution of the system rather than this "2nd generation" buzzword.
  4. The report presented to the TTC board last week regarding the fleet procurement strategy had a section indicating that TTC would be using the electric-only (EV) mode on the LFS HEVs in the near future. My understanding is the EV mode can be up to 1.5km depending on parameters such as battery charge being met, otherwise the bus will just switch back into normal mode if the parameters aren't met. It appears that the EV mode doesn't result in any fuel savings as the engine then has to work harder to replenish the battery. However it is silent when in operation and would be useful at a lot of the TTC subway stations for example, or even routes that have on street loops in residential areas. MiWay implemented the EV mode on their LFS hybrids a few weeks back, however it is only set to operate within the City Centre Terminal and the garage. MiWay also chose to add additional parameters such as limiting the speed to 10km/h when at the terminal and 15km/h when at the garage, which are the posted speed limits.
  5. There is a report regarding the purchase of transit buses on Monday's council agenda. New Flyer will be awarded the tenders and Sault Ste Marie will be getting 6 XD40s and 4 XD35s. New Flyer was the lower bid for the 40ft buses compared to Nova. For the 35ft buses, both Grande West and City View (ElDorado Axess) bid as well. Pages 94 to 99 - https://saultstemarie.ca/Cityweb/media/City-Clerk/Council-Agendas/2020/2020_10_26_Agenda.pdf?ext=.pdf
  6. Preparations for operating into Kipling Terminal are already being made and MiWay conducted their first test runs into the terminal last week. Regarding the route 26, the route will no longer enter Islington Station, but rather serve the station on street in both eastbound and westbound directions on the way to and from Kipling Terminal which will be the end point and layovers will be taken there. From Burnhamthorpe and Kipling, the eastbound route will be Burnhamthorpe, Cordova, Central Park, Islington, Bloor (serve Islington Station on street at Bloor/Green Lanes), Dundas, Subway Crescent to Kipling Terminal. From Kipiling Terminal, the westbound route will be Dundas, Bloor, Islington (serve Islington Station on street at Islington/Aberfoyle), Cordova, Burnhamthorpe to regular routing. New stops will be placed to accommodate this revised routing. With this change, route 20 will be rerouted off Burnhamthorpe in Etobicoke and instead connect to Kipling Terminal using Highway 427 and Dundas. Route 70 will also use this routing. There are no changes to the other routes currently serving Islington other than revising them to terminate at Kipling Terminal. I've attached a (crude) drawing showing the planned platform allocations once the terminal opens. Bays 3, 14, 15, 16 have been designed to accommodate articulated buses.
  7. There is a MiExpress logo on the driver side below the driver window (see pic attached). As well, the engine access door has a vent on it, and there are exterior cameras. Some minor changes inside. No more reading lights but there are USB power outlets like the Nova LFS HEVs. 53 seats with the rear centre seat blocked off.
  8. The CPTDB wiki is no doubt one of the best sources on the internet to find individual bus VINs. This would be maintained even under the proposed changes, and the test page Kevin L made for the New Flyer Xcelsior VINs. As long as the full VIN exists somewhere in the wiki, such as in the fleet series page, it will come up in search results when entering the VIN in the search. This is one of the main reasons it is not necessary to also duplicate full VINs on the VIN pages, saving editors a lot of time and effort. I too have tried using word processors and the find/replace function but found it was just as cumbersome and time consuming since each individual VIN and fleet number (and all the related background coding) had to be changed manually regardless. On a 3 or 5 bus order it isn't a lot, but on larger 50-100+ orders it is incredibly time consuming. Since you mention this at the end of your post I think you can relate on this point, given your extensive contributions to the wiki. It does not defeat the sense of quality over quantity, in fact moving to the format proposed makes the pages better quality in my opinion. For the reader, it makes the page a lot simpler to read and digest, as well as being a consistent format with virtually every other bus production list out there. For the editor, it makes editing a lot easier and also helps minimize errors on the pages due to copy + paste errors and formatting errors. I cannot support your suggestion of posting the full VIN but leaving the check digit blank, nor can I support your other suggestion of doing this until someone comes around later and expands all the VINs. This will just lead to inconsistency in the pages and make a mess of them. On the subject of check digits, it should be noted check digits are simply a validation of a VIN. Let's consider the reader perspective for a minute. How many readers looking for a VIN, or looking for a New Flyer production list are going to be looking specifically for check digits? Likely next to none, they're more likely to be looking to match a serial number or get a overview of buses produced in a given timeframe. Again, the full VINs including check digits would still be available on the fleet series pages, which would be conveniently linked to in the VIN pages as per Kevin L's New Flyer example. The pages should follow the serial sequence the manufacturers use and it seems there is general agreement on this. The Gillig BRT is a version of the Gillig Low Floor with various styling options. It is no different than say, a New Flyer with a optional roof fairing, or the Orion VII BRT for example. It uses the same serial sequence as the Gillig LF so I feel the Gillig LF and BRT buses should be on the same page (although with model designations added which you've noted below). The BRT model designation can be noted in the model column proposed. Indeed, some sort of automation where a VIN appears on both the fleet series page and the VIN page would be the most ideal solution and if it existed we wouldn't be having this discussion. However (and correct me if I'm wrong) I believe there has been discussion about this in the past but it seems no workable solution has been found. Hence, why we are discussing the possibility of making changes to make it easier to edit. I agree on this, and this also goes for all the other pages. The specific model being listed on the page is helpful. After thinking about it I can agree that grouping the Gillig data by year rather than my proposed serial range is ok. It will keep things consistent and make it easy for editors. I can also agree with your format to keep the 29' and 35/40' data on the same page but separate tables. However, I still strongly believe that Gillig LF and Gillig BRT data should be on the same page as they share the same serial sequence. This is the same format that is being proposed (and tested) for New Flyer and other manufacturers. Overall, I have no issues with the test pages Kevin L has created and I still support moving in that direction.
  9. @mikenoza Regarding the XDE60 buses, they are currently in production at New Flyer and delivery should begin anytime soon, likely sometime within the next few weeks. They will have the BAE HybriDrive like all the existing hybrids. They will also have the New Flyer Smart Rider system. However there is a good chance they won't hit the road until 2021, as any incidental things such as training, preparation of new buses etc. has been deferred due to staffing and budget pressures. As for the comments about the 53 being extended to Cooksville, the original MiWay Five plan did have the 53 terminating there however it was deferred due to the construction at the station. I do feel it will be extended there eventually as the current on street loop is not very sufficient from a operations perspective. Regardless of the routing, the round trip time (RTT) will increase so either the frequency gets reduced with less buses or an additional bus gets added. The current 35 minute midday and evening service (70 min RTT, 2 buses) can probably be adjusted to 40 minutes (80 min RTT) without adding any resources as ridership was light even before the pandemic. If peak ridership eventually returns to pre-pandemic levels then a extra bus would likely be required to avoid the existing 20-22 minute frequency being reduced (80-88 min RTT, 4 buses).
  10. Thanks to Kevin L for taking the time to create those pages so we can see what it would look like. Regarding the title, If the manufacturer has used one serial sequence for all models, which New Flyer and most others do, then I think it's better to just title the pages "New Flyer Industries 'L VINs'" as an example. While almost all the manufacturers will be able to be switched to the proposed format, Gillig is a outlier due to the way they assign their serials. While the 35' and 40' low floor models use the same serial sequences regardless of styling or propulsion, they do not necessarily assign serials in order, and go back and use skipped serials even years later. This means a higher serial does not necessarily indicate a newer built bus and it also means that model years are all over the place in the serial sequence. Given this, it may be best to have the Gillig pages done as serial number ranges rather than model year, such as in increments of 10,000. Additionally, the 29' low floor versions use a completely separate serial sequence than the 35' and 40' models and would require their own separate pages. Some further discussion on how to tackle Gillig will probably be necessary before any changes implemented. Perhaps some of the people more experience with Gillig's production lists can chime in. I understand what you're getting at because I do use the VIN pages occasionally for the same reason. That said, It would still be possible with the page format that has been proposed, as the table would be sortable by model (clicking the arrows in the header of the 'model' column) which would make it easy to then see who operates a specific model. As for the length of the page, given that sequential VINs will now be combined (1 row per order) It still wouldn't be as long as some of the existing pages which have hundreds and sometimes even thousands of individual rows on one page.
  11. The recent tender for buses for Simcoe LINX and Midland Transit was awarded to Grande West for 30ft Vicinity buses. Simcoe will receive 3 buses and Midland 1 bus. According to a council report, route 6 Midland-Orillia is still planned to start later this fall but this is based on recieving the rest of the buses from Alexander Dennis, which was delayed due to the pandemic.
  12. There is a report on next week's council agenda to purchase 4 30ft Vicinity diesel buses from Grande West. These 4 buses will be used on route 27 beginning in fall 2021. Grande West and City View (Eldorado) were the only 2 bidders. While pricing was requested for hybrid and electric buses, there was only one bidder for hybrid buses and neither submitted a bid for electric buses.
  13. Thanks for finding that document and confirming the second hand Gillig Low Floors. I've updated the Rogue Valley Transportation District wiki page to reflect this info.
  14. The 90 is being retained as is, MiWay is no longer planning on cancelling the route. It appears this decisions was made in very late 2019/early 2020 based on when updates to the MiWay Five proposed map were made. It's a bit tricky to find with the website redesign but MiWay Five webpage is still up on the MiWay site. After a 4 month absence, MiWay 0341 re-emerged last week with a fully redone exterior, complete with a nice shiny paintjob. It looks really good and I've attached a few photos. They didn't skimp - all 4 sides got repainted, even the doors got fully repainted and new wheel fenders on all wheels. The only thing that wasn't touched was a access panel on the roof that surrounds the exhaust, probably took it off when they started and just put it right back on afterwards. For those of you that follow MiWay you'll know that full repaints like this are rare, as MiWay does their major maintenance work on a 'as needed' basis, not scheduled intervals, and that includes body work. So usually with MiWay you will only see specific sections of the bus repainted if it's been worked on, or only one side of the bus repainted if it's the side that had the body work etc. Even with just body panel replacement often times it is just done in specific sections (past the rear doors, below windows only etc.) As for why 0341 has been repainted at this stage, it has everything to do with MiWay doing their major maintenance work on as needed basis. I wouldn't read anything into it as at this point, the city still plans to replace all the D40LFs in 2021. For example, 0319 received major body work in April-May 2019 which included both driver and passenger sides of the bus being fully repainted, but was retired 2-3 months later after suffering a major mechanical issue - and then there was all the Orion Vs that received major body work and repaints only to retire a year later.
  15. Bradford has a tender out for 3 transit vehicles, I'm assuming to replace the existing 2014 cutaway buses. The specs aren't very detailed but based on price it will probably be mor cutaways. Bradford West Gwillimbury - Supply and Delivery of Three (3) Transit Vehicles
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