Union Pearson Express

[nfitz]

Except there is no GO trains from Weston or Bloor to Union except the AM rush when trains run every 30 minutes. That makes you point invalid and why people are talking about this issue.

Haven't we already discussed in this thread or another that GO is planning on reinstating the mid-day off-peak service to Bramalea (and apparently to Brampton itself) also in 2015?

You should probably know that GO Trains aren't rapid transit. They have very limited runs (Lakeshore line being the exception) and usually unidirectional. You can't just decided that I'll pay a few bucks more and take the GO. Their headway are insanely sparse making the bus ride to the subway faster if you missed a train. Now, if we had a subway like train that ran every 10-15 minutes to Union during most times of the day, that would be much more appealing and can be used as an alternative to TTC subways.

Right now there is a huge distinction between the TTC and Metrolinx. Our system is setup that GO Trains are for commuters in the 905 region. The TTC subways are for commuter/leisure travel within the 416. This type of planning prevents GO Transit from growing with the 416. The main reason is obviously Queen's Park doesn't want to subsidies 416 riders.

The Union Pearson train isn't rapid transit either. It was never intended as such.

[Downsview 108]

Some video and pics of the interior:

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/12/10/proposed-fares-for-union-pearson-express-train-announced/

[Xtrazsteve]

Haven't we already discussed in this thread or another that GO is planning on reinstating the mid-day off-peak service to Bramalea (and apparently to Brampton itself) also in 2015?

The Union Pearson train isn't rapid transit either. It was never intended as such.

UPX isn't rapid transit. We all know that.

I don't think GO service along the Weston Corridor would be anywhere close to 15 minutes in the next few years. It has to be less than 15 minutes to make it an acceptable transfer from the TTC. Unless people live right by the station, it's not that helpful if you have to wait for 20-30 minutes for a train.

[shambala]

The Union Pearson train isn't rapid transit either. It was never intended as such.

Exactly, let's call it for what it really is, elitist transit for the business and well heeled tourist class to travel from downtown to the airport and vice verse.

[Blue Bus Fan]

Why don't they reduce frequency to 30 minutes and reduce the prices for the tickets? I think with that fare the trains are going to 50% full and that is not that good. I think with reduce frequency, cheaper fares this will be better used like 75% full which is a lot better compared to 50 % full.

[Xtrazsteve]

Why don't they reduce frequency to 30 minutes and reduce the prices for the tickets? I think with that fare the trains are going to 50% full and that is not that good. I think with reduce frequency, cheaper fares this will be better used like 75% full which is a lot better compared to 50 % full.

Ummm, for the elites, time is money. If they have to wait 25 minutes to catch the next train, they would have taken the cab instead.

We have time to do joy rides on our favourite bus, they don't.

[nfitz]

I don't think GO service along the Weston Corridor would be anywhere close to 15 minutes in the next few years. It has to be less than 15 minutes to make it an acceptable transfer from the TTC. Unless people live right by the station, it's not that helpful if you have to wait for 20-30 minutes for a train.

I'd expect they'd start at once an hour. That should provide enough capacity initially, and then they can see how ridership goes. It's hard to imagine large off-peak ridership coming from Weston, Etobicoke North, or even Malton. Even Bramalea doesn't have much residential around it. And I doubt Bloor would be any more used than Danforth, which is hardly enough to justify better than hourly service. I really don't think it will have as much demand as the Lakeshore line. Or the Milton Line.

[Xtrazsteve]

I'd expect they'd start at once an hour. That should provide enough capacity initially, and then they can see how ridership goes. It's hard to imagine large off-peak ridership coming from Weston, Etobicoke North, or even Malton. Even Bramalea doesn't have much residential around it. And I doubt Bloor would be any more used than Danforth, which is hardly enough to justify better than hourly service. I really don't think it will have as much demand as the Lakeshore line. Or the Milton Line.

Yeah probably. When it comes to transit, it's better to have two short trains at 30min each than one longer one at 60min. Diesel locomotives would cost a lot more than subway trains using electricity. So they should electrify the line. Of course there wouldn't be a lot of ridership unless there is fare integration with the TTC. Ultimately it should be a free connection between GO Transit and the TTC but if we gone with an additional $1-2 charge to connect with the GO, it will draw in some riders who want to avoid fully packed subway trains.

And that's another thing for this quote:

Why don't they reduce frequency to 30 minutes and reduce the prices for the tickets?

Because it's not attractive to wait so long. People are impatient. I am.

So what the TTC doing with the articulated buses is a very bad idea. They are increasing headway and making their trip time longer. They'll piss everyone off if they put them on the 41 Keele and bring the headway from 7 minutes to 10 minutes.

[Blue Bus Fan]

And that's another thing for this quote:

Because it's not attractive to wait so long. People are impatient. I am.

So what the TTC doing with the articulated buses is a very bad idea. They are increasing headway and making their trip time longer. They'll piss everyone off if they put them on the 41 Keele and bring the headway from 7 minutes to 10 minutes.

But demand for this service is not their, yet because the fare is a complete rip-off. BTW, with the fares being a lower this could help get more revenue to increase service on it when ACTUALLY requires more service along the route.

[DL1892]

But demand for this service is not their, yet because the fare is a complete rip-off. BTW, with the fares being a lower this could help get more revenue to increase service on it when ACTUALLY requires more service along the route.

Really? No demand?

Airport employees will be paying roughly $10 one way full trip, a little over double the price of a go ride from Union to Malton, or 300/month (translates to $7.50 one way). It's the price of convenience.

It's not meant to be a commuter service.

[Gil]

But demand for this service is not there, yet because the fare is a complete rip-off. BTW, with the fares being a lower this could help get more revenue to increase service on it when ACTUALLY requires more service along the route.

The rush to complete the line in time for the Pan Ams and subsequent spinoff visits will probably skew the results for the first year. They're probably banking on that traffic to keep the line in the black for a year or so. What happens after the traffic dies back down is up for discussion. Hopefully the corridor has 2WAD service and some sort of hybrid service between UPX and GO Transit can be worked out.

For all of the cost of UPX, would it not have been a better investment to have spent on improving the corridor in general and then providing some sort of people-mover from Malton to Pearson? They probably could have fast-tracked electrification of the corridor. When 2WAD service does start up, MiWay (or even the GTAA) will probably pick up the slack with bus service between Malton and Pearson for around $8.00 which is far cheaper than UPX. It's a compromise between that service and using the TTC both in terms of price and travel time.

[YYZ Rampdog]

Why would you take it everyday unless you were working at the airport? And if you were, why not use the monthly pass, which isn't much more than the current GO monthly rate to Malton station.

If you are using just Weston or Bloor station, then you'd use the GO trains instead.

There are 150,000 jobs either directly or indirectly related to Pearson. It has to be more than an executive limo.

By the way the airporter bus service was $16 one way and would drop you at major hotels.

Pretty big price hike.

[nfitz]

There are 150,000 jobs either directly or indirectly related to Pearson. It has to be more than an executive limo.

By the way the airporter bus service was $16 one way and would drop you at major hotels.

Pretty big price hike.

$16? The remaining information I can see on the web says $27. Elsewhere I've seen $28 reported. Where do you get $16 from?

[smallspy]

There are 150,000 jobs either directly or indirectly related to Pearson.

Absolutely, and 40,000 of those jobs are at the airport itself. The rest are off-site, and thus are not applicable to any transit service using the airport. Their commutes won't change because of or in spite of UPX.

By the by, by their research, only 3% - 1200 people - commute from downtown. On all modes.

Dan

[nfitz]

By the by, by their research, only 3% - 1200 people - commute from downtown. On all modes.

The Metrolinx report on pricing strategy - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20141211/20141211_BoardMtg_UP_Express_Pricing_Strategy_Staff_Report_EN.pdf show that 3% were using the Airport Express Bus. I don't think it indicates the total that were downtown. Presumably more than 3%, as I expect many would drive.

Is there another document that discusses where people are coming from? If both are 3%, it does seem odd that transit was getting a 100% split.

[YYZ Rampdog]

$16? The remaining information I can see on the web says $27. Elsewhere I've seen $28 reported. Where do you get $16 from?

Oh right that was in 2011 before the GTAA added there fee to the tickets.

From 2011 to 2014 the fare went from $16 to $28.

Every taxi and limo almost has a heafty fee to the GTAA for every ride.

[TheAverageJoe]

Oh right that was in 2011 before the GTAA added there fee to the tickets.

From 2011 to 2014 the fare went from $16 to $28.

Every taxi and limo almost has a heafty fee to the GTAA for every ride.

Price you have to deal with if you want to do business with GTAA.

[Xtrazsteve]

Price you have to deal with if you want to do business with GTAA.

More reasons to fly porters and land at the islands.

[shambala]

So what the TTC doing with the articulated buses is a very bad idea. They are increasing headway and making their trip time longer. They'll piss everyone off if they put them on the 41 Keele and bring the headway from 7 minutes to 10 minutes.

Of course it is. Actually it will be more than 10 mins. because of the slow door operation and slow acceleration from stop and that's just in good weather. Only reason TTC got arctics was to maximize it's labor component. With ever increasing operating costs they want to get the most bang for their labor buck. To hell if they piss everyone off, it's not like it's first time that has happened.

[YYZ Rampdog]

Price you have to deal with if you want to do business with GTAA.

Oh yes the most expensive Airport in the world.

[skyfirenet]

Oh yes the most expensive Airport in the world.

Funny how people keep saying that and yet Pearson is the only airport that doesn't get any government funds.

[shambala]

Funny how people keep saying that and yet Pearson is the only airport that doesn't get any government funds.

Why would it or should it get govt. funds? It's a private entity.

[skyfirenet]

Why would it or should it get govt. funds? It's a private entity.

It shouldn't. However, those who complain about Pearson being the "most expensive" never seem to bring up how much government support those less expensive airports receive.

[nfitz]

Why would it or should it get govt. funds? It's a private entity.

It shouldn't, but at the same time, you can't then compare it to cheaper airports that are government subsidized. Are there any US airports that aren't government subsidized? Often heavily?

[dowlingm]

It's not even that the Feds don't give GTAA money, it's how much they extract in ground rent - about $130m/year. That is before all the income taxes, security taxes and HST they get from airport related enterprises. I haven't heard of any federal contribution to UPX - is anyone else aware of any?