Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[nfitz]

Service expansion (Feb 16) - 65 Parliament morning peak and mid-day headway changed from 18 minutes to 12 minutes. 3 buses on line rather than 2.

That's a welcome change. It's supposed to be part of the 10-minute network, and has long ran every 9 minutes in PM rush. The truth is that only running every 18 minutes, people simply walk to Sherbourne (which runs every 6 minutes). Hopefully getting Parliament to every 10 (presumably every 9 minutes with 4 buses) will make Sherbourne a little less overcrowded.

I certainly noticed that after it dropped from every 16 minutes to every 18 minutes when they changed the run time, that I started riding it much less, as it never seemed to be in the right place when I was coming along 506. (though the improved 504 reliability and return to King E through Corktown has also helped that more recently).

[ttcgeek]

Paging all the armchair transit planners who think Parliament's ridership is too low for any service increases.

That's what I thought. Keep the garbage to yourselves.

[smallspy]

Paging all the armchair transit planners who think Parliament's ridership is too low for any service increases.

That's what I thought. Keep the garbage to yourselves.

They are artificially increasing the service to make it fit with a political pledge - the 10 minute service network. This is the second or third step to meeting that goal. They would have done it sooner if they had the buses available.

So yeah, maybe you should do some reading.

Dan

[ttcgeek]

They are artificially increasing the service to make it fit with a political pledge - the 10 minute service network. This is the second or third step to meeting that goal. They would have done it sooner if they had the buses available.

So yeah, maybe you should do some reading.

Dan

I know that.

I'm referring to a discussion in this thread or another with a few armchair transit planners who claimed that Parliament did not warrant 10 minute service because of the lack of ridership expansion growth. They even threw up some ridership numbers from 2008 and 2012 to support their claim.

[smallspy]

I know that.

I'm referring to a discussion in this thread or another with a few armchair transit planners who claimed that Parliament did not warrant 10 minute service because of the lack of ridership expansion growth. They even threw up some ridership numbers from 2008 and 2012 to support their claim.

But it's true. It doesn't have the ridership to support it.

Just like several other routes, like Cosburn, don't support it. That's why it's a political decision, and not one based on fact.

And with a 2% cut requested by City Hall, political decisions now end up costing the system. Is service on other routes going to have to be cut to pay for the costs of the 10 minute network?

Dan

[Ed T.]

But it's true. It doesn't have the ridership to support it.

Just like several other routes, like Cosburn, don't support it. That's why it's a political decision, and not one based on fact.

And with a 2% cut requested by City Hall, political decisions now end up costing the system. Is service on other routes going to have to be cut to pay for the costs of the 10 minute network?

Dan

Sherbourne is heavily-used and the transfer from the subway to southbound buses is awful. As long as Parliament is significantly less frequent, riders who have a choice will choose Sherbourne. With Parliament more frequent, maybe the loads will even out. Not to mentione the ongoing development in Corktown and the Distillery District and all the other "districts" down there.

Comparing Parliament to Cosburn is disingenuous. As far as I know, there's no development boom in East York. Cosburn runs through a mature mid-rise residential area, and the political decision is to give those residents frequent service. Nothing wrong with that.

If we went only by what the existing ridership justifies, the Cherry Street streetcar wouldn't be built. The idea is to get ahead of demand so that transit is there for residents moving into new buildings. It may be political, but it's also the smart planning du jour.

[dowlingm]

There are several midrise apartment buildings around Cosburn and Logan, which presumably provide the rationale for the morning peak 87B (loop back towards Broadview Stn at Coxwell). Broadview Avenue is getting more and more dense also.

When you consider though that the start date for the 514 has been up in the air in recent months due to TTC not having identified cash to get it going, it does show that politically motivated spending can impact service elsewhere. That said, I'm not sure how much political heft was involved in getting the 87 more service, since Fragedakis and Davis are hardly among the Mayor's group of like minded councillors.

[nfitz]

When you consider though that the start date for the 514 has been up in the air in recent months due to TTC not having identified cash to get it going, it does show that politically motivated spending can impact service elsewhere.

Up in the air? June 19th - I'd assume 121 service would start then too.

[dowlingm]

Up in the air? June 19th - I'd assume 121 service would start then too.

I thought 514 is a Q3 thing, so CNE-ish? http://www.blogto.com/city/2016/02/25_ways_the_ttc_promises_to_improve_in_2016/

[nfitz]

I thought 514 is a Q3 thing, so CNE-ish? http://www.blogto.com/city/2016/02/25_ways_the_ttc_promises_to_improve_in_2016/

At the February 8th public meeting of the Gooderham & Worts Neighbourhood, a presentation by Lawrence Lui of the TTC Planning department said the 514 service would start on June 19th - provided that the board approve it as planned at the March 23rd meeting. Someone at the meeting disclosed that they also said that the 121 bus would start the same day, but only from Fort York to Cherry.

This information was provided in another forum by someone who attended the meeting.

[Xtrazsteve]

Does John Tory have to do a photo op for this kinda stuff: http://www.cp24.com/news/ttc-to-unveil-improved-bus-service-on-dozens-of-routes-tuesday-1.2778886

Some of these changes were actual cutbacks cause they ran out of buses in 2014.

6 Bay still had more buses in AM peak than this improvement.

46 Martin Grove had 10min rush hour headways till they added more time for a detour and decreased headways. Now they are just restoring that level of service.

94 Wellesley had 6min AM rush headways until they added extra running time. Now they are just restoring it back to 6min because they didn't add that extra bus beforehand.

They really shouldn't be bragging about fixing their service reductions with press releases and photo ops.

[ttc rider]

They really shouldn't be bragging about fixing their service reductions with press releases and photo ops.

You're talking about politicians trying to impress upon the general public and the average transit riders how much they care about public transit.

Speaking of transit riders: how many of them do you think keep track of all these little service reductions/additions that the TTC makes every six weeks? Or how many of them even know what a service summary is and where to find it?

[16 McCowan]

I have something that bothers me a little bit. Here are my theoretical questions about some routes with the farthest deadheads to and from their respective divisions.

- Since Wilson runs the 56 LEASIDE, isn't that far to deadhead from Wilson garage to Donlands Stn.? It takes 30 minutes to travel to Donlands to start service everyday although most Wilson routes start at Eglinton Stn.

- Same situation with the 10 VAN HORNE and 169 HUNTINGWOOD, it's also nowhere near Wilson territory. Isn't Malvern or New Eglinton a bit closer to run the route?

- In the most bizarre twist, 75 SHERBOURNE and 82 ROSEDALE are nowhere close to Wilson garage but more like in the Birchmount territory (65, 94, 172)

- 141 DOWNTOWN/MT. PLEASANT EXPRESS is a crazy one since it's the only Mount Dennis route east of Yonge an connects to the 6, I suspect its likely either Wilson or Birchmount.

FlyerD901, leylandvictory2 and Xtrasteve, please take your time to share my opinions about these issues. And kindly please explain the relief points for those routes. Thanks.

[Xtrazsteve]

You're talking about politicians trying to impress upon the general public and the average transit riders how much they care about public transit.

Speaking of transit riders: how many of them do you think keep track of all these little service reductions/additions that the TTC makes every six weeks? Or how many of them even know what a service summary is and where to find it?

Regular riders would know that their route received a service reduction/increase. It's noticeable when buses get more packed and when the wait time is extended by 2 minutes.

I have something that bothers me a little bit. Here are my theoretical questions about some routes with the farthest deadheads to and from their respective divisions.

- Since Wilson runs the 56 LEASIDE, isn't that far to deadhead from Wilson garage to Donlands Stn.? It takes 30 minutes to travel to Donlands to start service everyday although most Wilson routes start at Eglinton Stn.

- Same situation with the 10 VAN HORNE and 169 HUNTINGWOOD, it's also nowhere near Wilson territory. Isn't Malvern or New Eglinton a bit closer to run the route?

- In the most bizarre twist, 75 SHERBOURNE and 82 ROSEDALE are nowhere close to Wilson garage but more like in the Birchmount territory (65, 94, 172)

- 141 DOWNTOWN/MT. PLEASANT EXPRESS is a crazy one since it's the only Mount Dennis route east of Yonge an connects to the 6, I suspect its likely either Wilson or Birchmount.

FlyerD901, leylandvictory2 and Xtrasteve, please take your time to share my opinions about these issues. And kindly please explain the relief points for those routes. Thanks.

Wilson is stuck with all these routes that they shouldn't have. 42 Cummer, 88 South Leaside and 169 Huntingwood to name a few. Wilson used to have routes like 52 Lawrence West, 58 Malton and 60 Steeles West which made more sense until MtD opened and took over all the routes that Wilson had. Wilson had to pick up routes is midtown and pickup the few that can't be done by other divisions. There's no space at Eglinton or Malvern to have the 10 or 169. Bmount have 167 and it really should have it. The 10, 42, 167 and 169 will probably go to McNicoll when that opens along with a few busy corridors like 39 or 53.

There is no downtown garage anymore so the 75 and 82 have to be taken by some route. It only takes about 20 minutes to deadhead from Wilson which is pretty much the same for Malvern to get a bus to Finch Station. It takes more time for Bmount to get a bus to Ossington for the 94.

141 is done by MtD. Again it's almost the same to get the 32 to Eglinton Station for AM but getting back the garage takes longer. The PM runs are interlined with the 32 so the only wasted deadheading time is getting downtown. The 6 usually starts/ends at Dupont and deadhead onto Davenport. It's normal to see a string of NIS buses on Davenport than actual in service 127's at the end of rush hour.

[16 McCowan]

To think what happened 20 years ago today, does anybody have any route assignments by division when Lansdowne Garage closed its doors on February 18, 1996 - the day of the cuts?

It would be appreciated to also post the route assignments dated to the end of 1995.

[Witenite]

I thought 514 is a Q3 thing, so CNE-ish? http://www.blogto.com/city/2016/02/25_ways_the_ttc_promises_to_improve_in_2016/

hopefully it goes to roncy as they are losing bathurst, st clair and continue to cut down on work and moving operators to the east end

[dayone]

And 139 uses the 39 transfer?

Yes it does

[dowlingm]

At the February 8th public meeting of the Gooderham & Worts Neighbourhood, a presentation by Lawrence Lui of the TTC Planning department said the 514 service would start on June 19th - provided that the board approve it as planned at the March 23rd meeting. Someone at the meeting disclosed that they also said that the 121 bus would start the same day, but only from Fort York to Cherry.

This information was provided in another forum by someone who attended the meeting.

thanks!

[FlyerD901]

What about the 72C route, I know the 72C and 172 routes were part of the survey not to long ago. Any changes to those routes

At the February 8th public meeting of the Gooderham & Worts Neighbourhood, a presentation by Lawrence Lui of the TTC Planning department said the 514 service would start on June 19th - provided that the board approve it as planned at the March 23rd meeting. Someone at the meeting disclosed that they also said that the 121 bus would start the same day, but only from Fort York to Cherry.

This information was provided in another forum by someone who attended the meeting.

[nfitz]

What about the 72C route, I know the 72C and 172 routes were part of the survey not to long ago. Any changes to those routes

Good question. If they are staring the 121, one has to think they are at least changing the western terminus of the 172 would change down to Union. But will it extend to Pape? And will the 72 service all stop at Eastern?

Very good questions. I don't know.

[16 McCowan]

Delete post.

[smallspy]

About the 72, the branch still has the 72C designation even though the 72A "Eastern" is no longer scheduled. They even forgot to reletter the 72C to simply 72 since the TTC said if there's is one branch, no letter. Only routes with multiple branches get letters.

You know, for a guy who doesn't apparently leave his house, your researching skills are garbage. You may want to check the TTC's website again. Hint: check all of the tabs under the 72 Pape route.

Dan

[16 McCowan]

You know, for a guy who doesn't apparently leave his house, your researching skills are garbage. You may want to check the TTC's website again. Hint: check all of the tabs under the 72 Pape route.

Dan

Sorry about that. It was a misunderstanding.

I just realized the 72A Pape is only scheduled only on early Sunday mornings. But thanks for your help.

[FlyerD901]

To think what happened 20 years ago today, does anybody have any route assignments by division when Lansdowne Garage closed its doors on February 18, 1996 - the day of the cuts?

It would be appreciated to also post the route assignments dated to the end of 1995.

Time flies. I believe this would be the last time Ops would be able to do both Subway and Buses too. Eglinton had subways too, but not sure what year that ended, either 1993 or 1996. Danforth picked up a bunch of 6300s D40-87

As for route assignments, I'm sure Transit Toronto might have something.

[FlyerD901]

Danforth is up for discussion, or some answers.

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/February_25/Reports/Correspondence_Councillor_McMahon_Status_and_Future_of_Danfo.pdf

I know there was some drawings early last year of redeveloping that area for residential use. This will hopefully make it easier for TTC to declare this site surplus with the Councillor inquiring about it, i'm not sure why TTC is taking so long to give it up. I thought they got this land to lease down by Don Rdwy to replace Danforth.

Alliance is another property by TTC:

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/February_25/Reports/Proposed_Acquisition_of_391_Alliance_Avenue.pdf