smallspy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 If you want a historical/all time roster, this will help: http://www.transitstop.net/TTC%20Vehicles/PCC2.jpg Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks for that info. I'm still searching for those old fleet rosters. I know the first PCC streetcar was #4000. I found some good information on Transit Toronto regarding the PCC fleet roster but the Witt fleet roster is too old and hard to find. I'm looking for these rosters so I can organize my online picture gallery better and allocate my pictures accordingly.greekguy1326 The first Witt is numbered 2300; it is a 1921 model. Here's all the TTC Witts. 2300-2498 1921 Large Witt 2500-2578 1921 Large Witt 2580-2678 1922 Large Witt 2700-2798 1922-1923 Small Witt 2800-2898 1923 Small Witt 2900-3018 1923 Large Witt 2301-2419 1921 2-Door Trailer 2701-2899 1923 3-Door Trailer 2901-3029 1923 3-Door Trailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekguy1326 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks for the information everybody! I really appreciate it! greekguy1326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusFanForever Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 If you want a historical/all time roster, this will help:http://www.transitstop.net/TTC%20Vehicles/PCC2.jpg Dan Interesting.... PCC 4063 was the first one retired in 1947 due to an accident and by the look of it CLRV 4063 will be the first one to be retired due to it's current status as a rusting hulk. What are the chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Interesting.... PCC 4063 was the first one retired in 1947 due to an accident and by the look of it CLRV 4063 will be the first one to be retired due to it's current status as a rusting hulk. What are the chances? Why is CLRV 4063 rusting? What happened to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob H Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 1. Are there any CLRV's without the "stop behind streetcar doors" sticker on the rear window left?2. Do any ALRV's have the "stop behind streetcar doors" sticker on the rear window? I haven't seen them wearing the sticker. There are lots of CLRVs without the window sticker - too many to bother with a list. I haven't seen any ALRVs with the sticker yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcgeek Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Why is CLRV 4063 rusting? What happened to it? IIRC, wasn't it retired long ago because of it's failed rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschic Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 The Peter Witt is 2766. Thanks Wil9402.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 IIRC, wasn't it retired long ago because of it's failed rebuild? I thought it was 4064. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wil9402 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 I thought it was 4064. It's 4063. Although it is not officially retired, it hasn't been removed from the fleet roster in the service summary, I doubt it will ever return to service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3G Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 What is the difference between a TTC New Flyer D40-88 and a D40-89? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40-90 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Noticeable differences are the silver or grey windows for the D40-88. The D40-89 has black windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general682002 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Noticeable differences are the silver or grey windows for the D40-88. The D40-89 has black windows. So do the drivers window, two fixed on top and bottom, sliding in the middle for the 88. The 89 has one fixed window above the sliding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted December 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Telescopic steering for the D40-89s and the most obvious difference that none of you have mentioned so far; D40-88 is 1988 while D40-89 is 1989! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekguy1326 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Thanks for giving me this web site. I found the info helpful. I have a new question about two TTC PCC streetcars regarding their fleet numbers. At Halton County they have PCC 4611 and 4618. In their fleet roster book it says that both 4611 and 4618 are ex A-8 class and 4611 was ex 4540 and 4618 was ex 4501. That would explain why I don't see 4611 and 4618 in the old TTC PPC fleet roster because there is a gap in the numbering b/w 4601-4625. My question is who and why was 4540 renumbered to 4611 and again who and why was 4501 renumbered to 4618? Were 4611 and 4618 the official TTC fleet numbers? If so then why is there a gap b/w 4601-4625. If anybody can shed some light for me on this that would be great. Thanks, greekguy1326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulated Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Thanks for giving me this web site. I found the info helpful. I have a new question about two TTC PCC streetcars regarding their fleet numbers. At Halton County they have PCC 4611 and 4618. In their fleet roster book it says that both 4611 and 4618 are ex A-8 class and 4611 was ex 4540 and 4618 was ex 4501. That would explain why I don't see 4611 and 4618 in the old TTC PPC fleet roster because there is a gap in the numbering b/w 4601-4625. My question is who and why was 4540 renumbered to 4611 and again who and why was 4501 renumbered to 4618? Were 4611 and 4618 the official TTC fleet numbers? If so then why is there a gap b/w 4601-4625. If anybody can shed some light for me on this that would be great. Thanks, greekguy1326 The TTC started rebuilding the PCCs in the late 80s/early 90s IIRC. They manged to rebuild aprox. 18 of them, and were renumbered into the 46xx series when rebuilt (much the same way the New Looks were renumbered into 2xxx). 4500 and 4549 were rebuilt in the same way as the others, except they were rebuilt to be historical units and kept their old numbers. There are two numbers in the 46xx series that are 'reserved' for 4500 and 4549, IIRC they were around 4605 and 4606? The rebuild program was cancelled in the early 1990s. There were plans to rebuild more PCCs (at least 25 if not all the way up to all 50 in the 45xx series). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Telescopic steering for the D40-89s and the most obvious difference that none of you have mentioned so far; D40-88 is 1988 while D40-89 is 1989! LOL. The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models. The TTC started rebuilding the PCCs in the late 80s/early 90s IIRC. They manged to rebuild aprox. 18 of them.... 19. 4600-4618. , and were renumbered into the 46xx series when rebuilt (much the same way the New Looks were renumbered into 2xxx). 4500 and 4549 were rebuilt in the same way as the others, except they were rebuilt to be historical units and kept their old numbers. There are two numbers in the 46xx series that are 'reserved' for 4500 and 4549, IIRC they were around 4605 and 4606? 4604 and 4605. The rebuild program was cancelled in the early 1990s. There were plans to rebuild more PCCs (at least 25 if not all the way up to all 50 in the 45xx series). 1991. The original plan called for 23 cars, with another 7 cars as an option to provide enough cars for the proposed Spadina streetcar line as well, but it was cut back in 1991 due to funding. The final cars lasted just 4 years in service before they were pulled, which is also why every single one of the cars were sold and continue to exist. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekguy1326 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Thank you for the information YRTeen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3G Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Why weren't there any 25xx New Looks? Why would they just skip numbering them into the 25xx series and instead number them into the 26xx, 27xx and 28xx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new.flyer.408 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Why weren't there any 25xx New Looks? Why would they just skip numbering them into the 25xx series and instead number them into the 26xx, 27xx and 28xx? I believe that was reserved for the planned Classic rebuild - plan now defunct, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion V Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models.Dan I didn't say they came with it! Then again, I left it open and didn't say it didn't either! Anyways, here's Allen's site that states they came with it. http://www.transithub.net/ttc/d4089.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general682002 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models. Are you sure? The tilt/tele steering where introducing at that time brand new on the market unless TTC opted out the option which made drivers complained big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Anyways, here's Allen's site that states they came with it.http://www.transithub.net/ttc/d4089.htm Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wil9402 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels.Dan Like the D901s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschic Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels.Dan You are correct Dan, NONE of the 88's or 89's have telescopic steering wheel, that started with the V's (6600-6700's) I know that because my friends at QSY, ALWAYS complain about it, they hate it that those buses never got it, the steering column is just a black tube, not telescoping at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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