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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V

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Thanks for that info. I'm still searching for those old fleet rosters. I know the first PCC streetcar was #4000. I found some good information on Transit Toronto regarding the PCC fleet roster but the Witt fleet roster is too old and hard to find. I'm looking for these rosters so I can organize my online picture gallery better and allocate my pictures accordingly.

greekguy1326

The first Witt is numbered 2300; it is a 1921 model.

Here's all the TTC Witts.

2300-2498 1921 Large Witt

2500-2578 1921 Large Witt

2580-2678 1922 Large Witt

2700-2798 1922-1923 Small Witt

2800-2898 1923 Small Witt

2900-3018 1923 Large Witt

2301-2419 1921 2-Door Trailer

2701-2899 1923 3-Door Trailer

2901-3029 1923 3-Door Trailer

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If you want a historical/all time roster, this will help:

http://www.transitstop.net/TTC%20Vehicles/PCC2.jpg

Dan

Interesting.... PCC 4063 was the first one retired in 1947 due to an accident and by the look of it CLRV 4063 will be the first one to be retired due to it's current status as a rusting hulk. What are the chances?

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Interesting.... PCC 4063 was the first one retired in 1947 due to an accident and by the look of it CLRV 4063 will be the first one to be retired due to it's current status as a rusting hulk. What are the chances?

Why is CLRV 4063 rusting? What happened to it?

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1. Are there any CLRV's without the "stop behind streetcar doors" sticker on the rear window left?

2. Do any ALRV's have the "stop behind streetcar doors" sticker on the rear window? I haven't seen them wearing the sticker.

There are lots of CLRVs without the window sticker - too many to bother with a list. I haven't seen any ALRVs with the sticker yet.

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Noticeable differences are the silver or grey windows for the D40-88. The D40-89 has black windows.

So do the drivers window, two fixed on top and bottom, sliding in the middle for the 88. The 89 has one fixed window above the sliding.

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Thanks for giving me this web site. I found the info helpful.

I have a new question about two TTC PCC streetcars regarding their fleet numbers. At Halton County they have PCC 4611 and 4618. In their fleet roster book it says that both 4611 and 4618 are ex A-8 class and 4611 was ex 4540 and 4618 was ex 4501. That would explain why I don't see 4611 and 4618 in the old TTC PPC fleet roster because there is a gap in the numbering b/w 4601-4625. My question is who and why was 4540 renumbered to 4611 and again who and why was 4501 renumbered to 4618? Were 4611 and 4618 the official TTC fleet numbers? If so then why is there a gap b/w 4601-4625.

If anybody can shed some light for me on this that would be great.

Thanks,

greekguy1326

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Thanks for giving me this web site. I found the info helpful.

I have a new question about two TTC PCC streetcars regarding their fleet numbers. At Halton County they have PCC 4611 and 4618. In their fleet roster book it says that both 4611 and 4618 are ex A-8 class and 4611 was ex 4540 and 4618 was ex 4501. That would explain why I don't see 4611 and 4618 in the old TTC PPC fleet roster because there is a gap in the numbering b/w 4601-4625. My question is who and why was 4540 renumbered to 4611 and again who and why was 4501 renumbered to 4618? Were 4611 and 4618 the official TTC fleet numbers? If so then why is there a gap b/w 4601-4625.

If anybody can shed some light for me on this that would be great.

Thanks,

greekguy1326

The TTC started rebuilding the PCCs in the late 80s/early 90s IIRC. They manged to rebuild aprox. 18 of them, and were renumbered into the 46xx series when rebuilt (much the same way the New Looks were renumbered into 2xxx). 4500 and 4549 were rebuilt in the same way as the others, except they were rebuilt to be historical units and kept their old numbers. There are two numbers in the 46xx series that are 'reserved' for 4500 and 4549, IIRC they were around 4605 and 4606?

The rebuild program was cancelled in the early 1990s. There were plans to rebuild more PCCs (at least 25 if not all the way up to all 50 in the 45xx series).

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Telescopic steering for the D40-89s and the most obvious difference that none of you have mentioned so far; D40-88 is 1988 while D40-89 is 1989! LOL.

The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models.

The TTC started rebuilding the PCCs in the late 80s/early 90s IIRC. They manged to rebuild aprox. 18 of them....

19. 4600-4618.

, and were renumbered into the 46xx series when rebuilt (much the same way the New Looks were renumbered into 2xxx). 4500 and 4549 were rebuilt in the same way as the others, except they were rebuilt to be historical units and kept their old numbers. There are two numbers in the 46xx series that are 'reserved' for 4500 and 4549, IIRC they were around 4605 and 4606?

4604 and 4605.

The rebuild program was cancelled in the early 1990s. There were plans to rebuild more PCCs (at least 25 if not all the way up to all 50 in the 45xx series).

1991. The original plan called for 23 cars, with another 7 cars as an option to provide enough cars for the proposed Spadina streetcar line as well, but it was cut back in 1991 due to funding. The final cars lasted just 4 years in service before they were pulled, which is also why every single one of the cars were sold and continue to exist.

Dan

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The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models.

Dan

I didn't say they came with it! Then again, I left it open and didn't say it didn't either! :(

Anyways, here's Allen's site that states they came with it.

http://www.transithub.net/ttc/d4089.htm

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The 89's were not built with the tilt/telescopic steering column, but had it retrofitted during one of their refurbs. I don't know why the same wasn't done to the 1988 models.

Are you sure? The tilt/tele steering where introducing at that time brand new on the market unless TTC opted out the option which made drivers complained big time.

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Anyways, here's Allen's site that states they came with it.

http://www.transithub.net/ttc/d4089.htm

Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels.

Dan

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Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels.

Dan

Like the D901s?

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Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't recall any of the -88's or -89's that were around Danforth for a brief period having them. In fact, I definitely recall both of them having the same steering column as the -87's - a straight black steel tube from floor to the wheel, with large black steering wheels.

Dan

You are correct Dan, NONE of the 88's or 89's have telescopic steering wheel, that started with the V's (6600-6700's) I know that because my friends at QSY, ALWAYS complain about it, they hate it that those buses never got it, the steering column is just a black tube, not telescoping at all....

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