Solaris

[Transit Apologist]

Per this Facebook video it seems Solaris is looking at bringing their electric and fuel cell models to North America (potentially in addition to the trolley if Vancouver is interested). Briefly shown in the video is an Urbino with EASB bumpers.

Of course only time will tell if Solaris will be successful here given CMVSS/FMVSS, Buy America, Altoona testing and all the other hurdles. However, they seem to have a good reputation and a solid share of the market in Europe (more so than Van Hool). 

[T3G]

It's too bad the current line of Solaris models is absolutely hideous.

The previous generation looked so much better:

[FlyerD901]

14 hours ago, T3G said:

It's too bad the current line of Solaris models is absolutely hideous.

The previous generation looked so much better:

Agreed.

But I'm sure , based on the vid they showed that they'll have a more modified model for the North American market.

 

[MCIBUS]

1 hour ago, FlyerD901 said:

Agreed.

But I'm sure , based on the vid they showed that they'll have a more modified model for the North American market.

I'm assuming that include Transport Canada bus regulations.

1 hour ago, FlyerD901 said:

 

 

[MVTArider]

18 hours ago, T3G said:

It's too bad the current line of Solaris models is absolutely hideous.

I'll still welcome something that's not yet another Gillig Low Floor regardless...

Edit: Does the Urbino have a front door wheelchair ramp option? A lot of TAs will be unwavering on that spec. Even at our newest standard bus stops here in the Twin Cities the ADA spec concrete stop pads are installed specifically for front door boarding.

[Original_doll]

Making the decision to enter the North American bus market with a fully electric product line is not the best idea..... 
These business people still promote electric transit buses as the way to go as if its not super unreliable lol. The only EV that hasn't been blowing up or having tons of breakdowns is the Gillig LF+ but it still takes months to set up and is only good for stop-and-go routes. 

[T3G]

21 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

Agreed.

But I'm sure , based on the vid they showed that they'll have a more modified model for the North American market.

 

 

19 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

I'm assuming that include Transport Canada bus regulations.

 

Based on the Van Hools, I doubt these modifications will include significant exterior visual changes.

17 hours ago, MVTArider said:

I'll still welcome something that's not yet another Gillig Low Floor regardless...

Edit: Does the Urbino have a front door wheelchair ramp option? A lot of TAs will be unwavering on that spec. Even at our newest standard bus stops here in the Twin Cities the ADA spec concrete stop pads are installed specifically for front door boarding.

I doubt it, I don't know any European transit agency that has a front door wheelchair ramp. But I also don't think it would be a very difficult change to make. I think a bigger concern would be the width of the aisle between the wheel wells.

https://imhd.sk/ba/galeria-media/126579/Predná-časť-interiéru-Solarisu-Urbino-10-2001?ghv=9978&ref=ba%2Fvozidlo%2F9978%2FSolaris-Urbino-10-2001

[Girardin71]

Solaris will have to reconfigure the interior of there 12m and 18m buses to meet how the USA and Canada buses are layout.   They won't make it far and the cost of coming to North America will be too expensive.  Not very good business decision.   The Urbino wouldn't pass CMVSS/FMVSS.

[2044]

13 minutes ago, Girardin71 said:

Solaris will have to reconfigure the interior of there 12m and 18m buses to meet how the USA and Canada buses are layout.   They won't make it far and the cost of coming to North America will be too expensive.  Not very good business decision.   The Urbino wouldn't pass CMVSS/FMVSS.

In the video they say they have a CMVSS/FMVSS design. How different it is from the EU design remains to be seen, but you’re right it will be different.

[ZümmyZüm]

During a video where they announced their planned entry they provided a small concept image of the bus

 

For this to "work" in NA with a ramp at the front they'll need to redo the front of the bus as the current entryway is very narrow on the urbino model and could not fit a wheelchair. In addition redo the door controls to NA spec and signals on the floor vs steering column, or they can attempt to introduce EU style. 

The alternative is to keep the design as is and run it like Vanhool did with the ramp in the rear door and the the entire bus leans to the right when lowered instead of the just the front 

[MCIBUS]

I'm not sure how many transit agencies use the rear door as a with a Wheel chair ramp in NA, Nova  did at the beginning but AFIK it's just at the front(might be wrong in this assumption). But I would assume it would be easier to have it in the front. I know OC wouldn't get any if was in the rear, and I'm asuming the TTC and many others wouldn't either? 

[ZümmyZüm]

2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

I'm not sure how many transit agencies use the rear door as a with a Wheel chair ramp in NA, Nova  did at the beginning but AFIK it's just at the front(might be wrong in this assumption). But I would assume it would be easier to have it in the front. I know OC wouldn't get any if was in the rear, and I'm asuming the TTC and many others wouldn't either? 

It would be a deal breaker for most, lot of bus stop pads are designed for wheelchair users to align in certain spots and this would either force the bus into an intersection or passed the concrete pad. 

NovaBus did offer it at the beginning and most if not all agencies disabled it fairly soon after, the only agencies that I'm aware still doing it is HSR and Sarnia so these two agencies would have no issue adapting. 

What Solaris does that isn't a popular option either is where the wheelchair seating is, there aren't any foldable seats so it's used for standing at other times. But waiting for Altoona testing will give us all the answers we need to know. 

 

[T3G]

37 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

It would be a deal breaker for most, lot of bus stop pads are designed for wheelchair users to align in certain spots and this would either force the bus into an intersection or passed the concrete pad. 

NovaBus did offer it at the beginning and most if not all agencies disabled it fairly soon after, the only agencies that I'm aware still doing it is HSR and Sarnia so these two agencies would have no issue adapting. 

What Solaris does that isn't a popular option either is where the wheelchair seating is, there aren't any foldable seats so it's used for standing at other times. But waiting for Altoona testing will give us all the answers we need to know. 

 

Both of these highlight some serious problems with the thinking of North American transit agencies. It would be far better if the bus stop pads were long enough for people getting on at both doors, it is not at all pleasant to exit from the rear doors onto mud or into a snowbank.

As for the lack of foldable seating in the wheelchair area, that should be a good thing. The seating plan on every TTC bus ordered after the 1996 Orion Vs has been atrocious, there is no spot in the bus you could stand in where you're not in someone's way. Every time I find myself on a crushloaded bus I feel like an absolute fool, shuffling back and forth, up and down the bus getting out of people's way. The Flexity streetcars have enough alcoves where I don't consider this to be a significant problem, but they're about the only surface vehicles in Toronto which offer a passable rush hour travel experience.

In terms of infrastructure design, VIVA routes which are operated by Van Hools offer by far the best bus experience I've had in the modern era. The service design is pretty mediocre, but the comfort level provided by the Van Hools is ideal.

[Doppelkupplung]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:58 PM, T3G said:

It's too bad the current line of Solaris models is absolutely hideous.

The previous generation looked so much better:

Hard disagreement there, the IV looks spectacular. It's different and I love it. But looks are subjective I guess. If it's not hideous now, TC regs will make it hideous (I hate that damn EASB bumper).

On 3/15/2024 at 8:29 AM, Original_doll said:

Making the decision to enter the North American bus market with a fully electric product line is not the best idea..... 
These business people still promote electric transit buses as the way to go as if its not super unreliable lol. The only EV that hasn't been blowing up or having tons of breakdowns is the Gillig LF+ but it still takes months to set up and is only good for stop-and-go routes. 

Yeah but these guys have been making e buses for several years now, fulfilling big orders (like 2-300 e-buses at a time). They have valuable experience on their side.

Europe is just a whole different ballgame for e-buses, they're well established everywhere and there's like upwards of 8 major manufacturers competing for orders. We're only getting into it properly just now and that two with . I think Berlin had like 250 electrics 5 years ago.

On 3/15/2024 at 2:55 PM, Girardin71 said:

Solaris will have to reconfigure the interior of there 12m and 18m buses to meet how the USA and Canada buses are layout.   They won't make it far and the cost of coming to North America will be too expensive.  Not very good business decision.   The Urbino wouldn't pass CMVSS/FMVSS.

I mean, I'm pretty sure they did some research before shipping one of their units out for a test here, don't you?

[ZümmyZüm]

Solaris has secured an order for 5 units for MTA in the big apple. This seems to indicate they're done or finalizing the process for CMVSS/FMVSS testing and perhaps Altoona. 

The model will be called the NAe40 (at least on the tendor sheet) and likely be based off their current '24 Urbino 12 model, although I doubt the 3 door will carry over here 

MTA document

If you'd like a chuckle, head over the Mta thread for more on this 

[FlyerD901]

48 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Solaris has secured an order for 5 units for MTA in the big apple. This seems to indicate they're done or finalizing the process for CMVSS/FMVSS testing and perhaps Altoona. 

The model will be called the NAe40 (at least on the tendor sheet) and likely be based off their current '24 Urbino 12 model, although I doubt the 3 door will carry over here 

MTA document

If you'd like a chuckle, head over the Mta thread for more on this 

It will be interesting what, if any design changes it will have for the final product. 

Let's see where they plan on setting up their facility. Possibly the soon to be former Nova plant in the States. 

Imagine they show up at OTE to introduce the new model. But that's in a few weeks, obviously that won't happen. 

What's the expected delivery date for these buses, I would assume by the end of this year?

[Glennwood Road Ent.]

1 hour ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Solaris has secured an order for 5 units for MTA in the big apple. This seems to indicate they're done or finalizing the process for CMVSS/FMVSS testing and perhaps Altoona. 

The model will be called the NAe40 (at least on the tendor sheet) and likely be based off their current '24 Urbino 12 model, although I doubt the 3 door will carry over here 

MTA document

If you'd like a chuckle, head over the Mta thread for more on this 

That's correct 10-4 and over and hope Solaris will be in the new competition for the entire North American Content in the near future (if my opinion including Latin American and The Caribbean Region) against Karsan, NFI, NovaBus, Gillig and BYD for Diesel, Diesel-Electric Hybrid, CNG, EV, ETB, Fuel Cell for 30-60 foot lengths. Hope Solaris will buy and invest in their own property out of their own pockets either in Canada, USA or Mexico for free crown land including Latin America and The Caribbean region. 

At the time of the writing of this post, USA spec Van Hool, Proterra and ENC will be going out of business including NovaBus USA for the rest of their lives in heaven. 

[Bus_Dealership]

On 4/9/2024 at 12:17 AM, Glennwood Road Ent. said:

That's correct 10-4 and over and hope Solaris will be in the new competition for the entire North American Content in the near future (if my opinion including Latin American and The Caribbean Region) against Karsan, NFI, NovaBus, Gillig and BYD for Diesel, Diesel-Electric Hybrid, CNG, EV, ETB, Fuel Cell for 30-60 foot lengths. Hope Solaris will buy and invest in their own property out of their own pockets either in Canada, USA or Mexico for free crown land including Latin America and The Caribbean region. 

At the time of the writing of this post, USA spec Van Hool, Proterra and ENC will be going out of business including NovaBus USA for the rest of their lives in heaven. 

I hope the euro company sees this as an opportunity to join the competition