General Route Discussion and History

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Not sure the exact date but I remember seeing a map of the route 3 only going as far as Southhampton Drive, it would have been very, very long ago when the route 3 was still served by trolley buses. The route 3 also didn't serve Heritage Station during the trolley bus era.

Interesting. So I suppose there was a bus terminal loop or something for the Trolley's to turn around or did they go around the block somewhere?

[Nick B]

Interesting. So I suppose there was a bus terminal loop or something for the Trolley's to turn around or did they go around the block somewhere?

They might have went around Southampton drive like the former 82 did (if it was possible back then).

Also, didn't Heritage station not exist yet, in the trolley era?

[highfive]

Well, at this point its all from memory based on maps I've seen at the SFU library, but my understanding is that the route 2 Glanmorgan to/from Thorncliffe, the route 3 78 Avenue to and from Southhampton Drive, the route 7 South Calgary, same route except for 7A service which terminated at 33 Avenue and Crowchild Trail.

I do know there were other trolleybus routes, though those are the ones which are largely in tact.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Maybe they went around Southampton drive like the former 82 did (if it was possible back then).

I was thinking along that idea as well... There are some Trolley bus websites that should have the maps. So I need to do some googling.

the route 7 South Calgary, same route except for 7A service which terminated at 33 Avenue and Crowchild Trail.

I think CT needs to consider Branch line routes like that again...

Oh and here is the Trolley bus map: http://www.trolleybu...map_1969_ss.htm . But for the downtown core only. Still searching for more.

[highfive]

Heritage Station is interesting as the building where the Operator's washroom currently is was at one time the base for Dial-A-Ride operations and also acted as a transfer hub for routes travelling to and from Downtown Calgary. Heritage Station was a fixture in the south end of Calgary for a time period before the opening of the LRT line. The Blue Arrow Express buses would terminate at Heritage and/or serve Heritage while the Dial-A-Ride and various feeder buses would pick up and drop off passengers in the Oakridge and Palliser neighbourhoods. Not sure exactly how it worked or the specifics, I would have to consult a map to give more detailed information.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

It looks as though the route 3 Trolley turned around in the south down at Sachville Drive.

[highfive]

It would be interesting to learn of the complete streetcar network, as I know there were street cars serving Bowness Park from Downtown Calgary, the Beltline, Ogden Car shops, Inglewood, Sunnyside. I think the only routes in tact from the Street Car era would be the route 2,3 and 7, just like from the Trolleybus era.

[Nick B]

Heritage Station is interesting as the building where the Operator's washroom currently is was at one time the base for Dial-A-Ride operations and also acted as a transfer hub for routes travelling to and from Downtown Calgary. Heritage Station was a fixture in the south end of Calgary for a time period before the opening of the LRT line. The Blue Arrow Express buses would terminate at Heritage and/or serve Heritage while the Dial-A-Ride and various feeder buses would pick up and drop off passengers in the Oakridge and Palliser neighbourhoods. Not sure exactly how it worked or the specifics, I would have to consult a map to give more detailed information.

So there was a generic bus terminal where Heritage station currently is?

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

It looks as though the route 3 Trolley turned around in the south down at Sachville Drive.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Sackville+Drive+Southwest,+Calgary,+AB&hl=en&ll=50.957029,-114.084741&spn=0.001418,0.003484&sll=50.995283,-114.057999&sspn=0.045107,0.111494&oq=Sachville+Drive,+Calgary&t=h&hnear=Sackville+Dr+SW,+Calgary,+Alberta&z=19&layer=c&cbll=50.957029,-114.084741&panoid=W9t9NKeC2Xt-p3leUQI1bw&cbp=12,31.57,,0,0

[TransitOp]

Not really. The 90 served several communities including Martindale where I used to live. So really it didn't seemed Pointless as it was used by several people that didn't want to wait to get to Whitehorn Station by using 71 , 428 or 436.

The routing for 90 was different then 23. It went straight on 52nd at least all the way past the CN tracks before turning right. Kind of a similar route to 176. It was a bus for factory workers in Foothills industrial area. Last stop in morning was somewhere around Shannahan's.

[Nick B]

Old Route 78 Sundance/Chaparral via 22X instead of Macleod: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20070509172624/http://www.calgarytransit.com/Routes/html/rte078.html

[D40LF]

Old Route 78 Sundance/Chaparral via 22X instead of Macleod: http://wayback.archi...tml/rte078.html

That changed only a couple of years ago. When I was a new driver I was given the 78 one Sunday and my map showed that I went down 22x. Thankfully at the the last minute I got a copy of the new map that showed I went down MacLeod Trail to 194 Ave.

[Greatcoinz]

Route 461 - very short lived route for the South hospital.

[Nick B]

Route 461 - very short lived route for the South hospital.

IIRC, the 461 was pretty much just a transfer extension of the 406, that was cancelled when they decided to simply extend the 406 to Mahogany/McKenzie Towne. The 461 lasted only a month or two I believe.

[Gsgeek540]

IIRC, the 461 was pretty much just a transfer extension of the 406, that was cancelled when they decided to simply extend the 406 to Mahogany/McKenzie Towne. The 461 lasted only a month or two I believe.

461 lasted the entire September 2012 signup.

The 461 was an interesting little route. If you look at the long term BRT plan, the 302 will at some point be coming to the new hospital via 52 street...eventually. Key word is eventually as the road doesnt go as far as the hospital yet, meaning, it would have to go through auburn bay to get there. The ring road construction was said to be another factor, specifically the intersecton of 22x and 52 street. So the 461 was developed in its place. To go around the construction and right to the hospital.

Once mahoganny qualified for transit service, the options were extend an existing route to service or create a new route like the 152. 406 was extended to mahgonny and mckenzie towne terminal which was win win for many reasons. Creating counter traffic on the 406 from auburn bay for those who would rather BRT to and from downtown (and believe me, there are alotthat do), give mahoganny the choice between brt and LRT, connects mckenzie towne terminal and the 302 to the hopsital one way or another.

As i sit at the hospital on my 14 right now, i notice the BRT shelters already in place.

[armorand]

Going on Peters mention of branch service (and also adding my input since I've been in Calgary and came from a city, Winnipeg, where branch service is all over the place), where would be good starts for this reintroduction of branch service? Market Mall could definitely use it, thats one place off the top of my head. I find it extremely annoying to travel there via transit, and maybe route branching could be a nice solution.

[highfive]

I have always wondered why Calgary doesn't use branch lines... my understanding that it is largely due to the use of Community Shuttle vehicles on dedicated routes. The closest Calgary Transit comes to branch lines is two routes interlined together.

[1604]

Route 144 - 69th Street West Express

http://www.calgarytransit.com/route_maps/rte144.html

[Jon Calon]

Route 144 - 69th Street West Express

http://www.calgarytransit.com/route_maps/rte144.html

Interesting that it says the service has been replaced by the route 2. Given that it mostly follows the WestLRT line, wouldn't it be better to say it's been replaced by route 202?

Jon

[Gsgeek540]

Interesting that it says the service has been replaced by the route 2. 2010, 2.5 years before West LRT. Given that it mostly follows the WestLRT line, wouldn't it be better to say it's been replaced by route 202?

Jon

You have to look at the date this route was cancelled at the top...2010, nearly 2.5 years before West LRT. Now, absolutely 202. But at that time, the 2 followed most of that routing.

When buses were moved out of westside to sirocco, the only bus that got close to westside rec. from the core without a transfer at sirocco.

[TransitOp]

Interesting that it says the service has been replaced by the route 2. Given that it mostly follows the WestLRT line, wouldn't it be better to say it's been replaced by route 202?

Jon

144 was an express run that ran am/pm rush with limted stops. It was usually interlined with a school run. 67 is another one that was cancelled.

[vivablue5215]

Not sure if this is the correct place to put this but... http://www.calgaryherald.com/Southeast+rapid+transit+plan+ranks+last+cost+benefit+analysis/8533922/story.html#ixzz2WVoA1X1n

Southeast rapid transit plan ranks last in cost-benefit analysis

Rapid transit to the southeast, long touted as the next major project for Calgary, has been ranked last in a new city study of future transit expansions.

Transit planners’ cost-benefit analysis of seven new special lines included ones down Centre Street, to the deep southwest and a couple cross-town “bus rapid transit” routes. The southeast transitway, along the future LRT corridor, ties for sixth-best with a loop route to the University of Calgary and nearby hospitals.

For residents in the transit-starved quadrant who were miffed the west LRT went ahead before a southeast LRT, it’s a worrisome finding that knocks them further down the transit priority list when construction dollars come up next.

“It scares the hell out of me,” said Shifra DiBattista, who lives in Douglasdale and is a past president of its community association.

“It’s becoming a parking lot, the Deerfoot. And this is going to exacerbate the problem.”

The dismal cost-benefit scoring for the southeast transit project has less to do with the benefits of rapid buses for cutting travel times, supporting high-density redevelopment and serving would-be motorists — it’s the costs that are killer.

It will cost $642 million to create a special roadway across the Bow River, an irrigation canal, train lines and Deerfoot Trail, en route to Quarry Park and Douglasglen. That’s more than five times pricier than a busway up Centre Street and six times higher than one down 17th Avenue S.E., since both use existing roadways. Bus-only lanes to the congested area south of Glenmore Reservoir would run $40 million.

This new study is designed to help give council a pecking order among various transit projects to plan and develop once new money comes in.

Some could arrive next month, if council chooses to use the $52 million in tax vacated by the province for transit rather than giving it back or use it elsewhere. A renewed federal Building Canada Fund could also bring Calgary some new transit spending money.

The cost-benefit analysis weighed costs, future ridership, transit times, redevelopment potential and the potential for greenhouse emission cuts, as well as considering the number of youth, seniors and low-income residents in the area.

Ald. Shane Keating, who has fought bitterly to keep the “SETway” atop the priority list, has long criticized planners for putting up numbers that downplay prospects for his ward’s transit project.

“It’s the same old story. We can change things, however, we want to not make the southeast go ahead,” Keating told the Herald. “Depends on what they actually did and what they compared.

Despite the findings, the Ward 12 alderman is still confident the busway to Douglasglen will get built first.

“What is the most desperate need at this time and how are we going to be somewhat equitable? In the long run, I think the SETway is going to run ahead.”

DiBattista is less hopeful. “They’re just going to go with what’s more affordable.”

Other aldermen, including those along the Centre Street route, have urged that the city’s numbers dictate the next project, rather than politics. The cost-benefit analysis puts that northern route first, largely because of its huge ridership, population density and relatively lower cost.

While Douglasdale, Douglasglen and the developing neighbourhoods of Quarry Park have transit-ready job and resident densities — as do McKenzie Towne and the neighbourhoods closer the south hospital — it will be a more sparse trip from there to downtown, cutting through large industrial areas en route and only four other communities.

On the positive side, the southeast transitway would cut 13 minutes off commutes — more than any other route — and is second-best for redevelopment opportunities.

The southwest transitway, which runs along Crowchild and 14th Street S.W., ranks second in the analysis. It’s been touted as a way to offset mass congestion in an area that’s long awaited the southwest leg of the ring road.

The southwest bottleneck needs a solution, said Cec Jahrig, president of the Woodcreek Community Association. But he said residents haven’t expected this transit fix to come anytime soon.

“There hasn’t been a lot of discussion that I know of about when we are gong to get it,”

“It’s surprising to me southeast is last, because it’s been talked about so long.”

Mayor Naheed Nenshi touted the southeast LRT as a priority after getting elected three years ago. But without money to start the $2.7-billion line, he’s pared back his promises, touting instead a clear priority list for all the city’s bus and rail expansions, and a “green line” approach that could see the southeast and north-central routes developed as a single line.

DiBattista said she stepped down as community president out of frustration with the slow pace of city action for the southeast’s transportation needs. She worries her part of the city will become less desirable if it keeps growing rapidly without the city creating better ways to get around.

“They need to give us a carrot. They need to give us something ... no matter what the numbers say,” DiBattista said.

jmarkusoff@calgaryherald.com

Cost-benefit analysis for transit projects: How they rank

1. Centre Street transitway (to Panorama Hills): startup costs $11.43/rider; large passenger base, would increase room for buses; cut commutes by six minutes

2. Southwest transitway (down Crowchild/14th Street S.W. to Woodbine): $4.44/rider; Uses existing right-of-way, only $40 million; cut commutes by eight minutes

3. South crosstown BRT (Westbrook to MRU to Quarry Park/Douglasglen): $2.86/rider; only $20 million, uses existing lanes, cuts crosstown bus commutes by eight minutes

4. 17th Avenue S.E. transitway (down centre of street): $42.61/rider; boosts redevelopment prospects for Forest Lawn’s main street; cuts commutes by three minutes

5. North crosstown BRT (U of C down 16th Avenue to Rundlehorn and Saddletowne): $5/rider; could produce high greenhouse emissions cuts; cut commutes by eight minutes

6(Tie). Southeast transitway (new bus-only roadway to Quarry Park/Douglasglen) $108.81/rider; high redevelopment potential; $642 million overall; cuts commutes by 13 minutes

6 (tie). West Campus (U of C to LRT to Foothills and Alberta Children’s Hospital): $21.43/rider; low ridership for $30 million project; cut commutes by nine minutes.

[D40LF]

Should be in the Calgary Transit thread.

http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=52

[1604]

New #300 routing - along 96 Avenue to Airport Trail. Starts August 6th at 11:00am.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/route_maps/rte300.html

[Transit Fan]

Is the current 300 used much by people just travelling along Center St and downtown (as an alternative to a 3/301)?