Transit Service to Airport? (International, that is)

[Old Look]

The CBC reports that ETSAB is recommending transit service to the International Airport be commenced from the Century Park LRT station starting in the spring of 2010, coinciding with the opening of the LRT extension. The bus service would be implemented on an 18-month experimental basis. It's only a proposal at this point.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/20...s-proposal.html

Questions that pop to mind are:

Will buses need to be modified with internal luggage racks (like Vancouver's buses have)? I can't imagine the answer being anything but yes.

Will LRT cars need to be modified with luggage racks? If so, how much will that affect train capacity at peak hours?

What would the impact on Park'n Ride lots be? Could travellers potentially leave their vehicles parked at LRT stations for days on end while they are away?

[kevlo86]

The CBC reports that ETSAB is recommending transit service to the International Airport be commenced from the Century Park LRT station starting in the spring of 2010, coinciding with the opening of the LRT extension. The bus service would be implemented on an 18-month experimental basis. It's only a proposal at this point.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/20...s-proposal.html

Questions that pop to mind are:

Will buses need to be modified with internal luggage racks (like Vancouver's buses have)? I can't imagine the answer being anything but yes.

Will LRT cars need to be modified with luggage racks? If so, how much will that affect train capacity at peak hours?

What would the impact on Park'n Ride lots be? Could travellers potentially leave their vehicles parked at LRT stations for days on end while they are away?

Just FYI, Vancouver's buses that have internal luggage racks were never used on airport services. Assigned buses were just regular 40 foot diesels and community shuttles, neither of which have luggage racks.

[M. Parsons]

The CBC reports that ETSAB is recommending transit service to the International Airport be commenced from the Century Park LRT station starting in the spring of 2010, coinciding with the opening of the LRT extension. The bus service would be implemented on an 18-month experimental basis. It's only a proposal at this point.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/20...s-proposal.html

Questions that pop to mind are:

Will buses need to be modified with internal luggage racks (like Vancouver's buses have)? I can't imagine the answer being anything but yes.

Will LRT cars need to be modified with luggage racks? If so, how much will that affect train capacity at peak hours?

What would the impact on Park'n Ride lots be? Could travelers potentially leave their vehicles parked at LRT stations for days on end while they are away?

It wouldn't hurt to modify them with luggage racks, if there is a demand for the service. Depending upon how they are modified too. Preferably not removing much seating, so that if a luggage rack equipped bus makes it onto a regular routes, so be it.

I believe some of West Vancouver's buses are fitted with luggage racks and are used to meet the ferries. The ex Vancouver D60's in particular come to mind.

LRV's should not be modified.

Park'n Ride impact... That is a good concern, but, see below . Also, just monitor the lot. Send someone around at say 22:00. Same car is still there, tow it. Or better yet, have signs that state no overnight parking with specific times noted. Cars in there after midnight (especially if there's no special events), tow them.

I haven't read the article yet, but, my question to add to yours is who is the service intended for? Is it meant for employees at the airport, or would this be geared for travelers?

If it is meant for employees I don't think luggage racks would be required to a great extent, certainly not on LRT. Further, abuse of park and ride shouldn't be an issue if you don't have many travelers using it, just mainly airport employees.

My experience in Toronto being the traveler is that I was usually the only person carting luggage on trasnit... maybe one or two others with luggage taking transit. When I've been on the 57 in Calgary, I don't recall seeing many people with luggage. I think it is safe to say most people are using the bus to get to employment at those airports, rather than being travelers.

[Modulator]

The Journal article is a little more circumspect: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Board+...6378/story.html

Bob Boutilier, general manager of the city’s transportation department, said he likes the concept of airport transit but expressed some skepticism about the advisory group’s proposal.

“They have their numbers and that’s fine. My question is, if this service is really profitable, then why isn’t the private sector running it?”

Boutilier said the city last tried to establish airport buses two years ago but couldn’t make it work, in part because the province was unwilling to contribute to the costs, he said.

Any future deal will have to overcome a number of challenges, Boutilier said.

First, the service must be a regional operation, with the costs shared among the city, Edmonton Airports, Leduc, Leduc County and other partners. That way, no one jurisdiction assumes all the financial risk, he said.

Coach-style buses may also have to be purchased, because typical transit buses are not designed for long highway drives, nor do they have the space for passengers’ luggage.

In addition, establishing such a service may anger taxi drivers and businesses who depend on airport fares.

Still, Boutilier said he’d like to try airport buses in the near future, at least as a pilot project.

The quote about "why isn't the private sector doing it" is kind of odd...

The ETSAB link is here. I'm impressed that ETSAB seems to be asserting itself a little more as an independent body.

My experience in Toronto being the traveler is that I was usually the only person carting luggage on trasnit... maybe one or two others with luggage taking transit. When I've been on the 57 in Calgary, I don't recall seeing many people with luggage. I think it is safe to say most people are using the bus to get to employment at those airports, rather than being travelers.

In Vancouver, the former 424 always had a good number of people taking luggage (who would then try to squeeze into the 98...I always stayed on the 424 after it turned into the 100 and took the 10 up Granville instead). But the people who take public transit to/from the airport tend to be those who pack light and are adept at carrying their bags through crowds.

[A. Wong]

Coach-style buses may also have to be purchased, because typical transit buses are not designed for long highway drives, nor do they have the space for passengers’ luggage.

Perfect use for 6002 - it has interior luggage racks.

In Vancouver I've brought my luggage on the buses (98 usually) but now they have Canada Line. Neither of which have luggage racks, nor do they need them IMO.

“They have their numbers and that’s fine. My question is, if this service is really profitable, then why isn’t the private sector running it?”

Maybe it isn't profitable, and that's why they want transit to run it. Although I am sure the taxi business from there is profitable - the fares are pretty high.

[madsad]

The quote about "why isn't the private sector doing it" is kind of odd...

'Odd', is one word for it. Should he not know the answer to this?

1. transit is often not profitable and is subsidized
2. is there not an obligation to provide service if there is demand/requests for it?

[Modulator]

'Odd', is one word for it. Should he not know the answer to this?

1. transit is often not profitable and is subsidized
2. is there not an obligation to provide service if there is demand/requests for it?

Well, I was being tactful. Same with his comment that taxi companies might object...

[captaintrolley]

There are always people who will take a taxi to the airport. The Sky Shuttle has a convenient service from various hotels which suit many people. For everyone else there should be public transit. It would be nice to at least have that choice / option.

[Ode of Bund]

YEG is the most pathetic airport among all the airports that I have travelled. All other airports that I've been to have at least one public transit bus route serving it, some have rail mass transit. Even Saskatoon airport is served by a bus route.

[Michael Marriott]

From today's Edmonton Sun:

Airport bus plan panned

By ALYSSA NOEL, SUN MEDIA

Airport-bound passengers won't go to the trouble of hauling their luggage to a far-flung bus stop when they could just call a friend for a ride, says Coun. Amarjeet Sohi.

He predicts a plan to bring transit service to the international gateway won't fly.

On Thursday, the Edmonton Transit System Advisory Board released a report recommending the city launch this spring an 18-month trial run with bus service from the soon-to-be finished Century Park LRT station to the Edmonton International Airport in Leduc.

It proposed a $2.50 ticket price each way for trips that will run every half hour while the LRT is in service.

"I'd rather phone my friends or family," Sohi said. "It's totally impractical."

The report cites a survey of 600 airport passengers conducted last month that found 53% of the respondents said they are "likely or very likely" to use airport transit to and from Century Park.

But Sohi said those numbers -- along with statistics that indicate the route could possibly turn a profit -- are "highly optimistic."

"I doubt their figures are realistic," he said. "They're saying there would have to be at least 27 passengers going to the airport and coming back (to break even). That is totally unrealistic."

He also worries the route would hurt the Sky Shuttle and taxi businesses that cater to airport passengers.

"We need to look at the effect the service would have on those businesses, at a time when they're struggling to make a decent living," he added.

But the bottom line, Sohi said, is the city should be investing in transit within the city, not a new route that will attract few passengers.

"For me, looking at a proposal to have service to the International Airport is a low priority," he said.

Traci Bednard, a spokeswoman with the airport, however, says the line would not only attract passengers, but many of their 4,500 staff members as well. She said with the right route and schedule, the airport would consider contributing money for the new line.

"We're happy it's being looked at," she said. "We believe there are details that need to be refined ... The challenge is finding the right schedule so it can sustain a ridership level that can be as self-sustaining as possible."

While Bednard wouldn't say the airport dislikes the proposed route, there is "an opportunity for more conversation," she added.

The report suggests the new bus service could begin in April 2010 when the Century Park LRT begins running.

Sohi once again proves that he has no clue what he's talking about, just like when he said we couldn't take the LRT down 87 Ave because that would overload the tunnel. I swear, you can see the puppet strings administration has tied to him.

[GM artic 5001]

Hmm, highway coaches may have to be bought (bet they can find a few in Sherwood Park), oh great ANOTHER form of transit

And why should the regionals pay, it is delivering passengers to Edmonton, and would be great for workers, but only during service hours, hate to get to century park or clareview with no other service available

BUT that highway coaches comment just flies in the face of the International boosters who say it is not far from town (10 minutes was a number used to justify closing the muni), so why the need for Highway Coaches then???

They COULD buy some Orion Vs from GO Transit as they have started retiring them or even their remaining Prevosts that are slated to be retired soon. Hey, if they can make it to Vancouver . . .

Transit to YEG is long overdue! A city this size should definity have transit to the airport, especially an International one!

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Even if there are not many customers that need to use Transit to get to the Airport for flights, I am sure there are many employees that work at the Airport that would use Transit to get to work from Edmonton. Some probably live in Leduc on the east side of Highway #2 as well. In Calgary, most of the passengers that use the route 57 to get to and from the Airport are employees who work at various jobs at the airport. So in my opinion, there still should be some sort of Transit service to the airport in Leduc.

[awstott]

City nixes airport bus plan

2:25pm

Click here to email Scott Johnston

11/17/2009

It sounded like idea at the time. However, an Edmonton City Council comittee has decided against the idea of an ETS bus running from the new Century Park LRT station to Edmonton International Airport -- for now anyway.

Money is the big reason why.

Committee members thought the bus link from the southern part of the city to the airport was a good idea. So good, councillors heard that the capital region is looking at doing exactly that same thing. And, transportation GM Bob Boutilier says the region plan would include provincial dollars. However, it would also mean local transit service for Leduc-Nisku and area.

"That's the debate that's occuring within the capital region board is 'Which of these options makes any sense?," says Boutilier. "They're all on the table"

That's a worry to Coun. Ben Henderson, who envisions a bus to somewhere other than directly to the airport, with another bus serving as a connection.

"If we think we're getting an airport connection by sending a bus to Leduc with a feeder bus," says Henderson, "that's not going to serve the city of Edmonton at all, and I'd be really surprised if that's what ends up on the table"

The idea has been put off until the spring, to see what the regional plan looks like.(sj/bp)

[M. Parsons]

Betcha Bob can't get anything happening before April.

What's the point of an advisory board made up of citizens if council doesn't listen to them?

[T6H-5307N]

What's the point of an advisory board made up of citizens if council doesn't listen to them?

Advisory boards are just like consultants; they are asked for input when a decision has already been made.

[M. Parsons]

Advisory boards are just like consultants; they are asked for input when a decision has already been made.

No, consultants are used to justify the decision that has already been made.

[T6H-5307N]

Either way the decision is made without taking true input into account

[Michael Marriott]

My two cents - it's going to be a while until the region even has the capacity to run a bus to the airport, since they don't have any organization, structure or planning. Not to mention the little fact that they have no buses, and that a regional transit authority doesn't even exist in practical terms right now. So, we have to wait a couple years for them to get organized and get buses before they can even think about starting service.

Not to mention, this is a service to Edmonton residents, since it is the city's airport. It is a complete embarassment that Edmonton has no bus service to the airport.

[Modulator]

My two cents - it's going to be a while until the region even has the capacity to run a bus to the airport, since they don't have any organization, structure or planning. Not to mention the little fact that they have no buses, and that a regional transit authority doesn't even exist in practical terms right now.

And they have no money to run any kind of transit service, since the province deferred new transit funding...

[M. Parsons]

And they have no money to run any kind of transit service, since the province deferred new transit funding...

Of course Bob probably neglected to tell council that.

I seem to recall the Beaumont service provided by ETS was partially funded by the government. I don't believe the government renewed it's funding for that service.

[A. Wong]

Airport bus service has competition from capital region

Inter-municipal transit plan already in works: committee

BY KAREN KLEISS, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMNOVEMBER 18, 2009 7:09 AM

Passengers get on an Edmonton Transit bus.

Photograph by: Brian Gavriloff, Edmonton Journal

EDMONTON — A proposal to offer city bus service to Edmonton International Airport hit a snag Tuesday when city councillors learned similar plans are underway at the regional level.

The proposal, put forward by the Edmonton Transit System Advisory Board, recommends an 18-month pilot project that would see city buses travel from the Century Park LRT station to the airport every 30 minutes between 5:30 a.m. and 1 a.m. The service would cost$2.50 more than a transit ticket. Service would begin next spring.

However, the city's transportation and public works committee heard Tuesday the Capital Region Board has also been considering the creation of an inter-municipal bus service that will not only take Edmontonians to the airport but also serve Leduc and Nisku.

The Capital Region Board brings 25 municipalities together to plan growth in the capital region. Edmonton city councillor Ed Gibbons sits on the Capital Region Board's transit committee, which submitted its inter-municipal transit plan to the province in March.

"You're jumping the queue on what is happening in the region," Gibbons said of the new proposal. "The airport is not the answer to keep these buses flowing, you need Leduc and Nisku."

The regional board is trying to access provincial money earmarked for environmentally friendly public transit, so the board created projects that could benefit from that funding, like express bus service between the airport, Leduc, Nisku and the Century Park LRT station. It is not clear when or if that funding will become available.

Under that proposal, however, airport travellers may have to stop at a transit hub in Nisku before heading to the airport, an additional stop Coun. Ben Henderson said would not serve Edmontonians.

Coun. Linda Sloan said a bus to the airport is long overdue. "The pilot should be the first step in an LRT expansion to the international airport that should be paid for by the province," she said. "If our provincial government wasn't so inherently cheap, it would already be done."

The city's transportation committee also heard from United Cabbies Association of Edmonton president Balraj Manhas, who said taxi drivers will suffer if the city offers public transit to the airport. "There is strong opposition from the taxi industry," he said. "Our own tax money will be used against the taxi industry and other car-for-hire businesses."

Currently, a trip to the airport costs more than $50 by taxi and $15 on the Sky Shuttle, which leaves from hotels.

A survey of 600 airport passengers conducted by the Edmonton Transit System Advisory Board found 53 per cent of those surveyed would likely use the proposed service.

The advisory board estimates the bus service would cost $2 million a year to operate, but says the business will break even if the service attracts an average of 27 passengers per trip. If more people ride the bus, the bus service will make money.

The advisory board report recommends launching the airport transit service in April 2010, at the same time the city opens the Century Park LRT station. The station will be built in the area of 111th Street near 23rd Avenue, just blocks from the Anthony Henday and 20 minutes from the airport.

Councillors have asked the administration to prepare a report on the status of the Capital Region Board's discussions and the feasibility of implementing the advisory board's proposal. The committee will revisit the issue March 16.

kkleiss@thejournal.canwest.com

© Copyright © The Edmonton Journal

Source: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Airpor...4004/story.html

[Modulator]

And they have no money to run any kind of transit service, since the province deferred new transit funding...

Hey, the media finally picked up on that:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/...3897/story.html

"Money budgeted as part of a highly touted $2-billion allocation for "green" light rail and public transportation projects has been quietly shelved this year by the deficit-ridden Alberta government...The province's second-quarter update released this week shows that at least $10 million in spending that was supposed to go to Green TRIP this year has been cancelled, with no specific future spending timeline."

Though this has been known for some time, the City's report on the airport bus claims that the regional board had its eye on an airport bus service "in order to encourage the Province to keep the provincial GreenTRIP program in place".

The amount of buck-passing that can go on between three (well, two-and-a-half) levels of government can be astonishing--does it say something about the priority they all place on public transit?

[A. Wong]

And a column from Brian Gould entitled Bizarre arguments against airport transit link in today's Metro.

[Uwe]

I have sent several letters to ETS requesting transit service to the International Airport. The responses I got back basically said that ETS cannot provide service to areas outside of the city boundaries using city of edmonton taxpayer money to subsidize the service. The region must pay full operating costs of the service, like they do for spruce grove, fort sask and edmonton garrison. The International Airport pays its taxes to Leduc County and nothing to Edmonton. So yes, Edmonton does need transit service to the airport, but which trips/routes would you like to see cancelled in order to pay for the service because dollars to donuts you won't see council giving ETS any money to run this service so the money has to come from somewhere...which is why the big wait to see what the capital region board does.

[A. Wong]

-Besides what is being used for Spruce Grove, Fort Sask and the Garrison?

I hope to hell they do not run Glavals to the airport.