Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Orion V]

They do have a 39F to Finch Station sign.

They just use the 39E instead.

When they had 39C and 39G expresses, their westbound signage were always 39E. I've never seen them use any express branch other than E if they went to the same destination. This goes for any other TTC routes with more than one express branch; when they have common destination, they would always use the "E" branch.

Do you have photographs showing them use a non "E" branch if they're not going to a subway station/common destination within that route?

Since you brought it up; what about the local branches? When they head to a subway station/common destination within the route, don't they always use the "vanilla" branch?

Eg. Westbound 53, 53A, 53B = 53. Westbound 53E, 53F = 53E. etc.

[63 Ossington]

Not necessarily valid in that context, but almost every day I see a 7 Bathurst SB short turn to St.Clair West and the most common desto exposure is "7A Bathurst to SCW", but there's also occasionally a "7C Bathurst to SCW" and "7S Bathurst Short Turn" One would think that a short turn would utilize the "7S" exposure most often, but in this case, there is an actual exposure (well, 2) that shows the actual destination.

[ttcgeek]

When they had 39C and 39G expresses, their westbound signage were always 39E. I've never seen them use any express branch other than E if they went to the same destination. This goes for any other TTC routes with more than one express branch; when they have common destination, they would always use the "E" branch.

Do you have photographs showing them use a non "E" branch if they're not going to a subway station/common destination within that route?

Since you brought it up; what about the local branches? When they head to a subway station/common destination within the route, don't they always use the "vanilla" branch?

Eg. Westbound 53, 53A, 53B = 53. Westbound 53E, 53F = 53E. etc.

I don't have photographic evidence of the 39F being used towards Finch Station, but I have observed it being put up before.

AFAIK, the only local branch that doesn't use the vanilla branch sign to a station is the 35A. I haven't seen it being done on other routes with more than one branch.

[Articulated]

I don't have photographic evidence of the 39F being used towards Finch Station, but I have observed it being put up before.

AFAIK, the only local branch that doesn't use the vanilla branch sign to a station is the 35A. I haven't seen it being done on other routes with more than one branch.

35A operates via Hullmar (as opposed to the other 35 branches operating via Jane), so it needs to use a different exposure - the 35A to Jane Stn via Hullmar sign. Since the 35A and 35C both share the same loop at the north end, anyone boarding at Jane and Steeles wanting to get off on Hullmar would not know which bus to take if all branches used the 35 to Jane Stn sign.

On the other hand, the 39F operated along the same routing as the 39C/E/G and therefore used the same 39E to Finch Stn exposure as the other express branches. I'm not sure how it works now though since the 39F is the only express branch remaining on route 39; I personally doubt the TTC bothered to change that (or even eliminate the other branches from the sign).

Most routes use the same format as the 39 - 'vanilla' branch when heading to a common termini such as the subway station. Routes that have a diversion in the middle of the route (such as the 35A) are required to use their own branch letter in order to identify that it uses the diversion.

[smallspy]

91 has a pair of branches that use destination sign formats that differ from the usual - 91F and 91D.

I'm sure that if you were to look hard enough that you would find quite a few more.

Dan

[wil9402]

91 has a pair of branches that use destination sign formats that differ from the usual - 91F and 91D.

I'm sure that if you were to look hard enough that you would find quite a few more.

Dan

Going back to what Articulated said in his post, 91D and F don't follow the 'main' route down to Woodbine Station. 91F serves Railside Rd on the way down in PM peak and 91D uses Victoria Park-Sunrise-O'Connor IIRC, so they need to show the branch letter to differentiate between the 91/91A/91C that use the 'main' route down to Woodbine and 91D/91F that don't.

[Orion V]

The other 2 I know of off the top of my head are 85/85A going WB and 107B going SB. 107B goes via Chesswood and the 85A is different since it has Don Mills Stn in between two branches that goes on either side of it. 85A EB sign is always to Rouge Hill GO while the "other" way is always to Don Mills Stn. IIRC, west of Don Mills the EB bus is 85A (during daytimes) while the WB bus is 85. East of Don Mills, the EB sign (if going to Meadowvale) is 85 while WB will always be 85A (during daytimes) since they never go west of Don Mills.

In summary, TTC programmers don't usually create a non vanilla branch for routes that go to subway stations if they follow the same routing as the other branches of that route. This is why I questioned about that 39F sign going to Finch when they have the 39E WB sign to use (not saying you're lying ttcgeek; but just got me wondering...).

[D40-90]

What year did TTC get the Demo Orion 3? And how long was the D40LF Demo with TTC for in 1995?

[Downsview 108]

What year did TTC get the Demo Orion 3? And how long was the D40LF Demo with TTC for in 1995?

I don't think there was a demo Orion III. There was a Van Hool artic demo in 1986 or 1987 though.

[D40-90]

I don't think there was a demo Orion III. There was a Van Hool artic demo in 1986 or 1987 though.

There was, I saw a picture but I don't know what year it was.

[D. DeLarge]

There was, I saw a picture,but I don't know what year it was.

Probably between 1984 and 1988:

Ontario Bus Industries Fleet # DEMO 1984 OBI 03.501 VIN: E5006483 - to St. Catharine's Transit 8441, 1988

[Orion V]

Question regarding "special" branches of the TTC bus routes & and Wilson/Downsview early morning combo:

1)

Does anyone know why the TTC site doesn't show any info on route 117B?

I know this branch exists cause it does one trip every morning stopping at SW corner of Dufferin St and Steeles Ave W at around 5:58am. It basically goes to Wilson Stn but also stops at Downsview Stn as oppose to the early morning 105A which goes straight to Wilson Stn without stopping at Downsview Stn.

I thought the only branches not shown on TTC sites are the school specials but 117B is not a school special is it?

Only info on it is on Google Maps when you click on the 117 southbound times for a weekday and you can see one trip called 117B.

2)

Any other hidden branches of routes that still exists now but is NOT a school special? If so, what is the use of it?

3)

What's with these special early morning branches that go to Wilson Stn? I thought they were initially created before Downsview Stn was built hence giving connections to people with Wilson Stn bound routes. Why do they still do it now with Downsview opened for 15 years?

4)

Are there other branches that do something like this in other subway stations? For example (I'm just making this up to make a point) a 53 Steeles East bus going westbound does one trip in the morning as 53D that skips Finch but goes to Sheppard Yonge Stn. If not, what makes the Downsview/Wilson early morning combo so special that other end stations on the subway line don't have? Kipling/Islington Stn, Kennedy/Warden, Finch/SheppardYonge.

[rob9701]

If there was still no subway running those early buses likely go to Wilson to allow people to make a connection to a night bus?

[Downsview 108]

There was, I saw a picture but I don't know what year it was.

sorry, my bad

[D40-90]

sorry, my bad

Sorry for what? lol

68 Warden extends to Danforth in the early Mornings to connect with the night buses.

If there was still no subway running those early buses likely go to Wilson to allow people to make a connection to a night bus?

[Articulated]

Question regarding "special" branches of the TTC bus routes & and Wilson/Downsview early morning combo:

1)

Does anyone know why the TTC site doesn't show any info on route 117B?

I know this branch exists cause it does one trip every morning stopping at SW corner of Dufferin St and Steeles Ave W at around 5:58am. It basically goes to Wilson Stn but also stops at Downsview Stn as oppose to the early morning 105A which goes straight to Wilson Stn without stopping at Downsview Stn.

I thought the only branches not shown on TTC sites are the school specials but 117B is not a school special is it?

Only info on it is on Google Maps when you click on the 117 southbound times for a weekday and you can see one trip called 117B.

3)

What's with these special early morning branches that go to Wilson Stn? I thought they were initially created before Downsview Stn was built hence giving connections to people with Wilson Stn bound routes. Why do they still do it now with Downsview opened for 15 years?

The presence of Wilson Yard between Wilson and Downsview means that the majority of trains being released for service do so beginning SB, so their first stop is Wilson. There are trains released from Wilson Yard going NB to start at Downsview, but since the first ones begin at Wilson, the first few trips on many routes feeding into Downsview are extended to Wilson. After the last train departs Downsview routes are also extended to Wilson in order to meet with the 319 and 329 Blue Night buses (since Downsview has no night service).

Since these branches are identical to the day routes, just with an extension from the subway termini, and they only operate a very few trips in the very early AM and late PM, the TTC doesn't bother mentioning them on the schedule in case someone thinks they can board the 106A from Wilson during the middle of the day.

105A, 106A, 107A, 108B, 117B are the ones extended to Wilson. Specifically, the 106 mentions on its schedule an arrival at Sheppard/Keele of 1:30xm, 2:00xm and 2:30xm on the 106A branches, which is after the last subway leaves Downsview.

[Orion V]

The presence of Wilson Yard between Wilson and Downsview means that the majority of trains being released for service do so beginning SB, so their first stop is Wilson. There are trains released from Wilson Yard going NB to start at Downsview, but since the first ones begin at Wilson, the first few trips on many routes feeding into Downsview are extended to Wilson. After the last train departs Downsview routes are also extended to Wilson in order to meet with the 319 and 329 Blue Night buses (since Downsview has no night service).

Since these branches are identical to the day routes, just with an extension from the subway termini, and they only operate a very few trips in the very early AM and late PM, the TTC doesn't bother mentioning them on the schedule in case someone thinks they can board the 106A from Wilson during the middle of the day.

105A, 106A, 107A, 108B, 117B are the ones extended to Wilson. Specifically, the 106 mentions on its schedule an arrival at Sheppard/Keele of 1:30xm, 2:00xm and 2:30xm on the 106A branches, which is after the last subway leaves Downsview.

Oh I see; so the main reasons are to connect to Blue Night routes as well as the location of the Wilson subway garage; both are which are not a problem for the other end stations of the subway.

Thanks.

[pc8556]

There was, I saw a picture but I don't know what year it was.

VAn Hool Demo was here Summer 1986

here is a photo operating FINCH EAST 39D

(there is another photo at Middlefield & Finch)

It was only here for a short time so they didn't bother with fancy route signs.

photo date is Aug 7, 1986

[wil9402]

Sorry for what? lol

68 Warden extends to Danforth in the early Mornings to connect with the night buses.

There is a (or are some) 68's that enter service off of 300 at Danforth Rd & Warden. I've witnesses this before. Also, There is at least one run on 16 on weekday evenings that extends down Warden to Danforth Rd before entering service on 300. I'm not 100% sure if it serves the stops along Warden but I'm quite certain it does.

[Orion V]

I just did close to an hour edit on the TTC Newlooks (2000s and 8000s) wiki pages since there were so many errors, missing and incorrect information. No doubt most people (not all!) who edited those two pages only consulted current websites with info on them and actually never rode every type of Newlook of the ex-8000s series (before and after their major rebuilt) to note every little changes (both between each batch and before/after the major rebuilt) in person.

Please don't change it back/undo without consulting!

[ttc9426]

Did Lawnsdowne garage ever have D901s? (around 1990 or 1991)

[D40-90]

VAn Hool Demo was here Summer 1986

here is a photo operating FINCH EAST 39D

(there is another photo at Middlefield & Finch)

It was only here for a short time so they didn't bother with fancy route signs.

photo date is Aug 7, 1986

I remember seeing this photo.

How was the GM artic split up in the 6 years they were here. I know Wilson, Eglinton and Malvern had them. Did they move togther from garage to garage or were they split up between garages.

[Orion V]

I remember seeing this photo.

How was the GM artic split up in the 6 years they were here. I know Wilson, Eglinton and Malvern had them. Did they move togther from garage to garage or were they split up between garages.

The 85 allocation shows all 12 at Malvern. Perhaps they operated route 81 since there are photos of them on that route besides 39.

[D40-90]

The 85 allocation shows all 12 at Malvern. Perhaps they operated route 81 since there are photos of them on that route besides 39.

Theres a few photos of them on 81. I also saw a picture of one on 60.

I've always wondered, did the Orion 3 and GM Artic run side by side in 1987?

[smallspy]

The 85 allocation shows all 12 at Malvern. Perhaps they operated route 81 since there are photos of them on that route besides 39.

When it wasn't based out of Danforth, the 81 was based out of Eglinton. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been based anywhere else.

Dan