TTC Service Changes

[WoodbineSecondExit]

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

Except for the watermain construction on Jones, and the divisional trainer with a student on the route, there is absolutely no excuse for the garbage service on the route, right?

 

Shute, it's one lane from Dundas to Queen on there right now, even the guy with the 52* badge is having trouble with it. That's one lane for both directions. Take a walk, it's more reliable.

All that traffic and congestion from construction at 10pm at night caused problems on a single trip alone. Any theories on how 3 of the 4 Greenwood buses managed to pile up at Coxwell station?

  

2 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

If you slow enough, on a short your like Jones, you'll be on time again. Lol. 

83 Jones has certainly gotten busier in the last 10 years. I remember when they had one bus during off peak periods. Now you have everyone going to Canadian tire, and the employment south of Queen. Lesile barns. Etc. Danforth is one lane now too, slowing it down as well.

A 30 minute round trip on a 30 minute headway and it was a tight one. Two buses for 15 minute headway during peak. It was the light cycle at Lake Shore that killed the route. They only added extra off peak service after Leslie Barns opened for employee transport. I don't think it was done to improve service for plebs.

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

A 30 minute round trip on a 30 minute headway and it was a tight one. Two buses for 15 minute headway during peak. It was the light cycle at Lake Shore that killed the route. They only added extra off peak service after Leslie Barns opened for employee transport. I don't think it was done to improve service for plebs.

You mean the light at Eastern. The light at Lakeshore isn't that bad.

 

But, not every employee is as competent as you would expect. Some love to fall back to schedule, and manipulate lateness to get a little extra time "effing the dog" at the ends. Some try extra hard to keep schedule and drive it like they stole it.

 

It doesn't take much of a blockage to make a bus 15 minutes late.

 

8 hours ago, CJ. said:

I am aware but I have noticed it has been routes near Birchmount itself. I seen this happen on 135 a couple times a week before the construction , 21,69,etc,etc. It depends where they want to send them for example (if there was further evaluation that the instructor saw fit after the original training then they would note down for them to be preferred to send on a route like 64,etc) And the newbies still struggle with that route 

Uh, no. Divisional training as part of initial bus training never sends a trainee to random places. It's possible in this case the divisional trainer was on spareboard and was given that work that day with the student to fill in an absence, but it isn't intentional like you are saying.

 

Usually what you are talking about is sending divisional trainers or supervisors to problem ops to see what their deal is, but this student was clearly in initial training and in civies, and doing a pretty damn good job driving that 83 bus through stuff that I would have trouble with

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Any theories on how 3 of the 4 Greenwood buses managed to pile up at Coxwell station?

Union meeting

[TransitMotorcoach]

12 hours ago, CJ. said:

They started taking them all the way to Donlands to do training now? Lol

I don't have a problem with any operator, I have a problem with the supervisors, the schedule planners, the management...

 

The best part of a poorly planned run schedule, being able to delay myself enough to miss trips all together, through self fixes by simply logging out of the block and logging back in at just the right time.  I don't even bother to call TCC to ask for a fix, I just do it myself.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

6 hours ago, Turtle said:

You mean the light at Eastern. The light at Lakeshore isn't that bad.

 

But, not every employee is as competent as you would expect. Some love to fall back to schedule, and manipulate lateness to get a little extra time "effing the dog" at the ends. Some try extra hard to keep schedule and drive it like they stole it.

 

It doesn't take much of a blockage to make a bus 15 minutes late.

The light at Lake Shore has always been a problem because it takes forever to cycle. The one at Eastern isn't nearly as bad. At times the left turn from Leslie to Queen can get backed up because Queen much like Lake Shore gets most of the green time. Jones itself is a quiet street. Traffic is low because it dead ends at Danforth and doesn't connect with Lake Shore at the south end. Ridership isn't all that heavy.

[Xtrazsteve]

36 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

The light at Lake Shore has always been a problem because it takes forever to cycle. The one at Eastern isn't nearly as bad. At times the left turn from Leslie to Queen can get backed up because Queen much like Lake Shore gets most of the green time. Jones itself is a quiet street. Traffic is low because it dead ends at Danforth and doesn't connect with Lake Shore at the south end. Ridership isn't all that heavy.

The amount of traffic that runs on Lake Shore is insanely higher than Leslie. Then you look at how many cars want to turn from Lake Shore eastbound onto Leslie northbound. Leslie is always so jammed up cause of this. If Jones/Leslie is one continuous route, traffic would be much smoother in the area.

[CJ.]

It seems like today is probably a day when some of the people out there at TC have went somewhat back in their senses. There's no longer 10 buses on 31 Greenwood and they are spread out better today. The RADs are doing 72 Pape, 62, 8 and other routes that actually need them, instead of just sending a ton of buses on a route to "increase reliability" which wasn't that bad to begin with. 8/62 are still in the shithole and the poor guy was ranting to me about how he has "literally no run time"

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

The light at Lake Shore has always been a problem because it takes forever to cycle. The one at Eastern isn't nearly as bad. At times the left turn from Leslie to Queen can get backed up

Southbound, the light at Eastern is stupid slow. Lakeshore is actually better imo. They (the buses) often get caught up at the "street" that goes between Wendy's and the Starbucks (ex Burger King).

 

Northbound Leslie at Queen is stupid slow too.

1 hour ago, CJ. said:

poor guy was ranting to me about how he has "literally no run time"

Drive faster then, or drive according to what is safe and take washroom breaks when you need them and don't care about the schedule. If you are late, and you have been sitting in that seat for 3+ hours, it probably is a good time to take a short walk around the bus, take a leak, and wash your face with some cold water on a paper towel.

 

It's not your problem that the schedule is stupid.

 

You know what, no matter how well you keep schedule, somebody is going to be unhappy with how you are doing your job. Karens will be Karens regardless...They are unhappy you are 2 minutes late. They are unhappy you are on time and they miss the bus because they aren't at the stop before you arrive. They are unhappy you are driving fast. They are unhappy you are driving slow to maintain schedule on a route with generous running time.

 

They are unhappy. Who cares. Just do your job and let the route supervisors on the console adjust you. Late for a relief? Adds up quickly and is very lucrative. The guy ahead is soaking you, not your problem, stop open up the doors, and pack em in, they aren't sitting on your lap. Guy ahead of you is super slow on a mode that you can't pass (rail) on a relief trip, remember who that is and when they need a favour refuse...otherwise book the ot and admire your bank account and how it's growing

2 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The amount of traffic that runs on Lake Shore is insanely higher than Leslie

Yes, and that's why the light is slow on Leslie

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

The best part of a poorly planned run schedule, being able to delay myself enough to miss trips all together, through self fixes by simply logging out of the block and logging back in at just the right time.  I don't even bother to call TCC to ask for a fix, I just do it myself.

Back in the trump days, we would short turn ourselves on a long end trip to a short end route if the supervisors wouldn't do anything with us. Or we would go dead slow and book 3x the amount of late in.

 

Then you get the eager employee just trying to do their job properly according to the rules, and they get shit on and assaulted because of all the other ops playing games. But, yeah, what you do doesn't effect anybody else right?

[FlyerD901]

2 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The amount of traffic that runs on Lake Shore is insanely higher than Leslie. Then you look at how many cars want to turn from Lake Shore eastbound onto Leslie northbound. Leslie is always so jammed up cause of this. If Jones/Leslie is one continuous route, traffic would be much smoother in the area.

When the Gardiner went to lesile , it was way better. But back then, there was no Canadian tire, no FreshCo, etc. 

The bus stop locations on Lesile were also better before they positioned them to accommodate streetcars. They had a bus stop south of lake shore where the Canadian tire was, skipping the right lane traffic on lesile. All those small things make a difference. 

[Xtrazsteve]

7 minutes ago, FlyerD901 said:

When the Gardiner went to lesile , it was way better. But back then, there was no Canadian tire, no FreshCo, etc. 

The bus stop locations on Lesile were also better before they positioned them to accommodate streetcars. They had a bus stop south of lake shore where the Canadian tire was, skipping the right lane traffic on lesile. All those small things make a difference. 

Well the carhouse is partially located on the loop ramp from the Gardiner.

Toronto transportation also gets a big fat zero when it comes to improving traffic conditions for transit. They would be like too little riders for the 83. They can’t even bat an eye for the busy routes.

[TransitMotorcoach]

1 hour ago, Turtle said:

Back in the trump days, we would short turn ourselves on a long end trip to a short end route if the supervisors wouldn't do anything with us. Or we would go dead slow and book 3x the amount of late in.

 

Then you get the eager employee just trying to do their job properly according to the rules, and they get shit on and assaulted because of all the other ops playing games. But, yeah, what you do doesn't effect anybody else right?

I am not going to kill myself trying to adhere to a run schedule that is the equivalent of torture and impossible to keep up with. What you call games, I call being a wise and safe operator.

[Kumiko Oumae]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:40 PM, wil9402 said:

70C ran every 26 minutes during midday, 26 minutes early evening and 30 minutes late evening on weekdays. 8 is currently operating every 24 minutes midday, 15 minutes early evening and 20 minutes late evening. I'd say that's quite the improvement. Don't see how you can complain about that.

The TTC has already acknowledged that there is insufficient running time on the 8/62. The schedule was made with the plan that the 8/62 would only operate to Broadview & Mortimer and not go south to Broadview Station. Plans at Broadview Station changed last minute and they couldn't adjust schedules or remove the interline in time. 

On the topic of the 8 BROADVIEW and 70 O'CONNOR, the extension to Warden was actually a proposal by the East York Council sent by the TTC in 1981 that the 70 replaced the 8 running from Broadview to Warden (70) and Eglinton (70A).  While the TTC gave birth to the 83 JONES (replaced the 8C via Donlands/Jones) and 87 COSBURN (replaced the 8 (Broadview-Donlands) and 91D/E) along with the re-routing of the 56 LEASIDE to Donlands, the 8/70 was not among them when the TTC restructured East York services in October 1984.

[CJ.]

3 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

On the topic of the 8 BROADVIEW and 70 O'CONNOR, the extension to Warden was actually a proposal by the East York Council sent by the TTC in 1981 that the 70 replaced the 8 running from Broadview to Warden (70) and Eglinton (70A).  While the TTC gave birth to the 83 JONES (replaced the 8C via Donlands/Jones) and 87 COSBURN (replaced the 8 (Broadview-Donlands) and 91D/E) along with the re-routing of the 56 LEASIDE to Donlands, the 8/70 was not among them when the TTC restructured East York services in October 1984.

All things said, it’s a miserable fail due to poor management and decisions. It could’ve ran fine but they decided to be a slug about it and if they were actually considering to make it permanent in the future I highly doubt it’ll happen now

if it was just run better, it would be a excellent alternative to subway closures, etc (it avoids the 1 lane on danforth that takes 2hrs to go a couple stations). But for some reason the TTC is absolutely despising adding more resources and buses on this route despite it having great future potential if done right

[TransitMotorcoach]

1 hour ago, CJ. said:

All things said, it’s a miserable fail due to poor management and decisions. It could’ve ran fine but they decided to be a slug about it and if they were actually considering to make it permanent in the future I highly doubt it’ll happen now

if it was just run better, it would be a excellent alternative to subway closures, etc (it avoids the 1 lane on danforth that takes 2hrs to go a couple stations). But for some reason the TTC is absolutely despising adding more resources and buses on this route despite it having great future potential if done right

The 26 Dupont during afternoon rush hour is quite a disaster too. The one lane portion from Lansdowne to Dundas, it takes FOREVER to get through due to the traffic light configuration at Dundas/Dupont/Annette. The 2-lane portions still have parked cars in the curb lane, and the traffic is at a standstill.

[CJ.]

10 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

The 26 Dupont during afternoon rush hour is quite a disaster too. The one lane portion from Lansdowne to Dundas, it takes FOREVER to get through due to the traffic light configuration at Dundas/Dupont/Annette. The 2-lane portions still have parked cars in the curb lane, and the traffic is at a standstill.

I would argue the 8 Broadview is on a whole different level. The garbage run time has resulted in severe delays and bunching on not only 8 Broadview, but it affected the 62 Mortimer significantly due to them interlining. It wasn't like this before this board period

[Kumiko Oumae]

3 hours ago, CJ. said:

I would argue the 8 Broadview is on a whole different level. The garbage run time has resulted in severe delays and bunching on not only 8 Broadview, but it affected the 62 Mortimer significantly due to them interlining. It wasn't like this before this board period

Having reading the July 21, 1991 service summary, 8 BROADVIEW ran every 12 minutes during peak periods, 16 minutes during midday and weekend daytime and every 15 minutes at all other times (evenings) with 2 buses were used on this route (3 during rush). This route only ran with one single bus every 30 minutes since the cuts of February 18, 1996.

[Shaun]

I was thinking that the first step to cleaning up the TTC would be to remove the homeless people sleeping in stations and remove people who are panhandling. 

There are homeless people permanently camped out infront of the station, in bus stops etc.  This needs to be taken care of.

These people need a place to go, and creating more shelter space or housing for these people should be a priority. People who have a mental illness or a drug problem require treatment, even if it's against their will. The mental health act today is too broad and the requirements for someone to be hospitalized for treatment against their will is too specific. The fact that they cannot take care of themselves should be enough reason to force them into treatment. 

 

 

[TransitMotorcoach]

40 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I was thinking that the first step to cleaning up the TTC would be to remove the homeless people sleeping in stations and remove people who are panhandling. 

There are homeless people permanently camped out infront of the station, in bus stops etc.  This needs to be taken care of.

These people need a place to go, and creating more shelter space or housing for these people should be a priority. People who have a mental illness or a drug problem require treatment, even if it's against their will. The mental health act today is too broad and the requirements for someone to be hospitalized for treatment against their will is too specific. The fact that they cannot take care of themselves should be enough reason to force them into treatment. 

 

 

A good first step in dealing with the homeless and mental health crisis is starting with the root causes of it. One of them being, very poor parenting the past 2 decades. Kids not having discipline and respect instilled in them, and the parents wanting to be their friend instead of being an actual parent. 

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

I was thinking that the first step to cleaning up the TTC would be to remove the homeless people sleeping in stations and remove people who are panhandling. 

There are homeless people permanently camped out infront of the station, in bus stops etc.  This needs to be taken care of.

These people need a place to go, and creating more shelter space or housing for these people should be a priority.

It has been a city of Toronto program since forever to let them ride for free on the system to relieve the burden on the shelter system, or to give them a place to go during the day when the shelters were otherwise closed. You just never noticed it in the past, other than the odd person selling their tokens in the stairwells at Dundas station.

 

Big city with all the services attracts people with needs, since that's where the help for them generally is. IMO a public transit system is for transit, not for shelter, but the government has other ideas. What they have been trying recently with the contract security and public health risk reduction people is a good idea, it's making a difference

1 hour ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

A good first step in dealing with the homeless and mental health crisis is starting with the root causes of it. One of them being, very poor parenting the past 2 decades. Kids not having discipline and respect instilled in them, and the parents wanting to be their friend instead of being an actual parent. 

How dare you tell me my kid is a brat.

 

In my completely uneducated opinion, the current problem is of drugs, not of homelessness.

[CJ.]

This is the government we voted for though. 

[TransitMotorcoach]

47 minutes ago, Turtle said:

 

How dare you tell me my kid is a brat.

 

In my completely uneducated opinion, the current problem is of drugs, not of homelessness.

Speaking of brats, I had a brat on my bus 3 weeks ago. A kid who looked to be 8 or 9 got on with his dad, and after sitting down, the kid took out his phone and started watching obscene rap videos on it, with the volume on high and no headphones on. You would think the father would tell his kid to either turn the volume down or put headphones on to show common courtesy and respect, but no, he just sat there, not saying anything, and letting his little hellian act a damn fool. Another passenger had to tell the brat to turn the volume down as others did not want to hear the crap the kid was listening to.

 

With that kind of poor parenting, that kid will definitely become a ticking time bomb with serious mental issues that will make him a danger to others.

[T3G]

This is the first I'm hearing that watching videos without headphones makes one a risk for serious mental issues. Do you have any literature to back up your claim?

[TransitMotorcoach]

1 minute ago, T3G said:

This is the first I'm hearing that watching videos without headphones makes one a risk for serious mental issues. Do you have any literature to back up your claim?

One does not need literature to know that watching obscene rap videos on-board a public bus with no headphones on is a very troubling sign of mental health issues. It is called common courtesy, respect, and self-discipline as well. The fact that the "father" of the kid continued to let him behave so disrespectfully and not showing consideration for others, it is a red flag. If the kid is not going to be corrected in regards to something so basic like this, it will only keep getting worse and worse.  Before you know it, the kid is now grown, out of control, and now society's problem to deal with. 

[Xtrazsteve]

16 minutes ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

One does not need literature to know that watching obscene rap videos on-board a public bus with no headphones on is a very troubling sign of mental health issues. It is called common courtesy, respect, and self-discipline as well. The fact that the "father" of the kid continued to let him behave so disrespectfully and not showing consideration for others, it is a red flag. If the kid is not going to be corrected in regards to something so basic like this, it will only keep getting worse and worse.  Before you know it, the kid is now grown, out of control, and now society's problem to deal with. 

I wouldn't call that mental issue. Some "barbarians" are just selfish and utter disrespect for others. I'm pretty sure the bylaw would allow him to be kicked off the bus and possibly fined if he was caught.