CTrain - U2 cars

[1604]

I was on car 2102, the middle car of a 3 car train. The front and back cars were SD160s. 2102's lights turned off and back on a few times during the trip... odd.

[LRT]

I was on car 2102, the middle car of a 3 car train. The front and back cars were SD160s. 2102's turned off and back on a few times during the trip... odd.

ah, the ex-Edmonton cars (3001-3002) , 2101 and 2102 did you see the Edmonton Transit build plates on the a and b ends?

[M. Parsons]

2102's turned off and back on a few times during the trip... odd.

I assume that's meant to read "2102's lights turned..."

I believe that is a common occurance on the 2 U2-AC's and would likley have something to do with the rotary converter or what ever component is used convert the 600V DC to the voltage used for the lighting and other equipment. I'm actually not to sure what voltage is used on the U2-AC cars. Edmonton's U-2 use a rotary converter, but will be refitted with a auxillary converter during refurbishment. Currently 1034 apparently has this auxillary converter installed.

Whenever the car hits a section insulator in the overhead (a dead section), the lights will blink off momentarily due to the loss of power to the auxillary converter. Apparenty the rotary converter is able to supply power for a short period of time while travelling through a dead section section.

FWIW, the U-2 cars aren't exactly ex- Edmonton. Edmonton Transit never owned these cars. They were owned by the provincial government and demonstarted in both Edmonton and Calgary, with Calgary ultimately purchasing the cars. The cars seem to be built more to Calgary specs (ie the lights by the destination sign), although, they do have Edmonton's style of plates.

As well, FWIW, Edmonton is planning to refurbish all 37 U-2's. They expect to get another 15-20 years out ot the cars. I would be very surprised if Calgary wasn't at least waiting to see how that works out for Edmonton, if not, already looking into something similar themselves.

[LRT]

As well, FWIW, Edmonton is planning to refurbish all 37 U-2's. They expect to get another 15-20 years out ot the cars. I would be very surprised if Calgary wasn't at least waiting to see how that works out for Edmonton, if not, already looking into something similar themselves.

Well I meant "ran in Edmonton", I actually remember them running there when they were new. You are right they were more of a Calgary car then Edmonton car besides that they were a AC car, they were very different.

Also I little off topic but I heard a "rumor" that the Edmonton cars are being converted from DC to AC at 2 million bucks a car (heard it from a electro mechanic) and Edmonton's new cars will be tested in Calgary (as a Siemens rep is housed at the Anderson garage in a trailer) funny hearing this stuff ....

[1604]

ah, the ex-Edmonton cars (3001-3002) , 2101 and 2102 did you see the Edmonton Transit build plates on the a and b ends?

Nope, didn't look either

I assume that's meant to read "2102's lights turned..."

Yep, fixed.

I believe that is a common occurance on the 2 U2-AC's and would likley have something to do with the rotary converter or what ever component is used convert the 600V DC to the voltage used for the lighting and other equipment. I'm actually not to sure what voltage is used on the U2-AC cars. Edmonton's U-2 use a rotary converter, but will be refitted with a auxillary converter during refurbishment. Currently 1034 apparently has this auxillary converter installed.

Whenever the car hits a section insulator in the overhead (a dead section), the lights will blink off momentarily due to the loss of power to the auxillary converter. Apparenty the rotary converter is able to supply power for a short period of time while travelling through a dead section section.

Thanks for the explanation

[A. Wong]

 

Also I little off topic but I heard a "rumor" that the Edmonton cars are being converted from DC to AC at 2 million bucks a car (heard it from a electro mechanic) and Edmonton's new cars will be tested in Calgary (as a Siemens rep is housed at the Anderson garage in a trailer) funny hearing this stuff ....

Not sure about the conversion, but the manager of ETS quoted $2 million per car for refurbishment.

[LRT]

Not sure about the conversion, but the manager of ETS quoted $2 million per car for refurbishment.

wow, that half the price of a new car...

[CTrainDude]

As well, FWIW, Edmonton is planning to refurbish all 37 U-2's. They expect to get another 15-20 years out ot the cars. I would be very surprised if Calgary wasn't at least waiting to see how that works out for Edmonton, if not, already looking into something similar themselves.

Calgary Transit has already looked at it, and are not going to do it...they don't think it's worth the cost; they'd rather buy more SD160s. They're not even doing 'G' checks anymore or major accident reconstructions, which is why 2019 and 2050 are on the Anderson North Tailtrack under grey tarps. Once a U2 is severely damaged, its scrapped and used for parts for minor repairs on other U2s.

[smallspy]

I assume that's meant to read "2102's lights turned..."

I believe that is a common occurance on the 2 U2-AC's and would likley have something to do with the rotary converter or what ever component is used convert the 600V DC to the voltage used for the lighting and other equipment. I'm actually not to sure what voltage is used on the U2-AC cars. Edmonton's U-2 use a rotary converter, but will be refitted with a auxillary converter during refurbishment. Currently 1034 apparently has this auxillary converter installed.

Whenever the car hits a section insulator in the overhead (a dead section), the lights will blink off momentarily due to the loss of power to the auxillary converter. Apparenty the rotary converter is able to supply power for a short period of time while travelling through a dead section section.

FWIW, the U-2 cars aren't exactly ex- Edmonton. Edmonton Transit never owned these cars. They were owned by the provincial government and demonstarted in both Edmonton and Calgary, with Calgary ultimately purchasing the cars. The cars seem to be built more to Calgary specs (ie the lights by the destination sign), although, they do have Edmonton's style of plates.

As well, FWIW, Edmonton is planning to refurbish all 37 U-2's. They expect to get another 15-20 years out ot the cars. I would be very surprised if Calgary wasn't at least waiting to see how that works out for Edmonton, if not, already looking into something similar themselves.

By "rotary convertor" you mean the motor/alternator (MA) set, correct?

Generally what happens is that the motor has enough inertia that a momentary lapse in power will only cause the motor to start coasting, which still allows it to provide power to the alternator. So long as the alternator continues to spin, it will continue to produce AC current.

Static invertors have no moving parts, so when power is removed from the one side of the circuit, it also loses the ability to produce power. There are ways around this however, such as using batteries/capacitors on the DC portion of the circuit.

Dan

[M. Parsons]

By "rotary convertor" you mean the motor/alternator (MA) set, correct?

Generally what happens is that the motor has enough inertia that a momentary lapse in power will only cause the motor to start coasting, which still allows it to provide power to the alternator. So long as the alternator continues to spin, it will continue to produce AC current.

Static invertors have no moving parts, so when power is removed from the one side of the circuit, it also loses the ability to produce power. There are ways around this however, such as using batteries/capacitors on the DC portion of the circuit.

Dan

Didn't see your reply until Dan. That's more or less what I was getting at.

Anyways, found some stuff on the U2-AC's. I don't believe they are technically known as U2-AC's, but that moniker certainly seem have to have stuck, at least in this hobby.

I believe this was from Railway Age.

The first modern North American light rail equipment to employ a.c. propulsion was a pair of modified Siemens Duewag U2 vehicles completed in 1988 for a test program on the Edmonton and Calgary light rail systems. These cars employ two independent current supply inverters, one for each power truck, which are fitted with a hermetically-sealed evaporative bath cooling system designed to overcome the dust or dry snow problems that might be encountered with a more conventional air-cooled arrangement. All heat-generating components of the inverters are cooled by a refrigerant which is vaporized and re-condensed on the casing walls.

The two vehicles employ microprocessor-based traction controls, which also monitor such automatic safety functions as wheelslip and jerk control, and activation of mechanical braking where necessary. A fault detection package is also included. Each power truck is fitted with two 136 kW (182 hp) transverse-mounted self-ventilated six-pole squirrel cage induction motors, each driving one axle through a double-reduction gear train.

After extended tests in Edmonton,the two vehicles were shifted to Calgary, where they have operated since mid-1990. According to Calgary Transit's superintendent of engineering and maintenance, John H. Chaput, the a.c. systems have performed adequately, and have produced energy savings of 20% to 30&.

Electro-magnetic interference emanating from the a.c. system represents a potential problem, and the Calgary test was marred by a persistent problem of this nature. Calgary Transit uses a VETAG train identification system which automatically selects routes at intersections and crossoversand feeds the mimic board in the control center. According to Chaput, the two a.c. cars generated a high frequency electro-magnetic interference in the 100 kHz range corresponding to the frequencies used by the VETAG system interogators and transponders. While no false messages were transmitted as a result, the interference often garbled the message from the transponders to the extent that nothing happened. The problem was resolved through adequate shielding.

"We anticipate that in any future order calling for a.c. powered equipment," says Chaput, "a specification ensuring that there is no interference, or at least severely limiting the EMI in this frequency range, will be part of the specification."

[38 Highland Creek]

Just for the record, 2010 was the one that was split into two several years ago. It was wrecked in March of 2002 at 4th Avenue and 9th St. while the train was headed outbound to Brentwood.

Oh yeah, I remember that one. 2010 Got involved in a horrible accident with a pickup truck and went off the rails, but there were no fatalities during that event.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

A certain member of this board drove very nicely on my southbound route 201 that I rode from Downtown to Chinook Station on Thursday evening at about 1855 while he did his mentorship driving. Consist was car #2058, 2029, and 2047 (I was in middle car - 2029 and lead car was 2058). Nice work!

[M. Parsons]

This was taken with a 300mm lens on a Sony A100 SLR body, which amounts to about 420mm with 1.6X magnification factor on with that body. I then cropped the image down to bring the train in even closer.

Originally, I thought this photo was interesting because of the different heights of the pantographs. Looking at it further... the track looks more like a roller coaster!

Even look at the trucks on the U2's... some appear to be hitting bumps as the photo was taken.

I believe I was on the Centre Street plaform when I took this photo, and mike from edmonton's 300mm Minolta lens is a sweet combination of metal and glass.

[mersar]

Looks like 2065 and another U2 (2009?) were involved in a collision today with a car downtown, didn't look like any damage fortunately from what they showed on the news tonight.

[LRT]

Interesting shot Martin, love how it makes the road look like something from Regina Wonder how much clearance there really is between the road and the trucks.

I noticed that a few days ago, like 2 or 3 inches...if that, I'll try to take a pick maybe tommorow

[TransitOp]

Looks like 2065 and another U2 (2009?) were involved in a collision today with a car downtown, didn't look like any damage fortunately from what they showed on the news tonight.

Car 2065 was the one that came into contact with the vehicle.

[LRT]

car 2009 was my first revenue train I ever drove by myself!

[LRT]

Car 2004 blew it's rotary converter today!

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Car 2004 blew it's rotary converter today!

You gotta stop breaking your LRV cars! :-p

[LRT]

You gotta stop breaking your LRV cars! :-p

I didn't do it!!!

[M. Parsons]

Car 2004 blew it's rotary converter today!

What is CT doing if/ when they can't get certain parts... such as a rotary converter?

Edmonton is replacing the rotary converters with a auxiliary converter and three-phase filter as the cars are refurbished. Of course, I guess CT could buy ETS's old rotary converters.

[mersar]

The retired U2's will be sourced for parts, so I'd imagine if its a major part that can't be fabricated easily then the affected car may end up on the retirement line itself if there are no previously retired cars with one that can be used. Due to this policy I'd imagine that we may start to see one or two U2's a year getting retired in the near future, a combination of ones damaged in accidents and others just from lack of parts.

[LRT]

Car 2011 blew it's rotary converter today!!

[TransitOp]

The retired U2's will be sourced for parts, so I'd imagine if its a major part that can't be fabricated easily then the affected car may end up on the retirement line itself if there are no previously retired cars with one that can be used. Due to this policy I'd imagine that we may start to see one or two U2's a year getting retired in the near future, a combination of ones damaged in accidents and others just from lack of parts.

They likely won't retire that many U2 cars until new ones are bought because with what they have now, they are barely meeting their commitment for hours of service, etc.

[mersar]

Well we've heard that the next order has already been placed (though not officially announced so far), we know that it has to be a minimum of 34 that are needed between the XRT, NELRT and WLRT projects, and possibly as many as 70 some that are listed in some city budget documents for the next few years. The 34 are needed to be here by 2012 or so, which means they'll be on the production line as soon as ETS's current order is done in early 2010)