GOA transit news, info etc

[Mark Walton]

On 3/19/2024 at 1:51 PM, tomsbuspage said:

The slides for yesterday's Transit Commission meeting are available on the City's website:

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=173476

Could this be the live link? Subject matter - Report to Committee (escribemeetings.com)

[tomsbuspage]

4 hours ago, Mark Walton said:

Could this be the live link? Subject matter - Report to Committee (escribemeetings.com)

No, it was a PowerPoint presentation.  I've provided an updated link and pdf copy here:

[CanadianBrick1]

Well they got the new ways to bus link up and going: https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/service-changes/new-ways-to-bus

[tomsbuspage]

1 hour ago, CanadianBrick1 said:

Well they got the new ways to bus link up and going: https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/service-changes/new-ways-to-bus

Thanks for the link!

So OC are discontinuing the Rapid route category and changing the colour of the Frequent routes to blue.  That means OC will need to replace a lot of bus stops.

[GTAmissions1]

Going through the map and changes, it is a pretty massive revamp with some routes being extended while others such as peak extensions replaced with separate routes. 

Route 7 Brittany: Replaced with Routes 17 and 20

Route 12: Replacing Route 16 between Tunney's and Rideau 

Route 60: Provides a more direct route to Real Canadian Superstore Kanata 

Route 98: Replacing Route 97 providing continuous service between South Keys to Hurdman 

Final comments:

I only touched on a handful that are noticeable, but the list of course documents over 100 route changes. Some routes being retired such as the local/limited and connexion routes due to low ridership and adjacent service nearby that can accommodate. 

Shifting away from rapid routes to frequent service routes is simply a marketing change. Rapid routes were marketed as quick station to station service via Transitway or highway. With the extension of the light rail network, frequent seems to be more of the better marketing approach to promote connectivity to transit stations. 

I do notice that some routes are structured to avoid duplication where possible. I remember where I would see the crowd board the 97 which operated more frequently and picked up the crowd at South Keys. The 98 would simply pickup whoever was left behind and continue on. 

The overhaul changes don't take effect until Line 2 and 4 open to implement the change being the major foundation. 

[CanadianBrick1]

2 hours ago, tomsbuspage said:

Thanks for the link!

So OC are discontinuing the Rapid route category and changing the colour of the Frequent routes to blue.  That means OC will need to replace a lot of bus stops.

You're welcome! 

I was thinking about the signage too. Although I find the blue/white easier to see compared to orange/white

[TransitGeek]

5 hours ago, CanadianBrick1 said:

Well they got the new ways to bus link up and going: https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/service-changes/new-ways-to-bus

Did the people who even made this map even check it when they were done? Mistakes are all over the place. I didn't know the 23 went to Tunney’s Pasture. Where's the 97? It says it goes to South Keys!! Frequent route 125 AND local limited 125?

 

As well half the connexion routes should be reclassified. It makes no sense route 294 or 299 are considered connexions when they're just feeders from the closest train station without any element of express whatsoever.

 

I thought OC Transpo wanted faster and more reliable routes meanwhile they make route 10 run through downtown and replace the 16 eastbound, make the 24 a massive winding route, etc.

[hyperpandiculation]

OC's really given up on the "5-99 connect to Line 1, 100-199 don't" numbering scheme they tried to introduce back in 2019, haven't they? I know there were a few routes that didn't fit the pattern, but that new 2024 draft, I'm seeing:

• Don't: 31, 36, 43, 49, 58, 68, 70, 93, 94, 99
• Do: 125

As far as I can tell, there're plenty of available 1xx route numbers for the offending routes.

[bsnider001]

17 hours ago, hyperpandiculation said:

OC's really given up on the "5-99 connect to Line 1, 100-199 don't" numbering scheme they tried to introduce back in 2019, haven't they? I know there were a few routes that didn't fit the pattern, but that new 2024 draft, I'm seeing:

• Don't: 31, 36, 43, 49, 58, 68, 70, 93, 94, 99
• Do: 125

As far as I can tell, there're plenty of available 1xx route numbers for the offending routes.

Routes 58 and 68 would connect to LRT once Line 1 extends to Algonquin and Line 3 extends to Moodie (route 68 at Algonquin to Line 1; route 58 at Bayshore to Line 3). The rest of the routes I cannot comment on.

[CanadianBrick1]

The 31 and 36 will eventually connect to Lines 1 and 3 at Place d'Orleans. The 43 will connect to Line 2 at Greenboro, plus Line 2 and 4 at South Keys. The 49 does currently connect with Line 1 at Hurdman but due to the rerouting it won't connect to any trains. Route 70 will connect to Line 2 at Limebank. Routes 93 and 94 will connect to Line 2 at Leitrim, and the 99 will connect to Line 2 at Limebank. The 125 is probably a special exception to this rule due to the fact it's a replacement for the 25.

[hyperpandiculation]

Sure, a few of those routes will eventually connect to an extended line 1/3 once those extensions finally open, but those are still at least a year off. As for the routes that never will, and only connect through line 2, if that is the new standard (and not the one currently detailed on OC Transpo's website in multiple places), then the category of inappropriately assigned 1xx routes grows dramatically (110, 111, 112, 116, 117, 197, 198).

Just seems like another instance of easily avoidable bad communication.

[tomsbuspage]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:59 PM, TransitGeek said:

I thought OC Transpo wanted faster and more reliable routes meanwhile they make route 10 run through downtown and replace the 16 eastbound, make the 24 a massive winding route, etc.

Looking back, this will be the third time that route 4/10 has been rerouted through Sandy Hill since 1959.  This time, route 10 is to replace route 16, which in turn had replaced route 4 in Sandy Hill in 1994.

The first time started when the Bronson and Templeton routes were consolidated as route 4 BRONSON/MANN-CHAPEL.  When OC Transpo introduced new rollsigns in 1974, the eastern end of the route was renamed 4 LEES-MAIN.  This arrangement lasted until June 1981, when route 4 was rerouted to St. Laurent Shopping Centre via Rideau St., New Edinburgh, Manor Park and St. Laurent Blvd. along what is now route 7.  Route 41/14 would serve Sandy Hill between 1981 and 1989, when it was replaced by route 16.

1959:

The second time started in June 1990 when route 4 replaced route 16 in Sandy Hill.  Route 4 had already been rerouted to the Smyth Road Hospital Complex in June 1989.  This arrangement lasted until June 1994 when route 4 was redirected through Lowertown to Lindenlea and Rockcliffe to replace route 1.  In turn, route 4 was replaced in Sandy Hill by route 16, which still serves the community today, and Communibus route 316.

1990:

1994:

2024 (proposed):

[Old bus enthusiast]

With most, if not all Connexion routes possibly being phased out as the O-Train system expands, it may time time to redo the bus route numbering pattern as follows:

5-99 for those serving Ottawa and Nepean.

100-149 for those serving Gloucester.

150-199 for those serving Orleans, Cumberland and Navan.

200-249 for those serving Kanata.

250-299 for those serving Stittsville.

N39 and N75 combined as route 805.

N57 and N97 combined as route 807.

N45 renumbered 815.

N61 renumbered 801.

[Centralsmt]

22 hours ago, Old bus enthusiast said:

With most, if not all Connexion routes possibly being phased out as the O-Train system expands, it may time time to redo the bus route numbering pattern as follows:

5-99 for those serving Ottawa and Nepean.

100-149 for those serving Gloucester.

150-199 for those serving Orleans, Cumberland and Navan.

200-249 for those serving Kanata.

250-299 for those serving Stittsville.

N39 and N75 combined as route 805.

N57 and N97 combined as route 807.

N45 renumbered 815.

N61 renumbered 801.

Why?

Constantly renumbering routes causes even more confusion to travellers.

[CanadianBrick1]

Ottawa is also not nearly large enough to require 50 route numbers per area. Orleans only will use 30-36, 38-39 and 138. Kanata's a little more tight at 60-63, 66-68, 161-163, 165, 168. And even as was said, once the connexion routes are gone, we'd also get the 200 series available so now every area would have 30 available route numbers, which for some is overkill.

[MCIBUS]

I can't comment on how OC use route numbers and how they disburse them, but unless Ottawa gets 100 thousand+ new residents in the next 5 years I can't see OC using tons of routes numbers in one section of the city. Perhaps in 20+ years maybe and that's maybe I can see it, but not in till then.  And who knows what might happen in 10 years OC might do a revamp of the whole system again it's any ones guess, time will tell. Who knows how far OC will go. True there are areas of the city that hasn't have OC service Metcalf, Greely, Vars, Kars, etc, remember how large Ottawa is geographically is.

[tomsbuspage]

10 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

True there are areas of the city that hasn't have OC service Metcalf, Greely, Vars, Kars, etc, remember how large Ottawa is geographically is.

Keep in mind that Ottawa's rural communities have to want OC service before they get it.  These areas of the city enjoy lower property taxes because they are not part the Urban Transit Area or Rural Transit Area A, and so only receive Para Transpo service:

[ZümmyZüm]

I honestly wouldn't be against renumbering and having "gaps" it helps separate the parts of the city and makes it clearer for wayfinding

For us it would be simple because of our large geographical landmark. And the point is to keep things simple, having route 39 in the east and 40 in the south doesn't help people understand 

Kanata/stittville 100

Barrhaven/nepean 200 

Ottawa south 300 

Orleans 400 

Downtown 0-50

[tomsbuspage]

It will be interesting to see how this affects transit in Ottawa:

CTV: Ontario to take over Hwy. 174 in Ottawa's east end

[JCL]

2 minutes ago, tomsbuspage said:

It will be interesting to see how this affects transit in Ottawa:

CTV: Ontario to take over Hwy. 174 in Ottawa's east end

What the City of Ottawa wants is the Provincial Government (and the Federal Goverment) to provide a constant share of funding to day-to-day operations of transit in order to lessen the burden by the CIty. 

The issue that the CIty has been having is that the upper level government provide funding for Capital programs (such as bus purchases, infrastructure project for rapid transit projects). 

And it's not just the City of Ottawa that is asking for this, but other cities too. 

[GTAmissions1]

Ottawa to receive $543 million dollar funding deal which includes $80 million for the Kanata North Transitway extension via Teron and March Road.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ontario-announces-543-million-funding-deal-for-city-of-ottawa-including-taking-over-hwy-174-1.6825536

Final comments:

The corridor would be between Highway 417 to city limits according to the environmental assessment over a decade ago. I did talk to the engineer who was responsible back then around 2012/2013 (most likely retired today) regarding the environmental assessment. The response was "around the 2020s or 2030s depending on availability of funding."

The plan is to build median bus lanes similar to what is on Chapman Mills Road in Barrhaven between Longfields and Woodroffe.

[MCIBUS]

8 hours ago, tomsbuspage said:

It will be interesting to see how this affects transit in Ottawa:

CTV: Ontario to take over Hwy. 174 in Ottawa's east end

I can't really comment  on how this might effect 174, but I do see once the LRT opens up between Blair & Trim Road, I see the "former bus lanes" being add as a additional lane to 174. It's also possible that the province might use the lane closets to the LRT as a Express lane or what ever they call it cars with more then one passenger, and use the other two lanes as regular highway traffic. If you look at the 417/174 split to Trim you only add some many lanes on both sides do to houses being close to the highway(not sure how many?, maybe 2 or 3 including the bus lane?

 

It'll be interesting on how the city will spend the $543M. Expect more $$ for the city between now and 2025 from the Ford government as 2025 is election year for the province.

[GTAmissions1]

City of Gatineau is considering charging a $90/year license plate renewal fee to fund transit. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-mulls-90-licence-plate-renewal-fee-to-fund-transit-1.7159511

Final comments:

Quebec did grant additional powers to municipalities to generate additional revenues through alternative sources. Especially reading from this article, the fee would only be intended to cover lost revenue which if the fee was collected starting next year, it would generate $15 million dollars to offset losses. 

I know Montreal charges $59/year which goes into a fund to improve public transit. Which of course does add costs to those that require a vehicle for business purposes and can't always take public transit. 

Toronto did have the vehicle registration tax until it was eliminated which the fee was $60/year. There were attempts to bring it back, but for the purposes of supporting the TTC operations instead of general revenues for the City of Toronto, but that was rejected by city council of course. 

Regarding Gatineau additional fee on license plate renewal to fund transit, it goes up for debate/discussion next month before it goes to a vote in the future if it will proceed or be rejected. Especially with the cost of living today. 

[bsnider001]

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/1-in-critical-condition-after-crash-with-oc-transpo-bus-in-south-ottawa-1.6827994

[tomsbuspage]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:40 PM, bsnider001 said:

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/1-in-critical-condition-after-crash-with-oc-transpo-bus-in-south-ottawa-1.6827994

A sad update: Driver injured in crash with OC Transpo bus dies