Toronto Rocket Subway Cars

[Guest orionvi]

Honestly, how much of the operating cost of that train is operator labour? 1 train replaces 18 buses (or more), you think they could spare a little to have 2 crew on board the train.

Whatever the reason for this is, why hasn't this idea been raised at budget meetings. After all, it wouldn't result in cuts to service but would deliver big savings. Anyone know why?

[smallspy]

Yes, that's exactly the reason. I haven't heard anything about a fix for the problem with the external cab doors, other than a memo sent out not to use them. Bombardier change the latching mechanism after the first few trains came in, but even the newer style locks have problems. I don't get it, other systems have similar cab doors, and some other systems open those cab doors at every stop, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with them, only us.

Do the other systems have their doors interlocked though? I know that at least some don't, as the crews will open and close the doors while the train is in motion.

Dan

[Downsview 108]

Whatever the reason for this is, why hasn't this idea been raised at budget meetings. After all, it wouldn't result in cuts to service but would deliver big savings. Anyone know why?

The need em for safety too I should think. Otherwise, what's the point of the DWA?

[Volvo Super Olympian]

Yes, that's exactly the reason. I haven't heard anything about a fix for the problem with the external cab doors, other than a memo sent out not to use them. Bombardier changed the latching mechanism after the first few trains came in, but even the newer style locks have problems. I don't get it, other systems have similar cab doors, and some other systems open those cab doors at every stop, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with them, only us.

that same driver told me that the door on of the trains blew open while it was in motion. Gave one of his co-workers a big scare, but he was able to close it.

[eja2k]

The need em for safety too I should think. Otherwise, what's the point of the DWA?

I'm sure if the DWA's were the only consideration that they could be relocated to the lead car end at minimal cost, and in short order... but there are other factors at play

[Turtle]

Whatever the reason for this is, why hasn't this idea been raised at budget meetings. After all, it wouldn't result in cuts to service but would deliver big savings. Anyone know why?

That's the idea when ATO comes on line. The first year or so will be 2 crew operation, and after that it will move to single crew. The surplus operators will still be used, they need them to drive the extra trains required to fill the line up to vaughan and the extra trains for reduced headways.

I will be considering transferring out once single crew operation comes. I don't want to be the only person responsible for evacuating a crush loaded train in an emergency. Never mind that small issues like door problems are going to take twice as long now. Oh, and the fact that a medical emergency or any other passenger assistance alarm is a big issue for communication with control now, with a single operator. (hint: no radios in the middle of the train)

[Guest orionvi]

Also, related to the door issue, why didn't the TTC use a passenger-operated door instead? In Berlin that is used, even on the newest trains, and is much faster than what we have.

[D. DeLarge]

Also, related to the door issue, why didn't the TTC use a passenger-operated door instead? In Berlin that is used, even on the newest trains, and is much faster than what we have.

You're joking right? Going back to having passengers opening each set of doors themselves? Imagine all the people holding doors for others at busy stations, delaying trains.

The only door issue I see now with the TTC is the slow and sensitive TR doors. Surely something could be done (changing the programming, etc) about improving their closing time and sensitivity settings.

[Guest orionvi]

You're joking right? Going back to having passengers opening each set of doors themselves? Imagine all the people holding doors for others at busy stations, delaying trains.

The only door issue I see now with the TTC is the slow and sensitive TR doors. Surely something could be done (changing the programming, etc) about improving their closing time and sensitivity settings.

No I'm Not. That is what it is like in berlin and the doors close really quickly, no one holds the doors. All one has to do is press a button on the door.

[Wonka]

While that may work in Berlin I can't see that working anywhere in North America, hence why it doesn't exist here.

[C. Chau]

No I'm Not. That is what it is like in berlin and the doors close really quickly, no one holds the doors. All one has to do is press a button on the door.

Considering the common sense an average Torontonian has, that button's gonna be broken in no time if it were implemented.

**although this is being implemented on the LRV... I have yet to see how this will turn out. Probably disaster.

[Volvo Super Olympian]

No I'm Not. That is what it is like in berlin and the doors close really quickly, no one holds the doors. All one has to do is press a button on the door.

or the amount of abuse people will cause because they are bored and want to play with the door....

[cmc12]

Two middle sections of a train were being towed along Highway 7 eastbound near Yonge around 1:30PM.

[Kenster102.5]

If there was a button system, and someone was being violent and aggressive and holding the door open by the button, can a operator still shut and lock the doors on him/her while the button is being pressed?

[Guest orionvi]

If there was a button system, and someone was being violent and aggressive and holding the door open by the button, can a operator still shut and lock the doors on him/her while the button is being pressed?

Yes, the operator can override the passengers, that is how the doors are closed.

[tomsbuspage]

Also, related to the door issue, why didn't the TTC use a passenger-operated door instead? In Berlin that is used, even on the newest trains, and is much faster than what we have.

That is what it is like in berlin and the doors close really quickly, no one holds the doors. All one has to do is press a button on the door.

It is true that in many European cities, trains have passenger-operated doors. In Paris, the driver unlocks the doors when the Metro train pulls into a station, the passengers open them with buttons or switches, and then the driver closes the doors when s/he is ready to leave. I also noticed this on the TGV, the RER and the London Underground. The German-built O-Train in Ottawa also has passenger-operated doors, though these close themselves automatically after a short time. However, I did notice that newer Paris Metro cars have automatic doors, so the North American-style of subway doors may be crossing the Atlantic after all...

[squircle]

I was riding on 541x a couple of days ago, and noticed something odd as we were pulling in to St. George northbound. As we were braking into the station, the map started flashing and the AA started saying "Arriving at int-"... and then nothing. The map was completely blank, no AA. The doors then opened after we stopped, but no opening chime. Then, about 5 seconds after the doors had closed and we were heading off, the AA finished her message: "-erch ... St.... rge.... tn... doors" followed by a double door-opening chime.

Is this a common occurrence? Just a software glitch? It's interesting to think about what could've caused the system to completely freeze like that... maybe a memory leak or something, who knows.

*shrug*

[Turtle]

It is true that in many European cities, trains have passenger-operated doors. In Paris, the driver unlocks the doors when the Metro train pulls into a station, the passengers open them with buttons or switches, and then the driver closes the doors when s/he is ready to leave. I also noticed this on the TGV, the RER and the London Underground. The German-built O-Train in Ottawa also has passenger-operated doors, though these close themselves automatically after a short time. However, I did notice that newer Paris Metro cars have automatic doors, so the North American-style of subway doors may be crossing the Atlantic after all...

Do they have trouble with people lining up to use an already opened doorway, instead of opening one for themselves? You ever watch how people use doors at malls or other buildings?

[tomsbuspage]

Do they have trouble with people lining up to use an already opened doorway, instead of opening one for themselves? You ever watch how people use doors at malls or other buildings?

Not that I saw. Keep in mind that subway doors are spaced farther apart than shopping mall doors, so it makes little sense to walk 20 feet when there's a door right in front of you...

[MT0603]

Having actually been to London, I can say that they definitely don't use the manual door buttons at busy stations or stations around the core in London as I had never seen them being used. My understanding behind the concept is that it is only used at quiet stations and terminal stations for the sake of keeping the heat during winter (London doesn't have A/C, save for the S Stock) inside the car.

GO Trains also have the passenger operated buttons, which I've witnessed a few years ago being used at a terminal station 10 minutes before the train was supposed to leave, all doors were opened up closer to departure.

In New York City when trains arrive at terminal stations, all the doors are opened to allow everyone to get off quickly. Once everyone is off, all but one half of a doorway is closed (Only half a doorway at one end of the car per car is left open) until the train is ready for departure. If it's busy, the C/O will open all doors only right before departure, however if it's quiet they don't even bother opening all the doors right before departure. Once again, all this is done to keep the interior of the cars at a reasonable temperature when it's hot or cold out.

To be frank, it would be nice if the TTC did something similar to NYCT during cold spells and hot spells as it's not exactly fun waiting for the train to leave Kipling when it's freezing out.

[D. DeLarge]

GO Trains also have the passenger operated buttons, which I've witnessed a few years ago being used at a terminal station 10 minutes before the train was supposed to leave, all doors were opened up closer to departure.

Those are only on the outside, and typically used when the CSA puts the doors on "standby" in colder weather while laying over at stations.

[Volvo Super Olympian]

GO Trains also have the passenger operated buttons, which I've witnessed a few years ago being used at a terminal station 10 minutes before the train was supposed to leave, all doors were opened up closer to departure.

In New York City when trains arrive at terminal stations, all the doors are opened to allow everyone to get off quickly. Once everyone is off, all but one half of a doorway is closed (Only half a doorway at one end of the car per car is left open) until the train is ready for departure. If it's busy, the C/O will open all doors only right before departure, however if it's quiet they don't even bother opening all the doors right before departure. Once again, all this is done to keep the interior of the cars at a reasonable temperature when it's hot or cold out.

Those are only on the outside, and typically used when the CSA puts the doors on "standby" in colder weather while laying over at stations.

For the Richmond HIll line, the doors on the train are put on standby until the time for departure in the morning. And in the afternoon upon arrival, after all passengers have disembarked all doors are closed except for the south door on car #8 for the crew to get back on and head back to union.

[nfitz]

It would be 5536, as friends reported 5534 and 5535 arriving at Wilson Monday afternoon.

553x being tested on YUS today ... saw it roll north through King about 12:15 full of testing equipment and wires.

[38 Highland Creek]

I was riding on 541x a couple of days ago, and noticed something odd as we were pulling in to St. George northbound. As we were braking into the station, the map started flashing and the AA started saying "Arriving at int-"... and then nothing. The map was completely blank, no AA. The doors then opened after we stopped, but no opening chime. Then, about 5 seconds after the doors had closed and we were heading off, the AA finished her message: "-erch ... St.... rge.... tn... doors" followed by a double door-opening chime.

Is this a common occurrence? Just a software glitch? It's interesting to think about what could've caused the system to completely freeze like that... maybe a memory leak or something, who knows.

*shrug*

No, unless it's sometimes a software glitch. Might be a conflict with the AA sensors on the 2 Bloor-Danforth line because the diverging tracks lead to that line.

Edited March 1, 2012 by 38 Highland Creek

[Turtle]

No, unless it's sometimes a software glitch. Might be a conflict with the AA sensors on the 2 Bloor-Danforth line because the diverging tracks lead to that line.

There is a TR out there that was losing it's destination sign, maps, and station stop calls periodically, but that isn't what squircle saw, since that one sounds like it froze for a bit and came back on its own. There are a few out there where the a/c units keep on going offline. There is a couple trains out there having problems with the video recorders and passenger intercoms going offline once in a while. Add in the problems with the exterior cab doors, and a few that had water leaks in the cab area. Lets just hope these are just teething pains.

A good portion of the delays lately have been TR door related.