Toronto Rocket Subway Cars

[tomsbuspage]

I Don't want to sound stupid, but can any TA order the Rocket? Or is it Toronto Exclusive only?

I suppose anyone willing could purchase a few, obviously with some tweaks to suit their peticular needs. No two properties are alike. (car dimensions being the most obvious)

I guess a TA could piggy-back an order onto the TTC Rocket order, but one of the key differences would be track gauge. Toronto uses a unique 4' 10 7⁄8" gauge on its subways and streetcars, rather than the standard 4' 8 1/2" gauge used elsewhere. Even the standard gauge Scarborough RT cars cannot use the subway tracks in Toronto. Worst case, the TA could probably just swap the trucks after delivery.

[taylortbb]

The TRs are Bombardier Movias, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movia . Other transit agencies already have them. For something as expensive as a subway train there are some custumizations made for every customer, but if you look at the photos you can see there's significant similarities. Different agencies just get different seating/colours/etc. In the case of Toronto there's also the custom track gage.

[smallspy]

The TRs are Bombardier Movias, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movia . Other transit agencies already have them. For something as expensive as a subway train there are some custumizations made for every customer, but if you look at the photos you can see there's significant similarities. Different agencies just get different seating/colours/etc.

The Movia is simply a catch-all product name that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle itself. There are significant enough differences between some of the vehicles that have been built under the moniker as to render the vehicles completely different and incompatible with each other.

Dan

[taylortbb]

There are significant enough differences between some of the vehicles that have been built under the moniker as to render the vehicles completely different and incompatible with each other

I wasn't suggesting they're compatible in the sense they could be operated together, but Bombardier doesn't re-design from scratch for every customer. Much of the structure, the parts riders don't see, is either shared or very similar. All the Movia trains are built from the same base design, which is part of why they almost all have the inter-car connection. Obviously yes some customers get more customisations than others, but the point was that another agency "ordering a TR" I assumed meant something with the same base design, not something that was exactly identical.

[smallspy]

I wasn't suggesting they're compatible in the sense they could be operated together, but Bombardier doesn't re-design from scratch for every customer. Much of the structure, the parts riders don't see, is either shared or very similar. All the Movia trains are built from the same base design, which is part of why they almost all have the inter-car connection. Obviously yes some customers get more customisations than others, but the point was that another agency "ordering a TR" I assumed meant something with the same base design, not something that was exactly identical.

You're actually quite incorrect on a number of points. Structurally, the cars are different as is required by the specs for their contract. They vary in materials - steel, stainless and aluminum - and in the way that they are assembled. And because of the different vehicle envelopes and the different materials, yes, each different vehicle is a completely new design (with the obvious caveat of shared specs, such as many of the Chinese subway systems).

Dan

[38 Highland Creek]

Looks like someone needs a run thru the wash rack!

The TTC will do it when the train gets enrailed. You have to realize it has to go on a long trip from Thunder Bay to Toronto which are different latitudes, therefore a lot of salt gathers on these trains.

[eja2k]

The TTC will do it when the train gets enrailed. You have to realize it has to go on a long trip from Thunder Bay to Toronto which are different latitudes, therefore a lot of salt gathers on these trains.

Oh i do realize ... I'm originaly from Thunder Bay and have made the trip by car more than enough times... my statment was more of a joke than anything else.

[buschic]

Hi everyone, I just read through the thread concerning the "bungee cords" & difference of using cane between them & the H4, H5 & T1's, It was much easier with the old stock, with a solid "WHACK!" I could tell where I was in relation to the door, I liked the solid 'bumpers' the bungee cords are annoying! already several friends of mine have almost lost their canes in that space!

The space between platform & train varies from 2" to about 5" inch height (train was nearly empty, as I was measuring it with my laser measure at Downsview, as it was late at night at Eglinton, & St, George), the old cars were anywhere from 1-3 in height difference (depending on platform & load)..

feel free to ask any blindness related question you want! I'm happy to try to answer..

[Ramirez]

Hi everyone, I just read through the thread concerning the "bungee cords" & difference of using cane between them & the H4, H5 & T1's, It was much easier with the old stock, with a solid "WHACK!" I could tell where I was in relation to the door, I liked the solid 'bumpers' the bungee cords are annoying! already several friends of mine have almost lost their canes in that space!

The space between platform & train varies from 2" to about 5" inch height (train was nearly empty, as I was measuring it with my laser measure at Downsview, as it was late at night at Eglinton, & St, George), the old cars were anywhere from 1-3 in height difference (depending on platform & load)..

feel free to ask any blindness related question you want! I'm happy to try to answer..

So your saying that platforms are uneven with others?

[wil9402]

A thought crossed my mind today. That space on the TR between the cars (accordion joints) on the exterior "protected" by the red bungee cord-isn't that a danger to somebody with limited sight? With Hawkers and T1s, you have a fairly substantial metal bumper preventing people from falling between cars, but the TRs don't have anything solid there which would indicate to someone using a cane not to go that way.

Is that even a concern?

I was just thinking, if the bungee cords do pose a problem then the RT cars must be worse since they don't go as low to the ground as the bungee cords on the TRs or the metal bumpers on the older subway cars.

[buschic]

So your saying that platforms are uneven with others?

Yep, I am..

I was just thinking, if the bungee cords do pose a problem then the RT cars must be worse since they don't go as low to the ground as the bungee cords on the TRs or the metal bumpers on the older subway cars.

I actually almost fell between 2 RT cars when I first moved here, thankfully I was a LOT bigger then, so I didn't..

I'm way skinnier now, so i be even more careful..

[Ramirez]

Yep, I am..

I actually almost fell between 2 RT cars when I first moved here, thankfully I was a LOT bigger then, so I didn't..

I'm way skinnier now, so i be even more careful..

Maybe the TTC should measure the gap between cars and install some kind of barriers, we had an accident involving a blind person falling between Two LACMTA blue line cars in 2009, after that they installed these yellow sticks on all stations to tell people that area isn't safe, and it's working, my dad (who is blind) can tell you that it was a great idea, and no my family don't let him go alone when he takes the train, it's too risky

[Turtle]

Hi everyone, I just read through the thread concerning the "bungee cords" & difference of using cane between them & the H4, H5 & T1's, It was much easier with the old stock, with a solid "WHACK!" I could tell where I was in relation to the door, I liked the solid 'bumpers' the bungee cords are annoying! already several friends of mine have almost lost their canes in that space!

The bottom of the T1 bumpers line up with the threshold of the door, so basically at platform height if the train is loading at platform height. The H5s have the bumper mounted slightly higher. Both are approximately 6" horizontally away from the platform edge, depending on how the train body is leaning.

On the TR, the most solid spot on that space, other than the little rubber bumpers on the end of the cars, is the "accordion" joint, at about 1.5 feet away from the platform edge. The bungee cord is definitely not strong enough to stop somebody from falling. The bottom cord is raised quite a bit off the platform height. I'm surprised that they didn't design it so the accordion joint was almost flush with the side of the train, like they are on the London subways. Same manufacturer, right?

The space between platform & train varies from 2" to about 5" inch height (train was nearly empty, as I was measuring it with my laser measure at Downsview, as it was late at night at Eglinton, & St, George), the old cars were anywhere from 1-3 in height difference (depending on platform & load)..

feel free to ask any blindness related question you want! I'm happy to try to answer..

Thank you.

The end doors on the TR have a lower loading height than the centre ones, almost like the cars are bowed up in the middle. Noticed that with a TR moving off from a platform while I was stationary. At least that was the case with the one I was watching...it could have been from a dip in the track at that spot though.

[buschic]

Maybe the TTC should measure the gap between cars and install some kind of barriers, we had an accident involving a blind person falling between Two LACMTA blue line cars in 2009, after that they installed these yellow sticks on all stations to tell people that area isn't safe, and it's working, my dad (who is blind) can tell you that it was a great idea, and no my family don't let him go alone when he takes the train, it's too risky

hey did you know who was the one they talked to for ideas about that in L.A....

(Hint: the most famous blind person in music, who also happens to have owned Radio Free 102.3 KJLH since 1979)

I'm serious, as he doesn't use transit on his own, he couldn't help them that much, but offered up some interesting ideas...

Also ALL 4 intersections around the radio station had the first Audible Crossings in L.A...

The bottom of the T1 bumpers line up with the threshold of the door, so basically at platform height if the train is loading at platform height. The H5s have the bumper mounted slightly higher. Both are approximately 6" horizontally away from the platform edge, depending on how the train body is leaning.

On the TR, the most solid spot on that space, other than the little rubber bumpers on the end of the cars, is the "accordion" joint, at about 1.5 feet away from the platform edge. The bungee cord is definitely not strong enough to stop somebody from falling. The bottom cord is raised quite a bit off the platform height. I'm surprised that they didn't design it so the accordion joint was almost flush with the side of the train, like they are on the London subways. Same manufacturer, right?

Thank you.

The end doors on the TR have a lower loading height than the centre ones, almost like the cars are bowed up in the middle. Noticed that with a TR moving off from a platform while I was stationary. At least that was the case with the one I was watching...it could have been from a dip in the track at that spot though.

Yeah, I'll admit, the TR's drive me a little mental, luckily, I have enough sight to sense when the doors open & the insanely bright lights also help me get to the door too!

[Ramirez]

hey did you know who was the one they talked to for ideas about that in L.A....

(Hint: the most famous blind person in music, who also happens to have owned Radio Free 102.3 KJLH since 1979)

I'm serious, as he doesn't use transit on his own, he couldn't help them that much, but offered up some interesting ideas...

Also ALL 4 intersections around the radio station had the first Audible Crossings in L.A...

...Stevie Wonder, a great musician

A question: Since I haven't seen the back of a TR, does it have a cab in the back? Or does it have the same design as the front?

[DL1892]

A question: Since I haven't seen the back of a TR, does it have a cab in the back? Or does it have the same design as the front?

The rear is the same design as the front, with a cab at either end.

[D. DeLarge]

...Stevie Wonder, a great musician

A question: Since I haven't seen the back of a TR, does it have a cab in the back? Or does it have the same design as the front?

There are only 2 cabs, located at either end of the whole train.

[TTC12]

So, I've noticed a few kinks with the TR's that haven't really been mentioned.

The plexiglass(?) that cover the lever to open the Cab door in case of an emergency is already broken in a lot of the trains, also in some it has been completey removed, one could easily open the cab.

Also, I've noticed that in a lot of the TR's the "Please Stand Clear of Doors" announcement repeats 2-3 times everytime the doors close, is this because the operator presses the button more than once or because they keep their hands on the button?

[38 Highland Creek]

So, I've noticed a few kinks with the TR's that haven't really been mentioned.

The plexiglass(?) that cover the lever to open the Cab door in case of an emergency is already broken in a lot of the trains, also in some it has been completey removed, one could easily open the cab.

Also, I've noticed that in a lot of the TR's the "Please Stand Clear of Doors" announcement repeats 2-3 times everytime the doors close, is this because the operator presses the button more than once or because they keep their hands on the button?

Mostly when the operator presses the button multiple times.

[smallspy]

Also, I've noticed that in a lot of the TR's the "Please Stand Clear of Doors" announcement repeats 2-3 times everytime the doors close, is this because the operator presses the button more than once or because they keep their hands on the button?

It plays again if the train detects a door being blocked. That particular set of doors will then - automatically - cycle open and closed.

Dan

Edit: I was wrong. The announcement only plays upon the pressing of the Doors Close button. Multiple plays indicates multiple presses.

[pccstreetcar4549]

ive noticed that too on some sets (one of the more newer sets and the set used on the first day of TR service), thought it was a bad gltich of some sort.....

the one set did have an issue with the door closing at one stop

[Turtle]

It plays again if the train detects a door being blocked. That particular set of doors will then - automatically - cycle open and closed.

Dan

Edit: I was wrong. The announcement only plays upon the pressing of the Doors Close button. Multiple plays indicates multiple presses.

Yes, your edit is correct. Multiple plays in quick succession indicates an impatient operator pressing the button multiple times. The reason for pressing that button multiple times is a set (or multiple sets) of doors obstructed by something or someone.

I'm so tempted to go over the p/a when there is somebody holding the doors and say "hey dummy, why don't you do what the lady says and ...", quickly followed by another press of the door close button. I have a feeling that I might get in a little bit of trouble.

So, I've noticed a few kinks with the TR's that haven't really been mentioned.

The plexiglass(?) that cover the lever to open the Cab door in case of an emergency is already broken in a lot of the trains, also in some it has been completey removed, one could easily open the cab.

It is in an unfortunate location. People lean against that door all the time with their purses or knapsacks pressed up against that cover. I would have preferred that panel to be up at the top of the doorway like the ones on the passenger doors.

[busman]

And the doors close before the chimes are done ringing and the "please stand clear of doors" announcement plays. You'd think some of these basic issues they would of fixed by now

[Volvo Super Olympian]

And the doors close before the chimes are done ringing and the "please stand clear of doors" announcement plays. You'd think some of these basic issues they would of fixed by now

if i'm not mistaken the chimes + announcement is one button and and door closing is another button. so it's dependent on the operator who is the guard at the moment. I've had doors start closing on "E" of the chime before.

[spliffmansmith]

5536 (maybe got number wrong 5596 maybe) on a flatbed 930 am 4300 Jane street.