Air conditioning problems for the TTC vehicles (buses, subways)

[FlyerD901]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 2:37 PM, nfitz said:

Both cars in each pair? 

No. One car in a pair could still have working A/C. 5061/60 is an example.

When the T1s A/C works its great, it most be a PM thing than anything else.

2 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Ill pity you when the garage I spend an 8 hour shift in  gets a/c. Until then, suck it up.

 

changing off for customer service reasons? Sure. I get that. But when operators start the whole "I'm there for 8 hours" thing.....it's the smallest violin I've ever heard.

At least you get fresh air when all doors are open. If your driving a bus same thing, open a window.  In subways there's no fresh air.

For subways what TTC should do is mix both YUS and BD with T1s and TRs to spread out the problem. the idea was brought up  while back for that reasons and other reasons. There's ways to easily halt whole BD line to a stand still because of hot cars and make a statement.

For buses, if TTC know they will have a bunch of hot buses every summer, order buses that have windows where you can slide them, like the 1991 Orion V, GMs, etc, the air flow would be much better.

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

No. One car in a pair could still have working A/C. 5061/60 is an example.

When the T1s A/C works its great, it most be a PM thing than anything else.

At least you get fresh air when all doors are open. If your driving a bus same thing, open a window.  In subways there's no fresh air.

For subways what TTC should do is mix both YUS and BD with T1s and TRs to spread out the problem. the idea was brought up  while back for that reasons and other reasons. There's ways to easily halt whole BD line to a stand still because of hot cars and make a statement.

For buses, if TTC know they will have a bunch of hot buses every summer, order buses that have windows where you can slide them, like the 1991 Orion V, GMs, etc, the air flow would be much better.

The number of hot days this year have been really stressful to the AC unit. I guess TTC has other prioritizes like getting the working oppose to having no trains. Having some hot trains is better than having no trains and having everyone stuff onto the next one. Instead of blaming the TTC, we should also blame the council. Tory wants another budget cut and didn't approve the preventative maintenance plan for bus reliability. The T1's are getting old thus more problems occurs.

For buses, I really don't think TTC will go with those sliding windows. Too many people put their hands, arms and heads out. People do this on the streetcars every day. It's kinda dangerous at times.

[northwesterner]

18 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The number of hot days this year have been really stressful to the AC unit. I guess TTC has other prioritizes like getting the working oppose to having no trains. Having some hot trains is better than having no trains and having everyone stuff onto the next one. Instead of blaming the TTC, we should also blame the council. Tory wants another budget cut and didn't approve the preventative maintenance plan for bus reliability. The T1's are getting old thus more problems occurs.

For buses, I really don't think TTC will go with those sliding windows. Too many people put their hands, arms and heads out. People do this on the streetcars every day. It's kinda dangerous at times.

A/C failures / malfunctions are frequently extremely time consuming to troubleshoot and repair. These are not small systems, and fixing one problem can often lead to another one immediately popping up. Additionally, it can be difficult to repair these systems when the ambient temperature is cold.

[FlyerD901]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The number of hot days this year have been really stressful to the AC unit. I guess TTC has other prioritizes like getting the working oppose to having no trains. Having some hot trains is better than having no trains and having everyone stuff onto the next one. Instead of blaming the TTC, we should also blame the council. Tory wants another budget cut and didn't approve the preventative maintenance plan for bus reliability. The T1's are getting old thus more problems occurs.

For buses, I really don't think TTC will go with those sliding windows. Too many people put their hands, arms and heads out. People do this on the streetcars every day. It's kinda dangerous at times.

Budget cuts/freeze aren't new. That's just trying to please simple minded people. You have a budget cut or freeze, you save money, then complain of hot cars, look how easy that was to come around and bite you in the ass. There's a spending problem clearly and prioritizing on what to spend on. Why we have this discussion every year is beyond me. You can't implement something and expect it to work on everything and every city department.

That in itself is another thread and discussion altogether.

As for people sticking out limbs, that's their problem, if they hurt themselves we can use them as examples of what not to do. Its cold, but you can't prevent everything, shit happens move on.

 

 

[lip]

If anyone feels like taking credit, feel free:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-hot-subway-cars-air-conditioning-1.3655494

[Xtrazsteve]

7 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

Budget cuts/freeze aren't new. That's just trying to please simple minded people. You have a budget cut or freeze, you save money, then complain of hot cars, look how easy that was to come around and bite you in the ass. There's a spending problem clearly and prioritizing on what to spend on. Why we have this discussion every year is beyond me. You can't implement something and expect it to work on everything and every city department.

That in itself is another thread and discussion altogether.

As for people sticking out limbs, that's their problem, if they hurt themselves we can use them as examples of what not to do. Its cold, but you can't prevent everything, shit happens move on.

 

 

Tory is here to take credit for all the new initiatives but fails to actually provide the funds for them in the long run. 

Yeah, I don't care if someone sticks their head out and loose it. Stupidity can't be helped but the modern TTC has been doing things to prevent it. 

[raptorjays]

2 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Tory is here to take credit for all the new initiatives but fails to actually provide the funds for them in the long run. 

Yeah, I don't care if someone sticks their head out and loose it. Stupidity can't be helped but the modern TTC has been doing things to prevent it. 

I have to say free ride for kids who are 12 and under was the biggest mistake made by Tory.. It is so stupid that we have to pay more and kids can ride it for free..  

I haven't seen any countries or any cities which has free fare for those kids..

For example, only kids 5 year old and younger are free in Seoul, South Korea to take a bus or subway. Kids between 6 and 12 pay child fare (which is just half of adult fare)

In London England, children under 5 year old can travel for free. Those between 5-10 year old can travel for free IF THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY AN ADULT. 

I have to say changing that free ride policy may solve budget and deficit problem for a little bit.. That is so stupid..

 

[FlyerD901]

1 hour ago, lip said:

If anyone feels like taking credit, feel free:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-hot-subway-cars-air-conditioning-1.3655494

We can't have operators in hot cars for 8 hours, that was shocking. Now, if this was Byford, there would have been an apology to the customer. And I doubt BD will get new cars in 2025, it will be old TRs by that time on the BD line.  

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, lip said:

If anyone feels like taking credit, feel free:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-hot-subway-cars-air-conditioning-1.3655494

What did we learn today? Don't ride the middle cars on the T1's.

[raptorjays]

6 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

What did we learn today? Don't ride the middle cars on the T1's.

I always get on the second last car on the eastbound, and second car on the west..

I've already seen several cars in that spot without A/C this summer.

One of the operators is often at 2nd last car of the subway.

43 minutes ago, FlyerD901 said:

We can't have operators in hot cars for 8 hours, that was shocking. Now, if this was Byford, there would have been an apology to the customer. And I doubt BD will get new cars in 2025, it will be old TRs by that time on the BD line.  

We don't know what will happen in 2025.. but I'm not hoping old TR will move to BD line because it is BD line's turn to get a new train.

Ridership in line 2 will grow significantly if future Scarborough extension is completed

Apparently, I sent an e-mail to CTV NEWS TORONTO and CITY NEWS few days ago to cover this issue... I don't think it is shown on both channels..

Hopefully they can cover the story.

[Xtrazsteve]

29 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

We don't know what will happen in 2025.. but I'm not hoping old TR will move to BD line because it is BD line's turn to get a new train.

Ridership in line 2 will grow significantly if future Scarborough extension is completed

You know they been saying the the TR's will move to line 2. It has more room than the T1's so it will do for the increasing capacity. TR's and the TR replacement would have the same capacity if they are the same length.

The TR's have door issues that (Andy Byford claims) are still causing problem. It would be better for line 2 with less people being packed in them. The TR replacements would hopefully have less door malfunctions. If they TTC does decide to order longer trains, then the TR's are definitely going on line 2.

I don't expect the TR replacements to be significantly different. They'll probably be TR gen 2. Even if Siemens or another company wins the bid, the interiors would be quite similar unless TTC actually goes with perimeter seating. I don't know if you want them on line 2 if that was the case.

[nfitz]

7 hours ago, raptorjays said:

I have to say free ride for kids who are 12 and under was the biggest mistake made by Tory.. It is so stupid that we have to pay more and kids can ride it for free.

Previously it was a 60¢ ticket. I doubt fare evadement is typically higher for the final 60¢. This is a great policy, and encourages the young to ride - and certainly makes it a lot simpler.

 

7 hours ago, raptorjays said:

I haven't seen any countries or any cities which has free fare for those kids..

It's common in the UK.  11 and under are free in London.

 

7 hours ago, raptorjays said:

In London England, children under 5 year old can travel for free. Those between 5-10 year old can travel for free IF THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY AN ADULT. 

Or if they have an under 11 Presto card. We can implement the same here once roll-out is complete.  I have a Presto card for my 8-year old for example. ADULT. 

7 hours ago, raptorjays said:

I have to say changing that free ride policy may solve budget and deficit problem for a little bit.. That is so stupid.

How? Income from tickets for child tickets was only about $6 million a year. This is a rounding error on a $1.5 billion budget. And then there was the cost of having the distribution and printing of those tickets. 

[FlyerD901]

9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

You know they been saying the the TR's will move to line 2. It has more room than the T1's so it will do for the increasing capacity. TR's and the TR replacement would have the same capacity if they are the same length.

The TR's have door issues that (Andy Byford claims) are still causing problem. It would be better for line 2 with less people being packed in them. The TR replacements would hopefully have less door malfunctions. If they TTC does decide to order longer trains, then the TR's are definitely going on line 2.

I don't expect the TR replacements to be significantly different. They'll probably be TR gen 2. Even if Siemens or another company wins the bid, the interiors would be quite similar unless TTC actually goes with perimeter seating. I don't know if you want them on line 2 if that was the case.

The BD is a fast paste line compared to YUS. So having slow trains will hurt BD significantly, so much so that running times will have to be increased, and will cost TTC. If you understand the line you know the TRs will hurt BD. YUS line isn't has fast paste so you can somewhat get away with slow trains, but despite that people are still complaining. I thought by now I would have gotten use to TRs slowness but I haven't.   And depending TTC will have to wait for Kipling yard before ordering new trains anyways, because Greenwood can't accommodate a fix 6-car train. That's one of the reasons why BD doesn't have TRs. Mike Palmer mentioned that sometime ago. I don't think TTC should force the whole fix 6-car set. Most likely BBD will get the contract as long as BBD is around. There wil have to be design changes, TTC sees to many problems with the current TR trains, so I expect it to look different.

10 hours ago, raptorjays said:

I always get on the second last car on the eastbound, and second car on the west..

I've already seen several cars in that spot without A/C this summer.

One of the operators is often at 2nd last car of the subway.

We don't know what will happen in 2025.. but I'm not hoping old TR will move to BD line because it is BD line's turn to get a new train.

Ridership in line 2 will grow significantly if future Scarborough extension is completed

Apparently, I sent an e-mail to CTV NEWS TORONTO and CITY NEWS few days ago to cover this issue... I don't think it is shown on both channels..

Hopefully they can cover the story.

Its so much better when customers complain. People always think were being sarcastic when we encourage customers to complain about certain issues. but obviously they take you more seriously than operators. So hopefully your story gets through to the various news outlets.  And if that works, I'll make a list for other issues that customers can complain about. lol.

[H4 5600]

14 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

What did we learn today? Don't ride the middle cars on the T1's.

I always ride the front car and haven't had problems.

[dayone]

6 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

The BD is a fast paste line compared to YUS. So having slow trains will hurt BD significantly, so much so that running times will have to be increased, and will cost TTC. If you understand the line you know the TRs will hurt BD. YUS line isn't has fast paste so you can somewhat get away with slow trains, but despite that people are still complaining. I thought by now I would have gotten use to TRs slowness but I haven't.   And depending TTC will have to wait for Kipling yard before ordering new trains anyways, because Greenwood can't accommodate a fix 6-car train. That's one of the reasons why BD doesn't have TRs. Mike Palmer mentioned that sometime ago. I don't think TTC should force the whole fix 6-car set. Most likely BBD will get the contract as long as BBD is around. There wil have to be design changes, TTC sees to many problems with the current TR trains, so I expect it to look different.

I didn't know the TRs are slower than T1s. They shouldn't be called Toronto Rockets then, so misleading!

[H4 5600]

12 minutes ago, dayone said:

I didn't know the TRs are slower than T1s. They shouldn't be called Toronto Rockets then, so misleading!

The tr's are slow pieces of $hit. I remember when there was only a few tr's, the train frequency would be like this:

T1\H5

1-3 min gap

T1\H5

6 min gap

TR

A bunch of T1's and H5's bunched up behind the slow tr

 

Also  the tr's  unfortunately all seem to have SCS always turned on, where on T1's there is usually some without it.     SCS makes the trains slower.

[FlyerD901]

The brakes are trash too, so you have to apply them much earlier than a T1. Which over time you have to add running time to the whole line. Doors etc.

 

But on the positive side, it looks good, and has great features when it comes to security, PAA and disablements 

[leylandvictory2]

On 6/27/2016 at 0:03 PM, Bus_Medic said:

Ill pity you when the garage I spend an 8 hour shift in  gets a/c. Until then, suck it up.

 

changing off for customer service reasons? Sure. I get that. But when operators start the whole "I'm there for 8 hours" thing.....it's the smallest violin I've ever heard.

first of all I appreciate all the work the maintenance done.  

However, we get crap from customers.  On top of that without a/c it is like sitting inside an oven for 8 hours especially the sun penetrates through the windows.  I also happen to know a couple of operators who almost had a heat stroke or call in sick as a result of no a/c.  

[Xtrazsteve]

43 minutes ago, dayone said:

I didn't know the TRs are slower than T1s. They shouldn't be called Toronto Rockets then, so misleading!

You didn't know your trips are slower these days? It used to take 28 minutes to get from Dundas to Wilson with the T1's and H5's. It's closer to 33 mins now.

[Bessarion]

The t1's never seem to have this issue before, I mean the odd one would have no a/c once in a blue moon... Why is it this year so many of them have a/c problems? 

[raptorjays]

58 minutes ago, Bessarion said:

The t1's never seem to have this issue before, I mean the odd one would have no a/c once in a blue moon... Why is it this year so many of them have a/c problems?    

The problem actually started back in late summer last year.

Some A/C had to be overworked because there were still days with over 30 degrees in September.. As a result, many of them broke down..

It looks like the TTC weren't able to find the solution about the problem during non-summer season.. and looks like they did not fix many of them, so the problem is continuing into this year.. which is ridiculous

[northwesterner]

1 hour ago, raptorjays said:

Some A/C had to be overworked because there were still days with over 30 degrees in September.. As a result, many of them broke down..

It looks like the TTC weren't able to find the solution about the problem during non-summer season.. and looks like they did not fix many of them, so the problem is continuing into this year.. which is ridiculous

1) A/C doesn't break because its hot. 

2) Did you see my comment above about the difficulty of repairing A/C systems when the ambient temperature is low (for example, in winter time)?

[Xtrazsteve]

It seems more like the AC units are just too worked out and they need a complete refurbishment which would take the whole summer to fix.

[Xtrazsteve]

5052 was an oven in the 5th position of the train. The guard was opening doors on the last car.

Hint, if you see the guard not in their regular location, the AC might be broken in that car. For me, instead of whining and trying to survive the oven, I just ran to the next car at the next station. Problem solved!

[lip]

There have been a few drivers who are recognizing the A/C problems and they are keeping an eye out for people car hopping. Today for example, the train I was on stopped at Dufferin for about 10 mins since there was a "mechanical delay" at Bathurst. The driver through the PA said that we would be stopped for a while, but customers should feel free to car hop.

Let's not kid ourselves, the A/C problems can definitely lead to more delays (whether that be from Emergency Assistance Alarms, or door malfunctions)