The Compass Project

[nname]

The reader at SkyTrain station takes far less than a second. During beta testing, I had ran through the gate (without slowing down at the gate) quite a few time to catch the train and the machine still able to register my tap. Not sure if I can still do that when the gates are closed though. Right now the machine works just as fast on the bus - it is actually faster for a senior to tap their card than some other passenger trying to insert the paper ticket into the machine, let alone anyone who want to pay by cash. In fact, it seems even faster than the machine in Taipei - which takes close than a second to register (even worse when the driver tell you to tap twice upon exit for a 3-zones bus, where you have to wait 3-4 seconds to be able to tap again). As for the numbers of gates - I've seen many exits in Taipei and Hong Kong's system with only 3 or 4 gates and it still works well despite there's much much more passengers there. I just really don't get what's the problem is...

[translink]

Its new technology, its all a knee jerk reaction. As soon as it goes live, folks will get used to it. Just like having the gates.

[ilikebuses]

I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit many cities with smart cards, and most if not all of the systems I have been to, have more or less the same formula, for where to tap on and related things.

The main issue Translink should fix is their fare structure, is how the rider is charged while on the bus. On buses, you should only need to tap on, no need to tap off. For example, with the Octopus Card in Hong Kong, when you tap on the buses, the amount you are charged is the distance from the current stop, to the terminus. In London with the Oyster, you are charged a flat rate whenever you tap onto any bus.

For Compass to work more efficiently involves not only the technology they use, but also a redesign of the fare structure to go with the card, and not using the same fare structure for the Compass card, because I am guaranteed that everyone will forget to tap off sometime or another.

[northwesterner]

An excellent post from our intrepid Asia-correspondent.

I visited both London and Hong Kong in 2009. I was very impressed at how easily their smart card system operated. London's "daily cap" actually encourages ridership .... you don't need to worry about buying a daypass or what your zone fares are, you'll never spend more than that cap.

The integration in Hong Kong was just incredible. I could buy a latte at Starbucks or a Slurpee at 7-11 with the Oyster card. Who needs a bank?

In Seattle, our ORCA card is at least functional, though the website is abysmal. What I don't understand is why it seems like each system has to reinvent the wheel. There are only a handful of vendors out there ... is it excessive customization?

Someone else a few threads up commented that tapping the Compass on entry is faster than dipping a transfer into the Cubic farebox.

No kidding...

Possibly the single biggest mistake CMBC/TL made since their inception was the adoption of those Cubic fareboxes. While printing the transfer occurs fairly quickly, dipping the transfer to read the mag-stripe is painfully slow. A system that for years spec'd coaches with dual stream doors and had operators capable of watching flash passes and transfers go past as hoards boarded the coaches came to a grinding halt as passengers lined up to dip their transfers. Meanwhile, many other fare types are still flash-passes even though the purpose of the Cubic boxes was to record the fares collected (including transfers and passes). Why are they still flash-passes? Because the fareboxes are too slow.

I was in New Orleans a few weeks ago. They have GFI Odyssey fareboxes on all their buses (and streetcars). The Odyssey also has an integrated transfer printer which is at least as quick as on the Cubic. But there is one big difference... the Odyssey has the ability for transfers to be "dipped" as well as "swiped." I noticed everyone was dipping their transfers, so being a rebel, I started swiping mine to see if I would get a reaction from the operators. Most of them gave me the stink eye for swiping, because dipping transfers is standard there. This is the opposite of Dayton Ohio, where I first encountered the Odyssey fareboxes. The first time I tried to dip my transfer (well, thats what they do in Vancouver), an operator actually grabbed it from me and told me to swipe it because "it was faster that way."

If Cubic had designed a mag stripe swipe reader into those fareboxes, the passengers could at least keep moving as they swiped their transfers. Instead, each one has to pause while the transfer is dipped, which, when multiplied times the daily ridership, adds up to substantial delays. Compass can only help, even if you do have to tap out.

[MCW Metrobus]

The reader at SkyTrain station takes far less than a second. During beta testing, I had ran through the gate (without slowing down at the gate) quite a few time to catch the train and the machine still able to register my tap. Not sure if I can still do that when the gates are closed though. Right now the machine works just as fast on the bus - it is actually faster for a senior to tap their card than some other passenger trying to insert the paper ticket into the machine, let alone anyone who want to pay by cash. In fact, it seems even faster than the machine in Taipei - which takes close than a second to register (even worse when the driver tell you to tap twice upon exit for a 3-zones bus, where you have to wait 3-4 seconds to be able to tap again). As for the numbers of gates - I've seen many exits in Taipei and Hong Kong's system with only 3 or 4 gates and it still works well despite there's much much more passengers there. I just really don't get what's the problem is...

That's a fair point, on the bus, the amount of time it would take to register a Compass card tap is still faster than inserting a faresaver ticket, or transfer, or U-Pass, into the farebox. On Taipei's buses it sometimes takes a long time to offload passengers if everyone has to tap off, but you'd have the same effect if people had to insert their faresaver tickets in the farebox when they get off a Translink bus, so it's a moot point because the issue is not the method of payment, but the very requirement of having to pay your fare (by cash, ticket or smart card) before you get off the bus. I don't know what stations in Taipei you're referring to that only have three or four gates (maybe Brown Line? I hardly ever ride that line), but many of the busier transfer stations (the best possible comparison to Brighouse) have multiple entry points to the fare paid zone, with three or four fare gates in each direction. I used to commute regularly through Haishan Station on the Blue Line, which has only one bank of fare gates (maybe ten or so) and then three station exits. That isn't a very busy station outside of rush hour, nor is it a transfer point, and the biggest bottleneck is at the station exits rather than at the fare gates. At Brighouse Station, there has been a bottleneck with every inbound train arrival right from day one, and while the fare gates might only slow down passenger flow slightly if they work properly, if there are any issues, like I said before, that capital T stands for trouble.

I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit many cities with smart cards, and most if not all of the systems I have been to, have more or less the same formula, for where to tap on and related things.

The main issue Translink should fix is their fare structure, is how the rider is charged while on the bus. On buses, you should only need to tap on, no need to tap off. For example, with the Octopus Card in Hong Kong, when you tap on the buses, the amount you are charged is the distance from the current stop, to the terminus. In London with the Oyster, you are charged a flat rate whenever you tap onto any bus.

For Compass to work more efficiently involves not only the technology they use, but also a redesign of the fare structure to go with the card, and not using the same fare structure for the Compass card, because I am guaranteed that everyone will forget to tap off sometime or another.

The rollout of the Compass card project would have been a perfect opportunity for Translink to completely re-evaluate the zone fare structure. The geographic zone boundaries make perfect sense in an all-cash system as there is never any question or doubt about what the fare should be; if your trip crosses a zone boundary, you pay for two zones, and that allows you to know exactly how much the fare will be so you can have the right amount of cash. (Not that everybody has the correct fare ready though...) But the downside of this system is the lack of flexibility. A passenger might only want to travel a short distance - say from East Richmond to South Vancouver - and wind up having to pay a higher fare than someone travelling from Knight and Marine to the downtown core. A tap-on/tap-off smart card system opens up avenues for solutions to such fare discrepancies. One option is to do away with the existing zone boundaries altogether and calculate every fare individually stop-to-stop, similar to both HK and Singapore. (Singapore's system makes it a bit difficult to pay cash, as some of the fares are calculated at ridiculous amounts like $1.92 or $2.17 - the Singapore dollar is fairly close in value to the Canadian and American dollars, much more so than the HK dollar or the NT dollar, so the comparison is more valid than a comparison between a North American city and HK/Taipei.) Another option is to replace the zone boundaries with "buffer zones". Rather than being a "line in the sand", whereby if you cross the line, you pay a higher fare, a buffer zone might be a group of say, six to eight stops on a bus route, or two or three stations on the Skytrain. A buffer zone removes the optics of unfairness for those passengers only travelling a short distance across a zone boundary by softening the strictness of the boundary itself. Passengers who board the bus (or train) in one zone but get off in the buffer zone, pay only a one-zone fare. By the same logic, passengers who board in the buffer zone and then get off in the next zone, also pay a one-zone fare. Passengers who board and alight within the buffer zone pay a one-zone fare (there is no discount for travelling only within the buffer zone).

Take for example the route 49. A trip from Champlain Heights to Metrotown crosses the boundary between zone 1 and zone 2, therefore making it a 2-zone fare under the current system, despite it being such a short trip. If one were to convert that boundary into a buffer zone, let's say, from Tyne or Kerr Street to Willingdon, or even all the way to Metrotown Station, the fares would be more appropriate for the distance travelled. Let's assume for a minute, for simplicity's sake, that the buffer zone starts at 49th/Kerr and ends at Willingdon. Passengers travelling eastbound from the other major transfer points along the route 49, such as UBC, Granville, Knight or Victoria, still pay a two-zone fare if they are going all the way to Metrotown Station, likely to transfer to the Skytrain or another bus going somewhere in Burnaby, so their fares don't change. Passengers coming from Burnaby via Metrotown and then transferring to the westbound 49 still also still pay a two-zone fare if they get off anywhere beyond 49th and Kerr, so for them all that's happened is the point at which their fare becomes two-zone has been moved a few blocks. However, the aforementioned trip from Champlain Heights to Metrotown now becomes a one-zone fare, which makes more sense, and so therefore the issue is addressed.

The same scenario could be considered with a buffer zone stretching all the way to Metrotown Station. In that situation, passengers coming from west of Kerr would only pay a two-zone fare if they board the Skytrain or another bus at Metrotown after getting off the 49; in other words, passengers whose transit journey ends at Metrotown are only charged a one-zone fare. When I was thinking this out that was my first idea, however it does seem like a bit of an overcorrection considering what the initial problem was, because it would effectively make the entire trip from UBC to Metrotown a one-zone trip, which is a bit too lenient.

My point is that buffer zones can make the fare system a little more fair (no pun intended) and improve flexibility. It's not impossible to implement them in a cash-based fare system, but a smart card system makes it easier to calculate and enforce fares, as the Singapore example shows. Taipei's buffer zone system is easy to understand and use even while paying cash fares, but that's because the currency denominations are more favourable - $15 for one zone fare (about 50 cents in Canadian dollars) and $30 for two zones. There's also the fact that fare zones in Taipei are different from route to route, depending on the length of the route, so they aren't even technically geographical at all. The system could probably still be implemented geographically to make it simpler, it would just take some more thought and planning.

[translink]

They're eventually planning to phase out the zones. And eventually move to distance based. But that's not going to happen for a couple of years. To get people used to the gates.

[ilikebuses]

They're eventually planning to phase out the zones. And eventually move to distance based. But that's not going to happen for a couple of years. To get people used to the gates.

They should've had the zones phased out it along with the Compass rollout. Easier for everyone to do one big change than two smaller changes. The only reason why I would see Translink hasn't eliminated the zones yet is how cash riders would pay, since I doubt a passenger could tell the driver the exact stop that he/she is getting off at.

I wish they had more material (videos, posters, etc.) on how to use the Compass Card. Some demonstrations at the Night Market for example would be useful.

The integration in Hong Kong was just incredible. I could buy a latte at Starbucks or a Slurpee at 7-11 with the Oyster card. Who needs a bank?

In Seattle, our ORCA card is at least functional, though the website is abysmal. What I don't understand is why it seems like each system has to reinvent the wheel. There are only a handful of vendors out there ... is it excessive customization?

They say the only thing you need in Hong Kong is a place to stay, an Octopus Card, and a SIM card, then you're all set.

I find the ORCA card is simple, and functional. The Orca card is the only smartcard that i've used without any problems related to reading the card. I've had card reading issues with TAP, Octopus, Oyster, and Presto.

[nname]

That's a fair point, on the bus, the amount of time it would take to register a Compass card tap is still faster than inserting a faresaver ticket, or transfer, or U-Pass, into the farebox. On Taipei's buses it sometimes takes a long time to offload passengers if everyone has to tap off, but you'd have the same effect if people had to insert their faresaver tickets in the farebox when they get off a Translink bus, so it's a moot point because the issue is not the method of payment, but the very requirement of having to pay your fare (by cash, ticket or smart card) before you get off the bus. I don't know what stations in Taipei you're referring to that only have three or four gates (maybe Brown Line? I hardly ever ride that line), but many of the busier transfer stations (the best possible comparison to Brighouse) have multiple entry points to the fare paid zone, with three or four fare gates in each direction.

That's not a fair comparison though... Richmond-Brighouse, at 18.8k riders/day, would've ranked 67 out of 97 there. The Haishan station you mentioned have twice the ridership as Brighouse (37.7k), and the closest comparison here is probably Burrard. A good comparison to Brighouse is probably Zhuwei on the Red Line, or probably every station in Luzhou branch on the Orange Line.

As far as I know, the standard for the gates there is that, if there is only a single bank of gates, the minimum is 6 gates (3+2+1 reversible wide gate). If there are multiple bank, then the minimum for each bank is 4 gates (2+2, or 2+1+1 reversible wide gate). Only one accessible wide gate is required per station. The station exit I used often have only 4 gates. Although there's another bank of 6 gates on the other side, but its 100m away so its really not helping at all.

[Dane]

I agree that the one big change should have occurred with the introduction of compass. The existing and slightly modified administration of fares for this programme is going to be an expensive and arguably unneeded transition for people. With fare zones in place based on geography, and several fare media types not being future compatible I am left trying to figure out what Compass brings to the table.

[Blue Bus Fan]

Lets see eliminating zones will need to be approved by TransLink Commission, which can say "no." In which case TransLink cannot legally eliminate zones until the Commission approve it, which could take years.

[Dane]

That is incorrect. They could make it happen in a day if they wanted too. Realistically they could have easily done it in the multiple years this project has been going on. I don't think there is an appetite to change much right now as Compass itself is a figurative ship being kept afloat with duct tape, thus why I wrote retrospectively.

The direction Compass went was motivated by the uneducated desire for SkyTrain fare gates. Here we are years later paying for that intellectual minutia.

[Blue Bus Fan]

That is incorrect. They could make it happen in a day if they wanted too. Realistically they could have easily done it in the multiple years this project has been going on. I don't think there is an appetite to change much right now as Compass itself is a figurative ship being kept afloat with duct tape, thus why I wrote retrospectively.

The direction Compass went was motivated by the uneducated desire for SkyTrain fare gates. Here we are years later paying for that intellectual minutia.

How? The law states any fare change must be approved by the Mayors Council and which could include changing how people pay distance or zones, sorry I do not believe.

(1) Before enacting, replacing or amending a fare collection bylaw, the authority must provide the proposed bylaw or amendment to the mayors' council on regional transportation for approval.

Found here: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/98030_01#section245

So if that what the law states TransLink must follow it.

[Dane]

Right. My point was the evolution of this project is flawed. They could have made more changes. Chose not too. Now probably would not because of confounding variables. "In a day" was a bit of hyperbole, although it could conceivably occur really quickly - but that's just hypothetical banter.

[Ninja Bus Fan]

Any updates on the general public getting the compass card, yet ?

[Meraki]

Nope. They're still having problems with the bus card readers.

[Express691]

Saw one old asian woman today just tap with the edge of the card x.x

[ilikebuses]

At least they tapped.

Still finding a lot of lag in between two people tapping, still not fast enough, still takes forever to read the card. Long way from perfection.

[MCW Metrobus]

Don't worry, they'll figure it out probably around about the same time they build a bridge from Vancouver to Victoria.

By then, transit riders in Hong Kong, Taipei and Singapore will be using RFID chips implanted in their wrists to pay their fares, and riding double-articulated triple-decker superbuses that can levitate above traffic and travel at 160 km/h.

And the Toronto Maple Leafs will have won the Stanley Cup.

But not to worry, because Vancouver transit riders will finally be able to use smart cards to pay bus fares and tap through the fare gates on the Skytrain.

[Ninja Bus Fan]

A little update with the Compass Card System

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/glitch+force+changes+Compass+Card+transit+fare+system/10332972/story.html

[ConventionalMan]

And another little bit of info...

Starting in January 2015, students from 10 post-secondary institutions will be the next group of Translink customers to use the Compass card. The U-pass will be gone and the Compass Card phased in over three waves.

[Blue Bus Fan]

A little update with the Compass Card System

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/glitch+force+changes+Compass+Card+transit+fare+system/10332972/story.html

I kinda agree with TransLink taking the "tap out" on buses out because if passenger had to "tap out" I think don't that would speed routes and it make actually make some routes a little longer.

[captaintrolley]

I kinda agree with TransLink taking the "tap out" on buses out because if passenger had to "tap out" I think don't that would speed routes and it make actually make some routes a little longer.

How will not tapping out prevent one from being charged multiple zones ???

[Blue Bus Fan]

How will not tapping out prevent one from being charged multiple zones ???

I don't know; but hopefully they find a way.

[Blue Bus Fan]

I don't know; but hopefully they find a way.

TransLink is think throwing away the current fare system when the Campass card comes into play for everyone.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/translink-mulls-1-zone-fare-system-for-bus-riders-after-compass-glitch-1.2079278

I think to get the fare they should average the fares to get the new fare or make $3.50 with 30 minutes add to the transfer period or $4.00 with another 60 minutes to transfer to other transit services.

[Ninja Bus Fan]

It seems like we have to wait till 2016 for the compass card system to be up and running :/

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Expect+another+year+without+fully+working+fare+gates+Compass+cards+transit/10679177/story.html