TransLink Future - Dream's and Aspirations

[8010]

6 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

Well mine has both a "LTC", "ATC" and "NVTC"

Langley TC, Abbotsford TC, and North Van TC?

[buizelbus]

53 minutes ago, 8010 said:

Langley TC, Abbotsford TC, and North Van TC?

Yes.

[8010]

Delete

[8010]

Here is the map that I've been working on for about a month now: (link will not work on certain browsers)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

Some Notes:

• There are currently 214 bus routes on the map, including 17 B-Line routes and the 888 (aka 66) Fraser Valley Express

• Formatting is bad on most route information, I know, I have no intentions on fixing it as it is too tedious for me to do

• Transit Centre route lists are slowly being updated

• Majority of the routes I have going to Marine Drive Station are just temporary placeholders (which is why the routing was done so lazily), a bunch of these routes are being redone (2 reroute to Crown Street as there is more layover space, replacing service coverage along Hudson Street with a different route (possibly the 32), etc.)

• Langley and Maple Ridge shuttle routes will be added at a later date because TransLink is planning on redoing the shuttle networks in those areas

• Most route lengths are wrong

 

Currently Working On:

• Redoing the NightBus network, including route extensions and 12 new routes

• Central Fraser Valley routes

• Possible 258 and 480 removals due to majority of the routes being duplicated by B-Lines

• Rail from Surrey (or New West) to Chilliwack

• Connections to/from Whistler (rail and/or bus)

• Redesign the 254 and 256 to provide 2-way service in British Properties and Whitby Estates areas

[8010]

Delete

[ThatBusGuy]

A bit of an obscure change I would like to see implemented one day:

Out here where I live in Tsawwassen there is a park/beach called Centennial Beach that is a popular destination for tourists who find themselves out here in the summer beach season, along with locals who can enjoy it year-round (though of course it's usually too cold/rainy when it isn't summer...). It's located fairly close to the Boundary Bay community and as such is served by the C89 regularly and the 601 Boundary Bay during peak hours. However, access to the beach from these routes isn't great as both reasonable ways of getting there (6B Avenue, to the main beach parking lot and facilities, or Centennial Parkway in Boundary Bay itself) are fairly narrow roads without sidewalks, and both are located a fair distance away from the actual bus stops. Because of this, taking transit to the beach does not seem like a pleasant option for families with young children, or anyone with disabilities.

My proposal is: during the summer, introduce a variant of the C89 (or 619 in a few weeks) Boundary Bay / South Delta Exchange Via Centennial. Buses would make a quick detour up 6B Avenue directly to the beach's parking lot and facilities to pick up and drop off passengers. It wouldn't add much time to the schedule but would make it much more convenient for people looking to get to the beach by transit. It also wouldn't necessarily have to happen every trip, and certainly not year round, but I think it would be a good boost for tourism as well as general passenger safety.

[cleowin]

What are your predictions for the nova replacements at btc in the next few years? Btc hasnt received any new fourty footers since 2009.

im guessing XD40, but wont he suprised to see Nova Bae’s.

[Brando737]

17 hours ago, cleowin said:

What are your predictions for the nova replacements at btc in the next few years? Btc hasnt received any new fourty footers since 2009.

im guessing XD40, but wont he suprised to see Nova Bae’s.

As much as the company wants nothing but hybrid and CNG, BTC does need diesel's for North Van work.  What I think might happen is when future orders are placed either for replacement or expansion and they happen to be hybrid or CNG's the XD40's will be sent out to BTC with RTC getting the new buses or older buses from other depot's.

2019 will see some big expansion and I'm assuming more orders will be placed within 2019 for delivery late in the year or through 2020.  For all we know with the recent funding being unlocked they could be getting details ready for more orders right now.

[cleowin]

11 minutes ago, Brando737 said:

As much as the company wants nothing but hybrid and CNG, BTC does need diesel's for North Van work.  What I think might happen is when future orders are placed either for replacement or expansion and they happen to be hybrid or CNG's the XD40's will be sent out to BTC with RTC getting the new buses or older buses from other depot's.

2019 will see some big expansion and I'm assuming more orders will be placed within 2019 for delivery late in the year or through 2020.  For all we know with the recent funding being unlocked they could be getting details ready for more orders right now.

I suppose they could do XE40 Or Nova LFS-e for BTC, battery buses could probably handle the hills, no?

[8010]

Map Update:

• 213 routes currently on the map, with an additional 12 NightBus routes and at least 20 more CFV routes on the way

• added new peak-frequent section 

• renamed route destinations to match updated station/exchange names

• Marine Drive Station bus changes (may update the 32 a bit more)

• removed routes 258 and 480 

• added routes 1, 731, and N3 (route info for N3 will be added later)

• rerouted 418 to approximate Zylmans Way area

• renamed certain NightBus and B-Line routes

• removed WCE extension into Abbotsford

• rerouted 609 to travel to/from Centennial Beach

• probably going to extend the Coquitlam/Guildford B-Line to White Rock

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

[maege]

7 hours ago, 8010 said:

Map Update:

• 213 routes currently on the map, with an additional 12 NightBus routes and at least 20 more CFV routes on the way

• added new peak-frequent section 

• renamed route destinations to match updated station/exchange names

• Marine Drive Station bus changes (may update the 32 a bit more)

• removed routes 258 and 480 

• added routes 731 and N3 (route info for N3 will be added later)

• rerouted 418 to approximate Zylmans Way area

• renamed certain NightBus and B-Line routes

 • removed WCE extension into Abbotsford

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

Just a heads up that if there is not an Expo line reliever by 2050, much less 2060, the Expo line will be basically unusable between New Wesminster and Vancouver in peak hours. You should probably add something to address that. 

[cleowin]

1 hour ago, maege said:

Just a heads up that if there is not an Expo line reliever by 2050, much less 2060, the Expo line will be basically unusable between New Wesminster and Vancouver in peak hours. You should probably add something to address that. 

Kingsway B-Line?

[8010]

1 hour ago, cleowin said:

Kingsway B-Line?

I've considered a Downtown - New West via Kingsway and 6th Street B-Line as a reliever in the past, I suppose I could work out the route and put it on the map soon. I'm not sure if the route will travel along 6th Street or 12th Street yet, although 6th Street could relieve some passenger volume from the 106, routing the B-Line down 12th Street would be faster and have less travel times.

[buizelbus]

8 minutes ago, 8010 said:

I've considered a Downtown - New West via Kingsway and 6th Street B-Line as a reliever in the past, I suppose I could work out the route and put it on the map soon. I'm not sure if the route will travel along 6th Street or 12th Street yet, although 6th Street could relieve some passenger volume from the 106, routing the B-Line down 12th Street would be faster and have less travel times.

If you want any chance of ridership, put a full fat BRT there.

[8010]

3 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

If you want any chance of ridership, put a full fat BRT there.

I've kind of just envisioned the B-Line network as a BRT network by the time the 2040s-2050s hit and not just the frequent express service on busy roads that we all know today.

[maege]

11 hours ago, cleowin said:

Kingsway B-Line?

A B-line/2-lane BRT would not not have enough capacity to serve as a reliever for the Expo line. 

The two main options I identified previously are a regional rail from downtown Vancouver (Pacific Central or Waterfront) to Surrey/Langley (maybe beyond) via Braid, Scott Rd Stn, Newton, and Cloverdale along existing rail ROW. This would be significantly cheaper on a per km basis than any modern rail project as it would be almost completely at grade and follows existing ROW, and would likely make use of some of the existing SRY tracks SoF. The main catch for this option is that it requires the replacement of the Wesminster rail bridge with a new 4 track bridge/tunnel. This bridge has long been slated for expansion/replacement but no money or political will has come forward to make it happen yet. This could force the issue.
This option would serve to take significant expo line ridership from SoF and the Production Way branch, due to a faster travel time to Vancouver. 

The second option would be a Kingsway LRT from that could serve 5000+pphpd, running from Scott Rd stn (if there is a new rail bridge/tunnel) or New Westminster Stn to Vancouver. Scott Rd Stn would be better as it could draw significantly more SoF ridership. This would need high levels of priority at intersections and 60m+ long trainsets. This route would provide a viable alternative for those that would be closer to Kingsway than the Expo line and currently walk the longer distance or catch a bus to the Expo line. 

If anyone has other ideas/options that would be able to relieve Expo line capacity by at least 2000pphpd (that is capacity beyond existing ridership on bus routes that would be replaced and natural ridership growth from having better transit service), please add them to this discussion.

Edit: Ideally I would like to see both options built, it's not necessarily one or the other.

[Unloading Only]

It appears the plan is to eventually upgrade the Expo line to its "maximum" capacity of 25,700 pphpd, from the last improvement to 16,000 pphpd in 2010. Looks like we're already getting close to the 16,000 pphpd capacity during peak hours along some parts of the line. I suppose you mean that Expo will likely reach 25,700 pphpd by 2050?

 

https://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/plans_and_projects/rapid_transit_projects/expo line upgrade strategy/expo line upgrade strategy project summary.ashx

[8010]

59 minutes ago, Unloading Only said:

It appears the plan is to eventually upgrade the Expo line to its "maximum" capacity of 25,700 pphpd, from the last improvement to 16,000 pphpd in 2010. Looks like we're already getting close to the 16,000 pphpd capacity during peak hours along some parts of the line. I suppose you mean that Expo will likely reach 25,700 pphpd by 2050?

Is this including extending platform lengths for 6-car MK II & IIIs or not?

[Unloading Only]

32 minutes ago, 8010 said:

Is this including extending platform lengths for 6-car MK II & IIIs or not?

This is assuming 5-car MK II trains. It appears some platform extensions will be required, but only at some stations. The PDF I linked above has more details.

 

Quote

As part of the upgrades, the Strategy assessed future fleet alternatives (base case, all 4-car, and all 5-car) and recommends that the Expo Line be upgraded to operate all 5-car Mark II (MKII) trains. This will increase the capacity to 25,700 passengers per hour in the peak direction (pphpd) from 16,000 in 2010. Other upgrades to support a 5-car MKII fleet of 300 vehicles by 2031 include the following:

...

Lengthening existing platforms at Commercial-Broadway Station; and,

Extension of the platforms and reconstruction of the existing footbridge and circulation facilities at 29th Avenue Station.

...

 

Quote

The ultimate design capacity originally envisaged for the Expo Line was 19,400 pphpd using trains consisting of 6 MKI vehicles operating at 93 second headways. With more recent design innovations the system can now increase line capacity to 25,700 pphpd based on running a fleet with 5 MKII vehicles per train, operating at 93 second headways. To achieve this new capacity target, physical upgrades to stations, subsystems and the Operations and Maintenance facility would be needed.

 

Quote

The platform length currently provided at most Expo Line Stations is 80 metres. This length would enable operations of five vehicle MKII trains with four stations requiring modest platform extensions. Although six vehicle MKII trains were also considered initially, it is not possible to accommodate this train length without significant and costly reconstruction of all stations, which would be particularly costly for the underground stations.

 

[GORDOOM]

1 hour ago, Unloading Only said:

It appears the plan is to eventually upgrade the Expo line to its "maximum" capacity of 25,700 pphpd, from the last improvement to 16,000 pphpd in 2010. Looks like we're already getting close to the 16,000 pphpd capacity during peak hours along some parts of the line. I suppose you mean that Expo will likely reach 25,700 pphpd by 2050?

 

https://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/plans_and_projects/rapid_transit_projects/expo line upgrade strategy/expo line upgrade strategy project summary.ashx

Not the person you were asking, but I think we'll crack 25k pphpd on the Expo Line by 2030.

[maege]

16 hours ago, Unloading Only said:

It appears the plan is to eventually upgrade the Expo line to its "maximum" capacity of 25,700 pphpd, from the last improvement to 16,000 pphpd in 2010. Looks like we're already getting close to the 16,000 pphpd capacity during peak hours along some parts of the line. I suppose you mean that Expo will likely reach 25,700 pphpd by 2050?

  

https://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/plans_and_projects/rapid_transit_projects/expo line upgrade strategy/expo line upgrade strategy project summary.ashx

Actually, it will reach that by 2041 or before. In that document on page 20, it shows growth trends. Although I haven't seen peak specific numbers, the last few years Expo line ridership has been significantly higher than the 1.5% "High growth" estimate, so I would presume that we are trending around that 1.5% increase for peak, if not above that.

This is why there is a very high urgency to get a plan in place for a reliever.

15 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

Not the person you were asking, but I think we'll crack 25k pphpd on the Expo Line by 2030.

We would need to have 5-car Mark II/III trains to do that, but it may happen. I expect it will be before 2040, but I don't have a guess to more exact timing than that.

We need to at least be in construction on a reliever line when we do hit that maximum, otherwise everything will begin to suffer and we may start to see a reversal of transit ridership growth due to the over-crowding.

[cprted]

My understanding is the after the 2 current orders of MK3 trainsets are delivered, all new purchases with be in the 5-car configuration. But yes, planning for an additional east-west service needs to start before we hit peak capacity.

[cleowin]

30 minutes ago, cprted said:

My understanding is the after the 2 current orders of MK3 trainsets are delivered, all new purchases with be in the 5-car configuration. But yes, planning for an additional east-west service needs to start before we hit peak capacity.

Why not twin the expo line?

[tensorflow]

Speaking of 5 car config on Expo line, what's the length of platform for Millenium line (and of course Evergreen Extension)?

[translink]

1 hour ago, tensorflow said:

Speaking of 5 car config on Expo line, what's the length of platform for Millenium line (and of course Evergreen Extension)?

80m on all three.