Revised Weekend Service on TTC Subways

[busman]

Is there any way to get a hold of the map that it says is attached?

[Lord of the Files]

Is there any way to get a hold of the map that it says is attached?

I would like to see this attached map as well if it's available.

[6688]

Is there any way to get a hold of the map that it says is attached?

I would like to see this attached map as well if it's available.

Call TTC Customer Service (416-393-3030) and ask to have a copy of the report mailed to you. It should include the map.

[Lord of the Files]

Call TTC Customer Service (416-393-3030) and ask to have a copy of the report mailed to you. It should include the map.

I would never expect the TTC to mail a report to me, to be honest. lol

[Red Rocket 191]

I would never expect the TTC to mail a report to me, to be honest. lol

If that doesn't work, call the office of one of the TTC commissioners or one of the city. If you don't live in Toronto, pretend like you do. They'll bend over backwards if it could mean a potential vote in four years time.

[6688]

I would never expect the TTC to mail a report to me, to be honest. lol

I've had many reports mailed to me before. All you have to do is ask

[wil9402]

I found this on Transit Toronto:

(Update: Saturday, 2:03 p.m.): A clarification has been issued. Sources suggest that trains from Kennedy will deadhead between Museum and the Osgoode pocket track while trains from Kipling will deadhead between Museum and the St Andrew-Union pocket track. The use of both pocket tracks will give these trains more time to change ends and return to service.

Some consideration was given to operating these trains up the University-Yonge subway to Finch, but this was dropped due to signalling issues with the older models that operate on the Bloor-Danforth line, and because this would increase the number of operators required to provide the service.

This may change on the day, as required, and it may change between now and when operations begin, so stay tuned.

---------

I’ve received a correction to a number of inaccuracies from this post, thanks to readers in the know. First of all, commissioners won’t have to approve this arrangement, as it is a temporary service change. The report offered to the commissioners is to keep the commission informed of what is coming, and not a request for approval, as it would be for a permanent service alteration.

The operational arrangement of the diversion has been confirmed as that specified by the Saturday update. Trains from Kipling and Kennedy will head through the wye via the southbound University tracks to the southbound Museum platform. Trains will then go out of service and head south on University to turn back at either the Osgoode or St. Andrew-Union storage tracks, picking up passengers from the northbound platform of Museum station and proceeding through the wye back onto the Bloor-Danforth line and on to their destinations.

Either way, it should make for an interesting six weekends, and you can expect to see a few railfans come out to catch this rare glimpse of Lower Bay from the windows of revenue trains (even if the trains won’t stop at Lower Bay).

It looks like this "detour" will happen, the countdown is on now. I can't wait. I never knew the older trains on the BD line can't operate on the YUS line. Can someone tell me more about this.

[smallspy]

All trains can run just fine together. As has been said before however, the issue is that because of differing specifications and equipment (and their ratings), and wear and tear, different classes of car accelerate and decelerate at slightly differing rates.

Dan

[2VivaBlue91]

So the trains will go through LOWER BAY, but not stop there correct?

[DavidH]

So the trains will go through LOWER BAY, but not stop there correct?

Correct. Trains running on the Kennedy-Museum leg will pass through Lower Bay without stopping. Trains running on the Kipling-Museum leg will not.

Bay Station as a whole will be out of service on these weekends.

[Promagstyle]

I'm confused to routing of the trains on the weekend. Can someone please use paint to draw it out, so I can visualize along with other transit buffs. Thank you very much.

[busman]

Why don't u just use your head? lol

Don't mean to sound rude, but the directions and every little detail has been posted, and its not very hard to picture it.

Further proof that people don't like to think these days, and like to have it all spoon fed to them..

I'm confused to routing of the trains on the weekend. Can someone please use paint to draw it out, so I can visualize along with other transit buffs. Thank you very much.

[502 Downtowner]

Why don't u just use your head? lol

Don't mean to sound rude, but the directions and every little detail has been posted, and its not very hard to picture it.

Further proof that people don't like to think these days, and like to have it all spoon fed to them..

I think he's confused about the actual track details.

From Kipling, trains will move up to the YUS southbound platform at St. George in between Spadina and St. George (there is a track that connects BD and YUS). They will then go to Museum using standard YUS routing where they will offload. They will then deadhead to either the centre tracks after Osgoode or St. Andrew and reverse direction, deadheading back to Museum, where they will pick up passengers going westbound (I believe drivers will stay on a specific half of the BD all day, but I'm not sure about that). They will then go to St. George using normal routing and then follow the track down to BD Spadina and onwards to Kipling.

From Kennedy, trains will proceed normally until Bloor-Yonge, where they will then take the left-track which leads to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping and follow the track, which connects to the southbound YUS track just before Museum station (I don't think there are any crossovers in between Lower Bay and Museum). It will then offload and turn around the same way the trains from Kipling did, then from Northbound Museum take the right track that leads directly to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping, and continue on the track until connects with the eastbound BD track, which is just west of Bloor-Yonge station.

[busman]

Good job, you cant get more details then what you just said :-)

I think he's confused about the actually track details.

From Kipling, trains will move up to the YUS southbound platform at St. George in between Spadina and St. George (there is a track that connects BD and YUS). They will then go to Museum using standard YUS routing where they will offload. They will then deadhead to either the centre tracks after Osgoode or St. Andrew and reverse direction, deadheading back to Museum, where they will pick up passengers going westbound (I believe drivers will stay on a specific half of the BD all day, but I'm not sure about that). They will then go to St. George using normal routing and then follow the track down to BD Spadina and onwards to Kipling.

From Kennedy, trains will proceed normally until Bloor-Yonge, where they will then take the left-track which leads to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping and follow the track, which connects to the southbound YUS track just before Museum station (I don't think there are any crossovers in between Lower Bay and Museum). It will then offload and turn around the same way the trains from Kipling did, then from Northbound Museum take the right track that leads directly to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping, and continue on the track until connects with the eastbound BD track, which is just west of Bloor-Yonge station.

[Archer]

From Kennedy, trains will proceed normally until Bloor-Yonge, where they will then take the left-track which leads to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping and follow the track, which connects to the southbound YUS track just before Museum station (I don't think there are any crossovers in between Lower Bay and Museum). It will then offload and turn around the same way the trains from Kipling did, then from Northbound Museum take the right track that leads directly to Lower Bay, go through Lower Bay without stopping, and continue on the track until connects with the eastbound BD track, which is just west of Bloor-Yonge station.

No crossovers; they'll have to deadhead down to the pocket tracks as well.

[Orion VIII]

So, now that 6737 has cleared up my confusion, I will think about a few things.

I think they may turn off the lights in Lower Bay so passengers don't think they are missing a station.

Will the BD trains deadhead from Museum, down to the pocket track, then back up, or could they make use of them and provide local service? If they are deadheading, it will be cool to get videos of trains passing through without stopping.

Would it be possible to make the trains do the whole length (Kipling-Kennedy) so that passengers could stay on the train, just with a bit of delay?

[Promagstyle]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_(TTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TTCSubw...erlined1966.svg

[502 Downtowner]

So, now that 6737 has cleared up my confusion, I will think about a few things.

I think they may turn off the lights in Lower Bay so passengers don't think they are missing a station.

Will the BD trains deadhead from Museum, down to the pocket track, then back up, or could they make use of them and provide local service? If they are deadheading, it will be cool to get videos of trains passing through without stopping.

Would it be possible to make the trains do the whole length (Kipling-Kennedy) so that passengers could stay on the train, just with a bit of delay?

They won't provide local service because it would slow down the overall schedule and create longer headways for the rest of the system, besides it would be too confusing for customers.

Although drivers may run from Kipling to Kennedy (or maybe not, they may be segregated into their own side of the BD), it would be faster for a crosstown commuter to get off at Museum, walk across the platform and wait for the train going in the right direction, it will save them 1, possibly 2, trains worth of time (worth 6 minutes each).

When you think about it though people who are headed to downtown stops are not disavantaged. For example, anyone going from Kipling to Queen can simply get off at Museum and take the next YUS train south and loop around. You're really not losing that much time. Only people travelling from far-west to far-east or far-west to far-north-east (and vice-versa) are disavantaged.

[vivablue5215]

Now here's something interesting:

When BD trains go back north on University Avenue, would they stop at St. Andrew, Osgoode, St. Patrick, and/or Queen's Park? I mean, if some people there were to eventually transfer to the BD at Museum, can't they get on at their own stop instead?

The Bloor-Danforth drivers can at least make an announcement when they open the doors, saying, "This is the eastbound Bloor-Danforth Line to Kennedy Station, again, eastbound Bloor-Danforth Line to Kennedy Station. This is not the northbound University Subway Line to Downsview Station. Please wait for the next train if you are going northbound past Museum Station, thank you."

My thoughts of minimal inconvenience.

[wil9402]

Will the BD trains deadhead from Museum, down to the pocket track, then back up, or could they make use of them and provide local service? If they are deadheading, it will be cool to get videos of trains passing through without stopping.

Now here's something interesting:

When BD trains go back north on University Avenue, would they stop at St. Andrew, Osgoode, St. Patrick, and/or Queen's Park? I mean, if some people there were to eventually transfer to the BD at Museum, can't they get on at their own stop instead?

The answers for these questions are in my post in the quote from Transit Toronto. BD trains will go out of service at Museum and Trains going to Kennedy will deadhead to the Osgoode storage track are revese and come back to Museum and then head to Kennedy and the Kipling bound trains will go out of service and then deadhead to the storage track between St. Andrew's and Union and reverse and return to Museum and head to Kipling. The reason why they will use different tracks to reverse is so that delays won't occur on both BD and YUS lines since if they all use one spot to reverse then let's say a Kennedy bound BD train is using it and a Kipling bound BD train comes and waits inside Osgoode Station it will delay the YUS train behind it which can cause a chain reaction of delayed trains.

[vivablue5215]

The answers for these questions are in my post in the quote from Transit Toronto. BD trains will go out of service at Museum and Trains going to Kennedy will deadhead to the Osgoode storage track are revese and come back to Museum and then head to Kennedy and the Kipling bound trains will go out of service and then deadhead to the storage track between St. Andrew's and Union and reverse and return to Museum and head to Kipling. The reason why they will use different tracks to reverse is so that delays won't occur on both BD and YUS lines since if they all use one spot to reverse then let's say a Kennedy bound BD train is using it and a Kipling bound BD train comes and waits inside Osgoode Station it will delay the YUS train behind it which can cause a chain reaction of delayed trains.

That doesn't answer my question.

When Kipling Bound trains go back north from the St. Andrew-Union pocket track, wouldn't it be a great idead that they serve St. Andrew, Osgoode, St. Patrick, and Queens Park BEFORE they reach Museum? I mean, if they bypass all the stations, the subway might catch up to a YUS ahead and eventually be slowed down. Also, University people transferring at Bloor Street would have one less transfer than before.

Same goes with Kennedy Bound, start local service at Osgoode to Museum, and follow the wye track back to original routing.

But I also considered, to not mess up the BD and YUS subways on University, that when the subways open their doors, they announce whether it's a BD subway or a YUS subway.

My 2 cents.

[502 Downtowner]

That doesn't answer my question.

When Kipling Bound trains go back north from the St. Andrew-Union pocket track, wouldn't it be a great idead that they serve St. Andrew, Osgoode, St. Patrick, and Queens Park BEFORE they reach Museum? I mean, if they bypass all the stations, the subway might catch up to a YUS ahead and eventually be slowed down. Also, University people transferring at Bloor Street would have one less transfer than before.

Same goes with Kennedy Bound, start local service at Osgoode to Museum, and follow the wye track back to original routing.

But I also considered, to not mess up the BD and YUS subways on University, that when the subways open their doors, they announce whether it's a BD subway or a YUS subway.

My 2 cents.

He has answered it, trains from BD will be deadheading both ways. The reason trains won't stop is because it will cause scheduling issues, be far too confusing for riders, the BD technology isn't designed for the YUS signals and because let's face it, the University Line is very underused on weekends (heck it used to be closed on Sundays back in the 60's!) anyway.

[smallspy]

The main reason why the trains will not be servicing the stations south of Museum is likely because the TTC doesn't want to have to staff those stations as well as St. George and Museum...as it stands, there will be a lot of staff on the platforms of both of those stations to help passengers figure out which train will take them there.

On top of that, because the trains will be using two different pocket tracks, service levels would be uneven between the stations.

There would be no scheduling issues to speak of....deadheading trains can only go as fast as the train ahead of them anyways.

And for the record, yes, crews will be travelling from Kennedy to Kipling.

the BD train technology isn't designed for the YUS signals

What are you talking about? There is no reason at all why an H4 or H6 trainset couldn't run on YUS (again), or H5 on B-D. At all.

Dan

[2VivaBlue91]

I think we actually need a diagram. I can't picture this, probably because I do not ride the subway all that often, and then I do its mostly stops along yonge, occaisionally a few stops east or west of bloor on the BD line.

[York Transit]

Did I get it right?