STM route renumbering

[SMS]

The future route 178 (currently the route 480) will benefit from a significant service increase. No more one way deadheads results in productive runs, much to the chagrin of the drivers I imagine.

http://stm.info/info/ajout480.htm

[SMS]

This page:

http://stm.info/info/familleservices.htm

http://stm.info/English/info/a-familleservices.htm

[JeremyA]

Noticed some of the 535 signs near Concordia have been changed to show 435 with a small 535 with an X through it in the top corner. Will try to get pics next time I'm around.

[SMS]

Anyone planning a final run on their favourite route before the renumbering?

[boo2277]

Anyone planning a final run on their favourite route before the renumbering?

I ride my favorite route (268) every weekday so i doubt i'll have to plan for a final run. The run out of Cote-Vertu at 11:05 today was done by 15-114 so i was happy to get a classic.

[JeremyA]

You might want to drop by Berri-UQAM and pick up some schedules...the ones right now all say things like "La 535 deviendra la 435" on the front, so they make a nice souvenir of this event!

Here is one of the signs that has already been changed (in front of Gare Lucien-L'Allier):

[Bus_Medic]

You might want to drop by Berri-UQAM and pick up some schedules...the ones right now all say things like "La 535 deviendra la 435" on the front, so they make a nice souvenir of this event!

Here is one of the signs that has already been changed (in front of Gare Lucien-L'Allier):

Who the hell is supposed to read that!?

[webfil]

What I do not understand is why routes such as 410, 430, 435 and 460 do not change numbers, as they do not follow route 10/110, 30, 135 nor 160, thus do not fit the new scheme.

I the STM should eventually adopt these numbers :

410 -> 489 Express Notre-Dame

430 -> 486 Express Sherbrooke

435 -> 465 or 480 (too short time before reusing the number can cause some confusion) Express Parc/Côte-des-Neiges

460 -> 400, 402, 492 or even 493 Express Métropolitaine.

What do you think?

[joseph99929]

What I do not understand is why routes such as 410, 430, 435 and 460 do not change numbers, as they do not follow route 10/110, 30, 135 nor 160, thus do not fit the new scheme.

I the STM should eventually adopt these numbers :

410 -> 489 Express Notre-Dame

430 -> 486 Express Sherbrooke

435 -> 465 or 480 (too short time before reusing the number can cause some confusion) Express Parc/Côte-des-Neiges

460 -> 400, 402, 492 or even 493 Express Métropolitaine.

What do you think?

Ya, but the new scheme is a joke.

I mean for some lines it makes sense where the bus is actually pretty much an express version of an existing route:

For instance 139 and 505, 211 and 221, 182 and 186, 32 and 199, and so on..

But for many express buses including the four you mentioned, there is no such equivalent route:

For instance, 44 and 77, 209 and 214, 210 and 219.

This is why I think this plan is bad.

Also, there really is not clear-cut line that separates "express" and "local" routes. Some "locals" do have a limited-stop section like the 48, 49, 168, 211, etc... Others do not have a limited-stop section but are really fast because they run on highway service roads like the 100.

[SMS]

From the beginning I hated the designation 470. 440 or 416 would have been better!

[JeremyA]

Their primary objective with the renumbering seems to be to make sure all routes are grouped by hundreds. So, all 4xx routes will be express. Within that, they've paired the express routes with the regular equivalent in some cases, but it doesn't seem to be a priority.

[SMS]

If the 80 and 165 already run during the peak, the new 435 had better be limited stop to earn its express designation - in comparison to the slow local 535.

Let's wait until the planibus are printed for the January 2012 schedules to see if they're really talking turkey with the new express designations. The 120 for example hardly has an express segment. Let's see if this is marketing wizardry at work or if there is meaning to this window dressing.

[novalfs26001]

I also don't think the new 409 (old 214) qualifies as an express either - it doesn't skip 1 stop! It is at best a "variation" of the 209 (like Toronto has several variations of the same line ABCD... but have a common segment of their routes)

[SMS]

I always thought that the original 72 Alfred-Nobel which ran on the service road should have been the local bus, allowing the 214 and 216 to run limited stop if not express. A smart idea would be to keep the 216 as the local Transcanadienne service road bus, leaving the rebadged 214 to truly become an express - but maybe this would be too much to hope for.

[JeremyA]

The 120 is about the furthest from "express" I've ever seen

[webfil]

The 120 is about the furthest from "express" I've ever seen

Well, even though its route is winding, making it stop at one out of two or three stops on its way does make 120 apply for the status of express. Plus, its concurrent 195 makes it to LaSalle 15 minutes later than 120.

[Chris_the_traveller]

Have you ever even tried the two?

According to the schedules, the 120 takes 34 minutes from 10th and Saint-Antoine to get to Angrignon.

In comparison, the 195 takes 24 minutes from 10th and Victoria to get to Angrignon.

So the 195 (which is hardly the "concurrent" route) is theoretically much faster.

[Matt Demers]

I am not for renumbering. Some of the number changes such as 214 to 409 and 77 to 444, ridiculous! And 132 to 136, seriously? Just upping by 4 digits is worth spending money on (not!), like it's going to make a BIG difference...

[JeremyA]

I am not for renumbering. Some of the number changes such as 214 to 409 and 77 to 444, ridiculous! And 132 to 136, seriously? Just upping by 4 digits is worth spending money on (not!), like it's going to make a BIG difference...

I like changing the 167 to 767/777 depending on season...it will be kind of interesting for tourists to see, falling in line with the 747.

Other than that, most of the changes seem a tad unnecessary...people either don't pay attention to route numbers or already know their routes and will just get confused by the changes...I get the sense that someone in the STM planning department has OCD.

The other thing I find a bit odd is how all the trainbus, metrobus and R-bus will becomes simply "express." I can sort of understand with R-bus since many people might not realize that R-bus means reserved lane anyway. However, metrobus and especially trainbus convey specific meaning about the route...they aren't necessarily express, but they are scheduled to coincide with a train.

[webfil]

I like changing the 167 to 767/777 depending on season...it will be kind of interesting for tourists to see, falling in line with the 747.

I think the destination has been more definitive than the season to change the number. 167 has two different routes : The metro/Casino shuttle and the Île Notre-Dame/Île Saint-Hélène circuit, from the Beach to La Ronde via metro. But I agree, a 700-serie for touristic routes is indeed a good idea.

Other than that, most of the changes seem a tad unnecessary...people either don't pay attention to route numbers or already know their routes and will just get confused by the changes...I get the sense that someone in the STM planning department has OCD.

You really think it's about mental disorder?..

How about having some free numbers for a network expansion? How about having a consistent, easy-to-use/easy-to-understand network, instead of patching holes when introducing a new line?

Sure, the first few weeks will be confusing for used customers. But cleaning up the numbering that took place in the early XXth century is worth it.

Québec City experience was cited as an example of success in the presentation of the project ; RTC has 54 eXpress/limited stops routes (numbered 100-399 and 800-804, 54 is more than twice of what STM currently operates in M-Bus/R-Bus/E-bus/T-bus routes), but still has plenty of free numbers in the 1-99 regular routes number bank. Renumberings took place twice in the CTCUQ/STCUQ/RTC history (1970, 1992) and no one got killed, injured nor developped schizophrenia. RTC even had some 400's-numbered express for Jeux Mondiaux des Policiers et Pompiers (2005), 500's-numbered express for linking shopping centres (prior to IKEA closure?) and 600's-numbered express (Express Nordiques) in the late 80's/early 90's on game nights.

The other thing I find a bit odd is how all the trainbus, metrobus and R-bus will becomes simply "express."

I totally agree. I would have liked to see

• 400's numbered for suburban express service (E-bus), with no-stops sections : Keep 410/489, 420/405, 430/486, 470, even 480/412, 421 or 468. Add 77 (444), 143 (440), 148 (448), 159 (469), 173 (496), 182 (486), 184 (487), 190 (491), 194 (449 rush hour service), 199 (432 rush hour service) and 221 (411).
• 500's numbered for urban rapid transit service (R-bus), with limited stops and/or operation on a reserved lane : Keep 505, 506, 535. Add 120 (495/595), 460/500,502, 592 or 593, 467/567, 194 (449/549 daytime service) and 199 (432/532 daytime service).
• 600's numbered for Trainbus services (-bus). Keep 261 (601), 265 (607), 268 (668). That also leaves place for potential Train de l'Est trainbus routes.
• 700's numbered for touristic services (?-bus). Keep 747, 515 (715), 167 (767/777) and 169 (769).
• 800's numbered for temporary emergency metro routing (M-bus). 801, 802, 804 and 805.

[tomsbuspage]

Other than that, most of the changes seem a tad unnecessary...people either don't pay attention to route numbers or already know their routes and will just get confused by the changes...

How about having some free numbers for a network expansion? How about having a consistent, easy-to-use/easy-to-understand network, instead of patching holes when introducing a new line?

Sure, the first few weeks will be confusing for used customers. But cleaning up the numbering that took place in the early XXth century is worth it.

Québec City experience was cited as an example of success in the presentation of the project...

Likewise, OC Transpo underwent a system-wide route renumbering in the mid-1980s to clean up their numbering scheme inherited from the OTC. The old scheme made sense in 1970 but by 1984 it had become chaotic and needed a total revamp.

[LachineMetro]

Does anyone know if the STM is starting to use these new route numbers on its busses to familiarize riders with these changes? I just saw a bus with 495 on its rear LED route indicator working the 120 WB at 32 Avenue in Lachine @ 9:50AM. I only saw this bus for ~ 5 seconds so I don't know if this bus was programmed to alternate its route display between the old and new route numbers.

[AlexLy]

Does anyone know if the STM is starting to use these new route numbers on its busses to familiarize riders with these changes? I just saw a bus with 495 on its rear LED route indicator working the 120 WB at 32 Avenue in Lachine @ 9:50AM. I only saw this bus for ~ 5 seconds so I don't know if this bus was programmed to alternate its route display between the old and new route numbers.

There's already a bunch of buses that display the new routes since a week ago.

[Chris_the_traveller]

I've also been noticing "En Transit" instead of Hors-Service on a bunch of random 31s since December 22. And the route numbers in the rear window are thinner.

[novalfs26001]

The destination sign program has been updated and is being downloaded into the buses (almost all SL buses are updated). This version contains the new routes as well as the old ones. "En Transit" has also been added along with several new p/r messages (bonne journee, bonne soiree etc..) Drivers are still supposed to use existing route numbers til Jan 8. No directive was given (at least not yet) to use new route numbers