Hamilton Street Railway

[JN HSR]

I have a question about the new AA system being installed on HSR buses. Will the system be dependent on the route destination sign being set? Meaning that the system will know what stop to display and call out based on the route displayed in a particular bus?

The reason I ask is that I find that very often, on the Barton route at least, the drivers tend to have the incorrect route display listed. It is not uncommon to have a bus bound for Hamilton GO Centre display 'to Bell Manor Loop' instead of the correct 'to Downtown GO Centre.' I think that some drivers just leave the sign the same for the entire route. Would the Automatic Announcement system need to have that route displayed correctly to work? It would seem odd if the system were calling out the stop behind for the entire run.

I keep checking 6/7/8 buses to see if the system is up and running. Nothing yet.

[Hybrid0920]

Wow I remember when the eastbound used to stop at 6 and the last westbound was at 7. They must have extended the service since then..

[Mishap]

Wow I remember when the eastbound used to stop at 6 and the last westbound was at 7. They must have extended the service since then..

I think it was Fall 2007 was when they added mid-day service, and the extra later service. The problem is, it's not late enough. The big rush seems to die around 5:30pm, as people make their way home for supper. The six-o'clock hour is a pretty light time to travel by bus. It isn't until 7:00 or later that people start heading out again, especially on Thursday and Friday. Unfortunately, the last crosstown B-Line trips are 7:00 from Eastgate and 7:09 from University Plaza. And by 8:00. the King and west-end Delaware buses are getting hit again.

[BusMaxx]

I think it was Fall 2007 was when they added mid-day service, and the extra later service. The problem is, it's not late enough. The big rush seems to die around 5:30pm, as people make their way home for supper. The six-o'clock hour is a pretty light time to travel by bus. It isn't until 7:00 or later that people start heading out again, especially on Thursday and Friday. Unfortunately, the last crosstown B-Line trips are 7:00 from Eastgate and 7:09 from University Plaza. And by 8:00. the King and west-end Delaware buses are getting hit again.

I have seen, before and after the changes mentioned abouve, King buses leaving Eastgate at or near packed. And as for the west end Delaware buses...... IIRC, one evening, around 10 or 11, riding a westbound 52 near packed, see an eastbound 5A go into the university crush-loaded

[Hamilton]

Found this on The McMaster Silhouette Facebook page:

We're surprised by how busy city buses are this year. Have you been left behind by overcapacity buses? If so, drop a comment below and let us know the details.

[JN HSR]

I have seen, before and after the changes mentioned abouve, King buses leaving Eastgate at or near packed. And as for the west end Delaware buses...... IIRC, one evening, around 10 or 11, riding a westbound 52 near packed, see an eastbound 5A go into the university crush-loaded

If that's the case, especially when the malls close (shoppers leaving and store staff going home for the day) how simple would it be to schedule the 1 King runs just before and after those times to utilize the new DE60LFR Artics? Same goes for 25 Upper Wentworth from LimeRidge or 41 Mohawk? Since the BLine goes out of service around 8pm they could go to the terminals to replace a 40ft buses on the run, which would then go out of service. That could help with the stress at that time. Thoughts?

[hamiltonde60lf]

I have seen, before and after the changes mentioned abouve, King buses leaving Eastgate at or near packed. And as for the west end Delaware buses...... IIRC, one evening, around 10 or 11, riding a westbound 52 near packed, see an eastbound 5A go into the university crush-loaded

The joys of low-floor buses and less seating.....heheeheh........but maybe increased ridership too?

[Wonka]

I have a question about the new AA system being installed on HSR buses. Will the system be dependent on the route destination sign being set? Meaning that the system will know what stop to display and call out based on the route displayed in a particular bus?

The reason I ask is that I find that very often, on the Barton route at least, the drivers tend to have the incorrect route display listed. It is not uncommon to have a bus bound for Hamilton GO Centre display 'to Bell Manor Loop' instead of the correct 'to Downtown GO Centre.' I think that some drivers just leave the sign the same for the entire route. Would the Automatic Announcement system need to have that route displayed correctly to work? It would seem odd if the system were calling out the stop behind for the entire run.

I keep checking 6/7/8 buses to see if the system is up and running. Nothing yet.

I think that since the AA system is tied into onboard GPS, the AA will just know what to display by "locating" itself and figuring out which direction the bus is traveling independent of what the destination sign says.

To tie in with the B-Line discussion, I think one of the most important future service improvements that the HSR should look into is either extending the B-Line's service hours to all-day weekday service or even a 24/hour pilot program. It's plainly obvious that in it's current scheduling, it stops service much too early and the regular King scheduling often can't pick up the slack.

[Hybrid0920]

The king is only crushloaded because it has every 30 min service after 8 I believe and that's nit enough for a long busy route like that. So either leave more buses on king, or extend the B Line to maybe 10PM where all mall employees would already have arrived home by then.

[Seashore_518203]

The king is only crushloaded because it has every 30 min service after 8 I believe and that's nit enough for a long busy route like that. So either leave more buses on king, or extend the B Line to maybe 10PM where all mall employees would already have arrived home by then.

The King route has 10 minute service until 9:00 PM, 15 between 9 and 10 PM and every 30 minutes after that. While it would be nice to have more service on every route, the King route does have pretty good service.

Kevin

[JN HSR]

I think that since the AA system is tied into onboard GPS, the AA will just know what to display by "locating" itself and figuring out which direction the bus is traveling independent of what the destination sign says.

How would that work? In the downtown core a dozen or more routes share the same routing. Especially when you consider that the Delaware has three branches that share common routing in both directions. It must be tied into the route display somehow.

[Wonka]

I honestly didn't think about scenarios like that.

[Guest HAMILTON BUS]

They should just extend the B-Line route like everybody else has said....

[Guest HAMILTON BUS]

I just had a question to ask... I thought of it when i was staring at a Fare box this morning... how much money can a farebox hold?? aswell how much tickets can a fare box hold?

[Wonka]

I think that at least the first part of your question is gonna be classified information. The tickets are incredibly thin so I would assume it can hold several hundred, especially if it is able to stack them inside the box neatly.

[Mishap]

How would that work? In the downtown core a dozen or more routes share the same routing. Especially when you consider that the Delaware has three branches that share common routing in both directions. It must be tied into the route display somehow.

I don't think the overhead display will have anything to do with it. I think the driver would likely have to tell the new onboard computer system what route and key it is. The computer would work from the schedule for that specific bus. If that bus does a trip as a 5, then 5B, 5, 52 (Governors), 5E, 52 (Head St), the computer already knows all that.

Now, for missed turns, detours, changes due to delays, etc., I couldn't say how that would work.

[The Crazy Hybrid]

why do drivers say Overhead down i think its a Code 2?

[BusMaxx]

I don't think the overhead display will have anything to do with it. I think the driver would likely have to tell the new onboard computer system what route and key it is. The computer would work from the schedule for that specific bus. If that bus does a trip as a 5, then 5B, 5, 52 (Governors), 5E, 52 (Head St), the computer already knows all that.

Now, for missed turns, detours, changes due to delays, etc., I couldn't say how that would work.

I may have mentioned this before, but a night earlier this year, I was going to my dad's on TTC 54 Lawrence East. The route is to turn north at Leslie, but the driver continued heading east on Eglinton. as the driver approached the stops on eglinton and don mills, the system just kept announcing the upcoming stops, along the streets. Then once the driver got turned around, and back onto the main route, the system just went on with the regular stops. So, the possibility may exist that the system will just say the next stop, if the bus deviates from the route, plus have the route already pre-programmed

[Hybrid0920]

I heard today from a few HSR drivers that bus 0404 was recently involved in an accdent where someone jumped in front of the bus, I'm not sure if the person was seriously hurt or not. Also I heard from the same driver that a 9600 caught fire at barton and wellington, it started in the turbo. Maybe kevin knows about these incidents?

When I was in toronto I took the 505 bus extension to the streetcar and the bus also took a detour, so when it goes on another bus route it automatically changes and displays those stops instead. If the detour goes on turf that isnt used for buses or anything then nothing will be displayed or called out. So for all the buses going downtown, whether upper buses or 1 king, it will most likely be programmed to say ?next stop, downtown?

[Vekoma]

Got my first ride on the new Articulated buses, rode 925 down and 934 up the mountain, both had the new RV smell. I didn't think the engines were alot quieter then any older diesel bus.... but that might have only happened while they were brand new. I noticed that 925 was making an odd clunking noise above the roof at the back, which i didn't notice on 934.

[The Crazy Hybrid]

I heard today from a few HSR drivers that bus 0404 was recently involved in an accdent where someone jumped in front of the bus, I'm not sure if the person was seriously hurt or not. Also I heard from the same driver that a 9600 caught fire at barton and wellington, it started in the turbo. Maybe kevin knows about these incidents?

Yea i heard about that on the radio

The controller said its just people who have nothing in their Skulls

[Wonka]

why do drivers say Overhead down i think its a Code 2?

Malfunctioning route display sign maybe? They'd have to go OOS or write up a card for that, I guess.

Weirdly enough it sounds more like a trolley bus thing.

[Seashore_518203]

"Overhead down" is one of the keys of the old AVLC keypads that were installed in the mid 1980's, back when we had trolley buses. Code 2 took a priority because obviously overhead wires down would significantly impact the service on the street. Nowadays, I believe it is used for passbys. When an operator bypasses a stop because of a full load when people are still left behind, the overhead down lets the controller know about the situation.

There are plenty of other keys on the keypad (route blocked, mechanical out of service, mechanical in service, etc.). I am not an expert on the codes but needless to say there will probably be new codes when the new AVL is up and running.

Bus 0404 was involved in an unfortunate incident. I have not seen the bus but I imagine that it would have a broken windshield. The jumper survived and hopefully will be getting the help that he needs once he is released from the hospital.

As for the stop announcements, it is done on a pattern, route and bus stop level basis. This is different from TTC that uses a "geo-fence" to define bus stops. Both systems have their pluses and minuses. For the TTC method, it could announce the next stop a block away even though it is on a route that turns left at an intersection. Once the bus turns, then it announces the next stop on the street even though the previous stop announced is never actually passed. This system works great for unscheduled detours but can be confusing for routes with multiple patterns.

For HSR's version, the next stop announced will always be the next stop, regardless of route pattern. For express routes, it knows what all the stops are and will only announce the next express stop and not the next local stop. The negative aspect of this system is that it will not handle small detours (deviations due to fire, accidents, temporary construction, etc.). For major detours (like the Cannon route this past spring) all of the revised schedule and pattern info will be input into the computer so it will announce long term detours only if the schedule changes (and thus has to be rebuilt).

As for the 9600 on fire, I did not hear anything. I did hear that it looks like 0604 is a write off and most likely will not be refurbished.

Kevin

[Mishap]

"Overhead down" is one of the keys of the old AVLC keypads that were installed in the mid 1980's, back when we had trolley buses. Code 2 took a priority because obviously overhead wires down would significantly impact the service on the street. Nowadays, I believe it is used for passbys. When an operator bypasses a stop because of a full load when people are still left behind, the overhead down lets the controller know about the situation.

Kind of like how they stopped recording standing loads, and assigned that key to record bike rack usage.

The HSR was not tracking Code 2s through the summer since the AVLC was down. Apparently, they're doing a blitz for a couple weeks, recording every single Code 2 to see just when and where the crushloads are occurring. It sounds like they're trying to prove to the city that the ridership is under-serviced. I'd love to see the results of that IBI study (everyone remember all those ridealong guys with the laptops last fall... they were counting you).

[JN HSR]

As for the 9600 on fire, I did not hear anything. I did hear that it looks like 0604 is a write off and most likely will not be refurbished.

Wow that is very unfortunate to hear about the accident. Hopefully the person involved does get better with the councelling. Did you say that 0604 is a writeoff, or did you mean 0404. Either way that sucks.